Best Micro Hydro turbine
- Thread starter PeSCaLo
- Start date
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I have really liked the Watter-Buddy I installed... But since I take it down when I leave the cabin it only has about 3 months on it...... so I can't say if it has long reliability or not.
Watter Buddy - Energy Systems & Design
Our Products Features Pricing Manuals Output Charts This little machine generates DC power from a source such as a stream running down a hillside. Water is channelled into a pipeline with enough drop (head) to build up sufficient pressure. It can also be used with water systems that are under...
microhydropower.com
MisterSandals
Participation Medalist
I would love to see a pic of this in place and running if you have one.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
This is probably the best pic. You can see the water coming out the bottom.
The Watter Buddy is mounted on a sheet of ABS. The ABS is held down with a couple of anchors driven into the boulders.
The brass valve is a temporary 'plug' till I got a pressure meter to go there. It runs along nicely at 30PSI creating ~117W 24x7.
Here you can see a broader view. The penstock pipe takes a shortcut across a bend in the creek and meets back up with the creek uphill.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
So... 30 psi is some two bars which means a 20-metre drop, right?
And how many litres per minute are needed?
Sorry for using metric units, but it's what I use and they are easier to convert.
.
And how many litres per minute are needed?
Sorry for using metric units, but it's what I use and they are easier to convert.
.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
Yes. 20 Meters is about right. (I only have a crude measurement of 60ft for the height.)
Sorry.... I don't know the volume
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
I don't get an alert. I have worked with that company for several years and never had a problem with the web site.
This is what it says on the page.
I'll attach the manuals (I have the low-volume version).
Here are the flow charts for the Low volume version.
I use the 24V version with 7mm nozzles so the charts would imply it is using ~.7L/s
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
BTW: Since those pictures were taken I made two changes to make it easier to setup and takedown.
1) I added a valve to the 3" pipe.
2) I added an Anderson connector to the power lines.
1) I added a valve to the 3" pipe.
2) I added an Anderson connector to the power lines.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Great!
I'll have to do some thinking, but... say you had a decent stream of ground-level water and no drop (flat land).
You could, first find out how much you can raise it before it runs dry.
Then, dig a hole/trench/something to get the head to, say, ten metres (30') and stick your turbine at the bottom. More if you can, obviously.
Then you'd have to have a way to "vent" the water (pressure) from that - that doesn't involve pumping it :·)
I guess you can cascade multiple turbines. But then, even if you can get as little as 100W running 24/7, hey.
I'll have to do some thinking, but... say you had a decent stream of ground-level water and no drop (flat land).
You could, first find out how much you can raise it before it runs dry.
Then, dig a hole/trench/something to get the head to, say, ten metres (30') and stick your turbine at the bottom. More if you can, obviously.
Then you'd have to have a way to "vent" the water (pressure) from that - that doesn't involve pumping it :·)
I guess you can cascade multiple turbines. But then, even if you can get as little as 100W running 24/7, hey.
@FilterGuy Thanks for showing us your setup.
I’m well versed in solar setups. But just starting on Hydro.
Could you explain the difference in setup vs solar, Rectifyer, charge controller, all-in one.
Specially the Dump load has me confused, since there is no such thing in solar.
Im in the tropics, we get 9 months of constant rain + creeks.
thanks
I’m well versed in solar setups. But just starting on Hydro.
Could you explain the difference in setup vs solar, Rectifyer, charge controller, all-in one.
Specially the Dump load has me confused, since there is no such thing in solar.
Im in the tropics, we get 9 months of constant rain + creeks.
thanks
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
Let's start with dump load. What is it and why it is needed?
On solar, when the batteries are full, the controller just shuts down the current flow and no further energy is produced.
On all turbines (water or wind), if the output is open corcuit, the generator produces no (or very little) resistance to spin. This means the turbine will spin much faster. This is called free-wheeling. This faster spin will, at a minimum, cause faster wear on the bearings. In the worst case, the turbine will spin so fast things start to break and it will destroy itself. Most wind turbines will destroy themselves in high wind if they are free-wheeling. Some water turbines can free-wheel without immediate damage, but it will always be hard on the bearings. (Bearings are often the first thing to go out on a turbine)
To prevent the damage of free-wheeling, the turbine should *always* be running under load. However, when the batteries are full, there is no place to put the energy so it gets routed to a 'dump load' to burn off as heat. Dump loads are usually banks of high wattage resistors. However, some people will do things like heat water with the excess load.
Unfortunately, the options for charge controllers that will enable a dump load are limited. The best controller for managing a dump load is probably the Midnite Solar 'Classic' series. If you really want to go first class, a Midnite Classic pared with a Midnight Clipper will give very fine-grain control over the dump load process. Schneider has the C30 and C60 controllers that can control a dump load.... but I am not a fan of those controllers. I am not aware of an ALL-in-one that has a PV input that would work well with a dump load.
Interestingly, the concept of MPPT has an analog with turbines. For a given pressure and flow (or wind speed) through the turbine, there is a voltage-current combination that will generate the most power. Consequently, a controller can adjust the current it allows through till it finds the correct voltage-current for the max power.
The Watter buddy has an integrated rectifier, so it outputs a rectified signal, but most wind and hydro turbines output a 3phase AC signal that must be put through a rectifier circuit before use in the rest of the system. These are 'simply' a set of bridge diodes that convert the AC to pulsed DC. (Warning, some of the rectifiers sold are only half-wave rectifiers... be sure to get a full-wave rectifier.)
On solar, when the batteries are full, the controller just shuts down the current flow and no further energy is produced.
On all turbines (water or wind), if the output is open corcuit, the generator produces no (or very little) resistance to spin. This means the turbine will spin much faster. This is called free-wheeling. This faster spin will, at a minimum, cause faster wear on the bearings. In the worst case, the turbine will spin so fast things start to break and it will destroy itself. Most wind turbines will destroy themselves in high wind if they are free-wheeling. Some water turbines can free-wheel without immediate damage, but it will always be hard on the bearings. (Bearings are often the first thing to go out on a turbine)
To prevent the damage of free-wheeling, the turbine should *always* be running under load. However, when the batteries are full, there is no place to put the energy so it gets routed to a 'dump load' to burn off as heat. Dump loads are usually banks of high wattage resistors. However, some people will do things like heat water with the excess load.
Unfortunately, the options for charge controllers that will enable a dump load are limited. The best controller for managing a dump load is probably the Midnite Solar 'Classic' series. If you really want to go first class, a Midnite Classic pared with a Midnight Clipper will give very fine-grain control over the dump load process. Schneider has the C30 and C60 controllers that can control a dump load.... but I am not a fan of those controllers. I am not aware of an ALL-in-one that has a PV input that would work well with a dump load.
Interestingly, the concept of MPPT has an analog with turbines. For a given pressure and flow (or wind speed) through the turbine, there is a voltage-current combination that will generate the most power. Consequently, a controller can adjust the current it allows through till it finds the correct voltage-current for the max power.
The Watter buddy has an integrated rectifier, so it outputs a rectified signal, but most wind and hydro turbines output a 3phase AC signal that must be put through a rectifier circuit before use in the rest of the system. These are 'simply' a set of bridge diodes that convert the AC to pulsed DC. (Warning, some of the rectifiers sold are only half-wave rectifiers... be sure to get a full-wave rectifier.)
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
I wonder why one would "waste" any effort on solar if they had access to hydro. :·)
Hydro is the Holy Grail of alternative/renewable energies. It runs 24/7, if you have a real river/creek with water all year round, it never runs out, you don't get cloudy days, windless ones, it's pretty much constant. Now, for a creek you also need a hill. The more "head" (drop) you have, the more pressure you can get. The more pressure, the more power you can generate.
If you don't have a hill but have a good flow of water, a water wheel - or more than one - can generate pretty much any amount of energy. If it can turn a flour mill... :·)
A dump load switch would be very simple to make, wouldn't it? Just a voltage-controlled one that drives a relay/mosfet.
P.S. Lovely place Panama. My son lived in Gamboa for a couple of years (he's a biologist). He's told me a lot about it.
Hi @Don B. Cilly
Thanks for the head’s up.
Im considering this for my remote land. I wish to make a cabin, to be able to take my wife and kids for over the weekend sleepovers.
For that I need A/C 24/7 while we are there, toilet & shower water and sewage.
I only have small creeks 6-9 months of the year with 300-400 ft head. one option is to drill for water, but that’s expensive. Another is to dam a section of the creek and make a pond. With the heavy rains, it should be enough water for 12 months hydro. Also expensive.
I just feel solar is simpler, and with eve 300 ah, I can have a system setup for $5000.00
Thanks for the head’s up.
Im considering this for my remote land. I wish to make a cabin, to be able to take my wife and kids for over the weekend sleepovers.
For that I need A/C 24/7 while we are there, toilet & shower water and sewage.
I only have small creeks 6-9 months of the year with 300-400 ft head. one option is to drill for water, but that’s expensive. Another is to dam a section of the creek and make a pond. With the heavy rains, it should be enough water for 12 months hydro. Also expensive.
I just feel solar is simpler, and with eve 300 ah, I can have a system setup for $5000.00
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
yup..... micro-hydro requires unique conditions that are not available in most situations.
You could pump it back up during the day
I am building one in the back yard
Your concept, even with pumping out, is worth further consideration beyond the probable 3 times cost of LiFePO4.
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
Well, according to FilterGuy's tables, a 300' head would far exceed the 100 PSI maximum, it would (should) give you 300W - constant.
Use two turbines, 600W. Put that on top of solar, day and night, sun or clouds... if I had something like that...
Use two turbines, 600W. Put that on top of solar, day and night, sun or clouds... if I had something like that...
Don B. Cilly
Energetic energy padawan
... or whenever I have excess power.
That's a great idea, it's micro-pumped-hydro storage.
Say - from above tables - half a litre a minute, 30 an hour, 24 hours' supply 720 litres, a 1000 litre water tank is some €250.
You could even do it without the creek...
Oh wait. it's litres per second, innit :·/
You'd need some 40 cubic metres of tank. No, you would need the creek, and even then, pumping all that water back up to it... one would have to work it out, it might have some merit.
FilterGuy
Solar Engineering Consultant - EG4 and Consumers
Oh man...... That was 5 or 6 years ago and I did not keep records. I do notice the watter buddy seems a lot more expensive than it did.
Similar threads
