Best DC to DC charger for smart alternator

[McCarthy]

What's the best DC to DC charger for the 150 A aftermarket smart alternator in my 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan?

So far I have a 1200 VA Victron inverter delivered and a DIY 12 V 280 Ah LIFEPO4 battery on order.

Would have loved a MultiPlus system but the smaller ones with 1200 VA seem to be all in 230 volt.

I plan to add one 380 Watt solar panel later on in summer, but for now its just that one house battery that needs charging from the alternator.

Any other suggestions? What else will I need? What max Amp can I pull from my alternator?

 

[jwelter99]

So derate the alternator by 25% to get you about 110A.

Then the vehicle needs 20 to 30A to function.

About 70 left.

I would do a Sterling Power B2B BB1260 which is a 60A charger. The next step up is 120A which is too much.

 

[LB3]

Lithium batteries are hard on alternators so try not to use them at idle when there isn’t as much air available to cool them.

My preference is to use a dedicated alternator in a dual alternator setup when charging large battery banks so that burning up an alternator doesn’t leave you stranded.

Nations sells a dual alternator kit for Dodge’s 3.6 gasoline engine Ducato Promaster which might be adaptable to the 3.6 in the Grand Caravan.

 

[fratermus]

There are many DC-DC chargers with smart alternator functionality and configurable (or selectable) setpoints. I don't think any of them is The Best DC-DC charger<tm>.

The 380w panel will likely be nominal 24v. That might rule rule out all the combo dc-dc/mppt units except the Kisae, which tolerates up to 50vdc input and comes in 30/50A ratings. If you will run separate DC-DC and charge controller then of course you have much more flexibility.

I do like @jwelter99's Sterling recommendation for a standalone DC_DC, as Sterling's offerings tend to be highly configurable. Spitballing standalone setups here, ranked as condiments:

• artisanal stone-ground, locally-sourced organic mustard - (~$800) - Morningstar tristar 30A mppt + sterling 60a
• french's yellow (~$450)- Victron gear 100|30 MPPT controller and a 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC
• leftover mustard packets horked from the burger joint (~$270)- 3210A tracer mppt + 40A renogy DC-DC <-- my budget

 

[McCarthy]

Lithium batteries are hard on alternators so try not to use them at idle when there isn’t as much air available to cool them.

My preference is to use a dedicated alternator in a dual alternator setup when charging large battery banks so that burning up an alternator doesn’t leave you stranded.

Nations sells a dual alternator kit for Dodge’s 3.6 gasoline engine Ducato Promaster which might be adaptable to the 3.6 in the Grand Caravan.

Good idea, thank you, but the price is $1,799.95, that's 60% of what I paid for the car. This is only going to be a long weekend camper / beach beater conversion. Spending $360 on the inverter was my healthy middle ground between China junk and a quality 3k inverter. $600 for batteries and $350 for the panel is also ok.

There are many DC-DC chargers with smart alternator functionality and configurable (or selectable) setpoints. I don't think any of them is The Best DC-DC charger<tm>.

The 380w panel will likely be nominal 24v. That might rule rule out all the combo dc-dc/mppt units except the Kisae, which tolerates up to 50vdc input and comes in 30/50A ratings. If you will run separate DC-DC and charge controller then of course you have much more flexibility.

I do like @jwelter99's Sterling recommendation for a standalone DC_DC, as Sterling's offerings tend to be highly configurable. Spitballing standalone setups here, ranked as condiments:

• artisanal stone-ground, locally-sourced organic mustard - (~$800) - Morningstar tristar 30A mppt + sterling 60a
• french's yellow (~$450)- Victron gear 100|30 MPPT controller and a 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC
• leftover mustard packets horked from the burger joint (~$270)- 3210A tracer mppt + 40A renogy DC-DC <-- my budget

I think I'll go with the Victron gear, 100|30 MPPT controller and the 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC. Love the app, quality and customer support.

30 A from the alternator should be no issue for my 150 A alternator. Once I add the 380 W solar panel it should be enough to keep the 280Ah battery topped off.

Will only run a compressor fridge, 2 cabin fans, LEDs, head unit with 11" screen for media playback, charger for laptop / cell phone and a 1000 watt water kettle a couple times a day for like 3 minutes, 12 v water pump. Average driving will be 2 hours a day and the Florida sun will give me plenty of solar energy.

 

[LB3]

Good idea, thank you, but the price is $1,799.95, that's 60% of what I paid for the car. This is only going to be a long weekend camper / beach beater conversion. Spending $360 on the inverter was my healthy middle ground between China junk and a quality 3k inverter. $600 for batteries and $350 for the panel is also ok.

I think you’ve got the right solution for your use case.

 

[jwelter99]

Good idea, thank you, but the price is $1,799.95, that's 60% of what I paid for the car. This is only going to be a long weekend camper / beach beater conversion. Spending $360 on the inverter was my healthy middle ground between China junk and a quality 3k inverter. $600 for batteries and $350 for the panel is also ok.





I think I'll go with the Victron gear, 100|30 MPPT controller and the 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC. Love the app, quality and customer support.

30 A from the alternator should be no issue for my 150 A alternator. Once I add the 380 W solar panel it should be enough to keep the 280Ah battery topped off.

Will only run a compressor fridge, 2 cabin fans, LEDs, head unit with 11" screen for media playback, charger for laptop / cell phone and a 1000 watt water kettle a couple times a day for like 3 minutes, 12 v water pump. Average driving will be 2 hours a day and the Florida sun will give me plenty of solar energy.

Should work good, and if you find you need more B2B charging for your use case you can always parallel another 30A Orion.

 

[deeuubee]

Don't forget to add a couple hundred dollars for the proper gage wire you need to run from the front of your van to the RV to get those amps back there.
Personally, I think a small generator and separate charger would be better than letting your van idle for hours at the beach.
Probably cost about the same.

 

[jwelter99]

Don't forget to add a couple hundred dollars for the proper gage wire you need to run from the front of your van to the RV to get those amps back there.
Personally, I think a small generator and separate charger would be better than letting your van idle for hours at the beach.
Probably cost about the same.

Read the use case the OP mentioned. He's building a beach runner and counting on a ~2 hour commute daily and a lot of solar (Florida) to keep the pack topped up. So getting a bunch out of that 2 hour commute is important. At most beaches running a generator is not allowed; or will at least not make you any friends.

If he can get 630W of solar panels or so and 5 hours of sun in Florida that might even cover the daily consumption and only need a B2B for cloudy days to get some charge done.

 

[McCarthy]

Don't forget to add a couple hundred dollars for the proper gage wire you need to run from the front of your van to the RV to get those amps back there.
Personally, I think a small generator and separate charger would be better than letting your van idle for hours at the beach.
Probably cost about the same.

I got some serious 1/0 wire from Knukonzeptz.





Jwelter is right. It takes me one hour to get to my local beach. One reason why I bought this cheap minivan and why I turn it into a camper. It allows me to stay the entire day at the beach without having to use public restrooms or eating in expensive restaurants.

These beaches are lined with 5 to 30 million dollar mansions. No RVs, dogs, camping, fires, gennies, etc allowed. This minivan counts as a regular car and I get free parking all day long and even can stay over night. Its super stealthy.

 

[jwelter99]

If you want to be really stealthy check out the CIGS flexible panels. It will hurt your total production capacity but a couple of those stick on will not be easily visible so maintains the stealth mode. Probably can get 270, maybe 360W on the roof with them. Will did a review on here on his golf cart.

Put a family kids and dog sticker on the back and nobody will second guess you at a Florida beach

Gorgeous place to spend the day; looks like you are a trader?

 

[McCarthy]

If you want to be really stealthy check out the CIGS flexible panels. It will hurt your total production capacity but a couple of those stick on will not be easily visible so maintains the stealth mode. Probably can get 270, maybe 360W on the roof with them. Will did a review on here on his golf cart.

Put a family kids and dog sticker on the back and nobody will second guess you at a Florida beach

Gorgeous place to spend the day; looks like you are a trader?

I thought about flexible panels but got the impression that they don't work well over time. The van is pretty tall, I can't look over it, standing at 6' 1". I thought about "hiding" a real panel by clamping it between the roof rack (not installed yet), instead of being placed on the rack.

I will also run the setup just with the DC to DC charger for a couple weeks. I use the van for grocery shopping so it gets more charge time than just that 1 hour to and from the beach. Maybe I'll get by without solar. That being said, I really enjoy this project and chances are I will always add things and make changes.

Well, I retired at age 40 (8 years ago) from my own company and live from dividends only. My first trading days started back in 1994, made some money, got out in time when the dot com bubble blew up, was investing long for a long time but with just 30% per anno, and got back into day trading 3 years ago.

Don't need the money, just got bored and trying to beat the system. The market has changed a lot, and we had massive volume and volatility last year. That was easy to trade, but now its very choppy in my segment which happens to be small cap gappers. I trade basically everything that moves 30 plus percent on the day in pre market with the right combo of lower float, high volume and some (BS) news that trigger the needed hype for the day. I only scalp for 1 second to 2 min at a time based on very bullish outbreak patterns.

Granted that style of trading doesn't work in the van let alone on that bad TD / TOS platform. I keep an old laptop flying in the van to keep an eye on daily runners without trading them actively while being out.

This is the real setup at home:

 

[deeuubee]

LOL, totally misread that. I thought he was pulling a small taller with his minivan.
Good find on the wire.
Stealth is good.

Ok, so the generators out.

 

[McCarthy]

So derate the alternator by 25% to get you about 110A.

Then the vehicle needs 20 to 30A to function.

About 70 left.

I would do a Sterling Power B2B BB1260 which is a 60A charger. The next step up is 120A which is too much.

By the way, I tested the Amps being pulled when running the engine, with lights on, high beams on, AC on, heater fan front and rear on max speed, and the head unit on.

Charge was 22 A right after engine start, and dropped down to 7.5 A after about 30 seconds. That's well below 20 to 30 A to function.

Am I missing something? Are "modern" vehicles that low on electricity consumption when running?

 

[deeuubee]

I don't know about other vehicles, but my truck (18' Ram 2500) shows 14.5V/35 amps after start up with nothing on. Once I turned on all the comfy stuff, I'm drawing 96 amps from a 225 amp alternator. Most modern vehicles have temperature compensated alternators. I wouldn't worry too much about burning out the alternator, but then again, I'm not trying to sell you one
I was also hooked up to my trailer through the 7 pin, to see how much it would charge of every low lead acid battery. It showed show 13.08V/6.5 amps back there. That's less than the nominal voltage of the lithium battery, so I can see why you need a DC-DC charger.

I don't know what it shows when the battery was charged.
I didn't let it run that long; I disconnected it and hooked it up to the battery charger.

 

[Kennedyma]

I don't know if it's the best, but I love my Victron Orion-Tr Smart charger. It senses when to turn on correctly and was super easy to install. Best of all it keeps my 60AH house batter in my Wrangler topped off perfectly.

 

[McCarthy]

I don't know if it's the best, but I love my Victron Orion-Tr Smart charger. It senses when to turn on correctly and was super easy to install. Best of all it keeps my 60AH house batter in my Wrangler topped off perfectly.

There are many DC-DC chargers with smart alternator functionality and configurable (or selectable) setpoints. I don't think any of them is The Best DC-DC charger<tm>.

The 380w panel will likely be nominal 24v. That might rule rule out all the combo dc-dc/mppt units except the Kisae, which tolerates up to 50vdc input and comes in 30/50A ratings. If you will run separate DC-DC and charge controller then of course you have much more flexibility.

I do like @jwelter99's Sterling recommendation for a standalone DC_DC, as Sterling's offerings tend to be highly configurable. Spitballing standalone setups here, ranked as condiments:

• artisanal stone-ground, locally-sourced organic mustard - (~$800) - Morningstar tristar 30A mppt + sterling 60a
• french's yellow (~$450)- Victron gear 100|30 MPPT controller and a 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC
• leftover mustard packets horked from the burger joint (~$270)- 3210A tracer mppt + 40A renogy DC-DC <-- my budget

So do I need the insulated version of the Victron 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC charger, since my alternator is "smart", aka output being controlled by the vehicle computer? I'd hate having to pull another wire through the firewall for ground.

This is what Victron shows:

New Product: Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger - Victron Energy

The new Orion-Tr Smart DC-DC charger is designed for use in dual battery systems in vehicles or boats, where the (smart) alternator and the start battery are used to charge the service battery. The model range is suitable for 12V or 24V systems, and both lead acid and lithium batteries. Why do...

www.victronenergy.com

 

[DJSmiley]

By the way, I tested the Amps being pulled when running the engine, with lights on, high beams on, AC on, heater fan front and rear on max speed, and the head unit on.

Charge was 22 A right after engine start, and dropped down to 7.5 A after about 30 seconds. That's well below 20 to 30 A to function.

Am I missing something? Are "modern" vehicles that low on electricity consumption when running?


View attachment 45937

This looks like a short 22A draw from the battery, and now 7.5A towards the battery (notice the - on the peak). A clamp meter is directional.

Seems you're measuring at the battery. So the current indicated is the flow from/to the battery.

With the engine running, the alternator provides current. You only see the sum of the alternator current (which it delivers) and the used current by the car itself.

If the alternator provides 50A, and the car uses 40A for lights, fans and so on, your measurement will read 10A into the battery (charging)

If you really want to know the cars usage, you need to check both the alternator output and the current from/to the battery and add those.

50A alternator, 10A into the battery -> Actual used current is 40A

 

[mikefitz]

Use either the isolated or non isolated (lower cost) and connect the negative to vehicle body. ( vehicle battery negative and alternative negative will be connected to chassis).
Expect up to 35 amps output and 35 to 40 amps input, ( although nominally a 30 amp unit it's actually rated at 400 watts so current depends on battery state).

Mike

 

[fratermus]

do I need the insulated version of the Victron 30A Orion Tr-Smart DC-DC charger

Caveat: I am not qualified but I have an opinion.

* AFAIK most DC-DC on the market are non-isolated and have no issues with smart alternator functionality. Smart alt compliance typically means watching for the weird voltages "smart" alts put out.
* the Victron descriptions of the isolated version do list smart alternator functionality as bullet points, and non-isolated do not, but....
* the Victron manual linked from the non-isolated version describe setup for smart alternators

Until someone chimes in to the contrary, I'll assume the non-isolated version is fine for normal mortals who do not run exotic (marine, multi-ground, multi-voltage) configurations. "Generally speaking, one only needs to isolate the negatives when the installation does not share a common negative return path, such as may be the case on many fiberglass boats that don't have a chassis and may not have a common grounding bus to which all their battery banks connect." -- source

More info in this post by @gnubie, and on the Victron community forum.