Best inverter to uplink low budget genny ?

[Bossman253]

Folks do you have idea what solution inverter is less sensitive for connecting low budget genny 1F to AC in to charge batteries only?

This one ?

https://aliexpress.com/item/1005006369526374.html

Genny has AVR only without inverter 4000w

 

[DIYrich]

Chargeverter

 

[wpns]

Another vote for ChargeVerter, as long as your generator is 240V. At 120V you only get about half power out of it (2500W?).

 

[Crowz]

Chargeverter. Definite game changer when it comes to charging batteries back up. Run the generator for an hour or so and then back to running on the batteries.

 

[Bossman253]

Got problem on putting Chargeverter charge batteries when Inverter is connected

 

[Crowz]

Got problem on putting Chargeverter charge batteries when Inverter is connected

What kind of problem? That's exactly how my system is setup.

 

[wpns]

Got problem on putting Chargeverter charge batteries when Inverter is connected

You can't do closed loop on both at the same time, but closed loop with the inverter and open loop with the CV makes a lot of sense.

I currently just float the batteries to 52V (apron 25%) with the CV, but will be using my inverter's Generator contacts to enable the grid power into the CV, or a relay from the Raspberry Pi...

 

[Bossman253]

You can't do closed loop on both at the same time, but closed loop with the inverter and open loop with the CV makes a lot of sense.

I currently just float the batteries to 52V (apron 25%) with the CV, but will be using my inverter's Generator contacts to enable the grid power into the CV, or a relay from the Raspberry Pi...

So Inverter with BMS is the way to go, and CV without communication, just set it manually to charge at certian levels ect. Right ?

Your second paragraph, can you explain in more detail how you will manage to do it ? And more detail ?. You will connect Grid to generator socket in inverter and pass grid to CV?

 

[wpns]

So Inverter with BMS is the way to go, and CV without communication, just set it manually to charge at certian levels ect. Right ?

Correct. There {may, should, might} be workarounds, but nothing definite available today.

Your second paragraph, can you explain in more detail how you will manage to do it ? And more detail ?. You will connect Grid to generator socket in inverter and pass grid to CV?

Yeah, sorry, that was a bit brief. There are several options, depending on your requirements, skills, and available parts:

1) Connect the CV AC input to the grid. Leave the power on 24x7. Set the CV output to 52V (which is very approximately 25 percent charge on a 16S "48V" LFP battery). The 25% setting gives you some margin for power failures, and lets the solar system charge the batteries. Easy to do, but can be optimized below.

2) Connect the CV AC input to the grid through a relay. I used https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FCJFGL9 but anything that will carry the current and have a manageable coil voltage and available power supply. Use the inverter's "Generator Dry Contact" to power that relay whenever you want. For instance, when the SOC drops to 25%, the inverter "turns on the generator". When the SOC reaches 75%, it "turns off the generator".

3) Set the CV output voltage to 'fully charged', whatever that is for your battery system. Feed the CV Relay power in 2) above through some combination of computer-controlled relays and the inverter's "Generator Dry Contact". I'm going to be using https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081RM7PMY connected to a Raspberry Pi that's already connected to the inverters for polling them for Modbus data. Wire things up so if the computer fails (or you unplug the USB to the dual relay), it'll default to Inverter Generator Dry Contact as at 2) above. Python code is trivial, though in my case the computer already is polling for Modbus data so it 'knows' SOC. Now you can get arbitrarily complex: "If the battery drops below some SOC based on load, environmental conditions, time till sunrise, expected solar power production based on weather, etc, turn on the CV until we reach 'some other condition'. If there's a hurricane coming, fully charge the batteries till the power fails. Modify rules based on house occupancy, etc.

4) Add 3-way toggle switch to 3) above for manual On-Off-Auto control as desired.

I'm currently at stage 1.5 above, and will be taking the parts down to implement the rest this fall. Your mileage WILL vary, and since this is a DIY forum, feel free to do anything else. Feel free to ask for clarification, and keep us up to date on your journey!

Since my CVs are plugged into the grid after the relays, it's trivial to fire up the generators, plug the CVs into the generators, and run them till they are out of fuel, which should(?) give me 10(?) KWHR of battery charge per tank of fuel for each of my two EU3000 generators.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Generally, LF inverters can eat high-THD power from non-inverter-gens. My Magnum 4024 eats crummy power all day long, so I can use an inexpensive high-THD output open-frame gen to recharge the battery-bank.

AIO's (HF inverters) are more sensitive to THD, and therefore more restrictive; usually the solution is an inverter-gen for an AIO. It's the inverter user guide that specifies what kind of power it will eat for recharging. You'll just have to get at the user guide or manual for the proposed inverter, and see what it specifies ... no sense in doing something to bypass the user guide's requirements, if that then voids inverter warranty.

Chargeverter is a solution for both LF and HF inverters, because the chargeverter is a "take crummy high-THD output power from a crummy gen, and clean it up, and charge a battery directly with the cleaned up *DC* power".

On the generator side, just use low-THD types of generators ... these are inverter-gens (all of which have clean power output), or open-frame gens that are also inverter output, or open-frame gens with very low THD output (Westinghouse wgen11500tfc, for example).

Hope this helps ...

 

[Bossman253]

Correct. There {may, should, might} be workarounds, but nothing definite available today.

Yeah, sorry, that was a bit brief. There are several options, depending on your requirements, skills, and available parts:

1) Connect the CV AC input to the grid. Leave the power on 24x7. Set the CV output to 52V (which is very approximately 25 percent charge on a 16S "48V" LFP battery). The 25% setting gives you some margin for power failures, and lets the solar system charge the batteries. Easy to do, but can be optimized below.

2) Connect the CV AC input to the grid through a relay. I used https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FCJFGL9 but anything that will carry the current and have a manageable coil voltage and available power supply. Use the inverter's "Generator Dry Contact" to power that relay whenever you want. For instance, when the SOC drops to 25%, the inverter "turns on the generator". When the SOC reaches 75%, it "turns off the generator".

3) Set the CV output voltage to 'fully charged', whatever that is for your battery system. Feed the CV Relay power in 2) above through some combination of computer-controlled relays and the inverter's "Generator Dry Contact". I'm going to be using https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B081RM7PMY connected to a Raspberry Pi that's already connected to the inverters for polling them for Modbus data. Wire things up so if the computer fails (or you unplug the USB to the dual relay), it'll default to Inverter Generator Dry Contact as at 2) above. Python code is trivial, though in my case the computer already is polling for Modbus data so it 'knows' SOC. Now you can get arbitrarily complex: "If the battery drops below some SOC based on load, environmental conditions, time till sunrise, expected solar power production based on weather, etc, turn on the CV until we reach 'some other condition'. If there's a hurricane coming, fully charge the batteries till the power fails. Modify rules based on house occupancy, etc.

4) Add 3-way toggle switch to 3) above for manual On-Off-Auto control as desired.

I'm currently at stage 1.5 above, and will be taking the parts down to implement the rest this fall. Your mileage WILL vary, and since this is a DIY forum, feel free to do anything else. Feel free to ask for clarification, and keep us up to date on your journey!

Since my CVs are plugged into the grid after the relays, it's trivial to fire up the generators, plug the CVs into the generators, and run them till they are out of fuel, which should(?) give me 10(?) KWHR of battery charge per tank of fuel for each of my two EU3000 generators.

Thanks for presenting me your logic

What kind of problem? That's exactly how my system is setup.

The problem is that, i have deye inverter in the system, and deye support are telling me that connecting charger to batteries in system where their inverter is connected is no way to go as i am putting something behind inverter and as they say things should be connected infront inverter.

Since i am offgrid totally now and in winter i need heat cables for water pipes connected all the time i cant disconnect batteries from inverter when charging with CV, inverter need to have power all the time so heat cables could be warm all the time.

I am struggling bit, to do it in proper way, generator is 1phase and deye inverter 3phase, genny needs to be utilized for sure, but how to do it to not break warranty…

There is also solution to put another inverter to gen port and change it to AUX mode if i remember correcly, that way that second inverter can pass AC grid to deye. Maybe do it like this,

1p Enji 6.2kw Inverter, with connected chargeverter as battery to it, and when i turn generator on it will then switch on and convert DC to AC and deye will get Good AC to charge batteries. I know its way complicated but then i am not doing anything that they say dont do it.

 

[wpns]

i have deye inverter in the system, and deye support are telling me that connecting charger to batteries in system where their inverter is connected is no way to go as i am putting something behind inverter and as they say things should be connected infront inverter.

Again, they are just plain wrong.

 

[agtcovert]

Again, they sre just plain wrong.

To add a bit more context -- I have an extra Victron MPPT controller connected on the shared bus. It's just another charger that pushes electrons. A Chargverter or ... 10 just feed in power if it's needed.

Watch this for Chargeverters at scale:

. And those are tied in with a pair of SolArk 12K's (which are Deye's):

Hope that helps. Deye is full of it.

 

[Crowz]

Its a battery charger. Nothing more.

Any place you would use a 48v battery charger the chargeverter will work. So if you want to charge a 48v battery you connect the chargeverter to the battery. It doesn't matter if you have a eg4, sungold, srne, maytag or whatever inverter it will work just fine with it since all the thing does is charge the battery. Any company that tells you otherwise is on crack.

 

[Bossman253]

Its a battery charger. Nothing more.

Any place you would use a 48v battery charger the chargeverter will work. So if you want to charge a 48v battery you connect the chargeverter to the battery. It doesn't matter if you have a eg4, sungold, srne, maytag or whatever inverter it will work just fine with it since all the thing does is charge the battery. Any company that tells you otherwise is on crack.

They dont say that CV will not work. They just say that Having deye connected when CV is charging is a bad idea?, but why they say that i dont know.

I wonder how to make Deye not charging batteries when CV is charging. It would eliminate potential problems?.

 

[Bossman253]

To add a bit more context -- I have an extra Victron MPPT controller connected on the shared bus. It's just another charger that pushes electrons. A Chargverter or ... 10 just feed in power if it's needed.

Watch this for Chargeverters at scale:

. And those are tied in with a pair of SolArk 12K's (which are Deye's):

Hope that helps. Deye is full of it.

Where is he showing his inverter ?