I purchased mine new from Amazon, biggest mistake I ever made. Really wish I had installed and used it within the Amazon refund window! It is now my life journey to make sure noone else wastes $4k on this garbage!
BestSun Powerwall
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I was asked by a home owner with this unit to analyze this unit that did not function as wanted. As a commercial electrician I must inform the client of the bad and ugly that i see, and when i looked it over and told him the obvious, its not legal here (in the US) and not safe as is. Its euro /asia style wiring and not compatible with North America Power I had to inform him that as a result of it not being listed as tested to UL standards and therefore not legal which automatically gives your insurance company a valid reason to deny a claim.
It was his decision to scrap the unit and i was offered it for my consulting fee.
I retired from American Industry so i know quality when i see it.
It was his decision to scrap the unit and i was offered it for my consulting fee.
I retired from American Industry so i know quality when i see it.
What i think is more criminal than some guy in a garage shop in guangdong china bolting togather krap like this is a huge company like Amazon fronting this as if its legal here.. They avoid any liability for keerap by selling a storefront....they dont sell the product..This should not be sold in the US to anyone, I do not see any agency approval statements at all
so what did you have to do with the remains of the unit and curious as to where you are located and how you dealt with 230 volts in and out
Hello Tecnodave,
Your analysis is very helpful. I actually purchased the Fution Power Wall on Amazon last year and installed it on a 45 ft boat. Our mechanics/electrician used a 110/240 transformer to make it work. The power in is just taken from the grid directly for 240V. Because it is on a boat and is not being charged and discharged daily, it works for us so far. But we do have minor issues. I wonder whether you can offer your insights since you already took one apart. I will take all the precautions since I know this machine is not safe or UL listed. So I will not leave it being charged unattended and has to be vigilant on what is going on with the machine. Thank you.
Your analysis is very helpful. I actually purchased the Fution Power Wall on Amazon last year and installed it on a 45 ft boat. Our mechanics/electrician used a 110/240 transformer to make it work. The power in is just taken from the grid directly for 240V. Because it is on a boat and is not being charged and discharged daily, it works for us so far. But we do have minor issues. I wonder whether you can offer your insights since you already took one apart. I will take all the precautions since I know this machine is not safe or UL listed. So I will not leave it being charged unattended and has to be vigilant on what is going on with the machine. Thank you.
@shangribu
First look under the right bottom of the cabinet and you will see a white handled circuit breaker there labeled DC BREAKER check the label on that breaker, if it is the same as mine rated for 230 volts AC and NO rating for DC.
AC breakers are not designed for DC and will arc and burst into flames on a overload situation. This is extremely dangerous as all the power of the batteries will be shorted to arc in that breaker......A plain old fast blow fuse would be much better but a much better solution is a true DC rated breaker such as the MidNite Solar MNDC breaker which is really a Carlingswitch D series breaker, <EDIT Ancor Marine also is a Carlingswitch breaker rebranded > Just be sure rated for 72 volts or so....and rated for “DC”.....off shore sh** probably does not have a high enough rating. Many are 12/24 volt only.
OK That is what could burn you down.......change that breaker
On to the cells......I have never seen cells like this in a consumer product...They are aluminized plastic foil pouches, with no outer housing. I have pulled open a few dead LFP cells and they had several pouches like these but they were encased, in a glued plastic housing that can contain a ruptured cell, these are just the pouches with no containment.
Someone else posted in another thread that i have on this unit that speaks of a burst cell and the release of toxic gasses in a housing situation.
Not Good.......toxic gasses while you sleep anyone?
The BMS in the unit is the cheapest, wimpiest, Daly unit that i have ever seen, characters all in chinese
Do i wanna trust that?....
I scrapped my unit and will use the cells reconfigured for 24 volt to use with my existing system using better BMS’s and my existing charge controllers and inverter/charger.
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Hello Tecnodave,
Thank you for all the advice. I have taken the photos of the inside of the machine. I am not an expert on this stuff so I don't know whether the machine I have has the wrong DC breakers. This is the only white breaker on the bottom of the machine. I know this breaker if turned "ON" is to supply the inverter with 240V power to charge the battery. So is this breaker for AC power? Why does it need to have DC rating?
Our electrician also put another 30 amp breaker outside of Fution so only when we turn the outside breaker on there is 240V power going to the Fution. When I turn this white breaker on, Fution would start charging the battery from the grid. I also took a video of the bottom of the breaker because the machine is mounted and there is limited space on the bottom the phone cannot focus well with the photo and the video is a bit blurry as well but the label can be read.
Thank you for all the advice. I have taken the photos of the inside of the machine. I am not an expert on this stuff so I don't know whether the machine I have has the wrong DC breakers. This is the only white breaker on the bottom of the machine. I know this breaker if turned "ON" is to supply the inverter with 240V power to charge the battery. So is this breaker for AC power? Why does it need to have DC rating?
Our electrician also put another 30 amp breaker outside of Fution so only when we turn the outside breaker on there is 240V power going to the Fution. When I turn this white breaker on, Fution would start charging the battery from the grid. I also took a video of the bottom of the breaker because the machine is mounted and there is limited space on the bottom the phone cannot focus well with the photo and the video is a bit blurry as well but the label can be read.
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The white breaker IS THE DC BATTERY BREAKER. It is not the AC input breaker, it is not rated for DC. It is rated for 230 volts AC.......IT IS NOT RATED FOR DC.....the wire coming from it goes directly to the battery....it is not in the AC input! It does not protect the input of the inverter, It DOES NOT SWITCH OFF THE AC.................
NOT IF AND OR BUTT....... AC BREAKERS BURST INTO FLAMES WHEN OVERLOADED ON DC
Pictures........#1 bottom of cabinet where the white DC BREAKER IS LOCATED
#2 the AC rated breaker used on the battery
#3 the AC breaker which is located on the lower left corner of the inverter/charger unit which is located on the right side of the unit. It is not accessable to the outside of the unit
A 30 amp breaker AC input breaker DOES NOT protect a 15 amp rated unit.......The proper breaker is a 15 amp 2 pole breaker
If you value your life and property change that breaker.......
NOT IF AND OR BUTT....... AC BREAKERS BURST INTO FLAMES WHEN OVERLOADED ON DC
Pictures........#1 bottom of cabinet where the white DC BREAKER IS LOCATED
#2 the AC rated breaker used on the battery
#3 the AC breaker which is located on the lower left corner of the inverter/charger unit which is located on the right side of the unit. It is not accessable to the outside of the unit
A 30 amp breaker AC input breaker DOES NOT protect a 15 amp rated unit.......The proper breaker is a 15 amp 2 pole breaker
If you value your life and property change that breaker.......
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Thank you for the quick reply. I just try to understand how it works. When I turn this breaker on and if the breaker we have outside the Fution is "ON", the battery starts charging if there is the grid power in. How could this breaker go directly to the battery not the inverter?
Open it up and LOOK at the wiring.....
If you know soo much just why are you asking me....
AGAIN THE WHITE BREAKER DOES NOT CONTROL THE AC INPUT....IT IS THE DC BATTERY BREAKER , IF YOU TURN OFF THE BATTERY BREAKER THE BATTERY WILL NOT CHARGE....PERIOD...THE INVERTER WILL NOT COME ON
If you know soo much just why are you asking me....
AGAIN THE WHITE BREAKER DOES NOT CONTROL THE AC INPUT....IT IS THE DC BATTERY BREAKER , IF YOU TURN OFF THE BATTERY BREAKER THE BATTERY WILL NOT CHARGE....PERIOD...THE INVERTER WILL NOT COME ON
There are 2 pouches in each of those plastic frames, its very difficult to see but if you look very closely at the copper bars that connect the cells you may see that, These are listed by the manufacturer (Best Sun) as 100 a.h. cells but the part number refers to a (123 company) 50 amp hour pouch cell for e.v. use. SOO.....this is very likely not a 200 amp hour battery.
There are three versions of this unit offered , a12 volt unit at 2.56 k.w. , a 24 volt unit at 5.12 k.w. and a 48 volt unit at 10.24 k.w. Which version do you have? <EDIT.....if you have 32 cells you have the 48 volt unit>
I have posted on several forums and no one admits to seeing or having or digging into one of these so I probably have more experience with this unit than most have.
I did 30 plus years in Electrical Engineering and Power Management for huge multi-national corporations so I have just a tad bit of experience there. Masters in the subject....as in MSEE...and licensed by both the state and the feds.
As i know better there is some liability for me in the accuracy in what i recommend so i don't just say something without knowing what i am saying. There are a lot of Liars...strike that....Lawyers out there that swoop in for a buck at any opportunity
There are three versions of this unit offered , a12 volt unit at 2.56 k.w. , a 24 volt unit at 5.12 k.w. and a 48 volt unit at 10.24 k.w. Which version do you have? <EDIT.....if you have 32 cells you have the 48 volt unit>
I have posted on several forums and no one admits to seeing or having or digging into one of these so I probably have more experience with this unit than most have.
I did 30 plus years in Electrical Engineering and Power Management for huge multi-national corporations so I have just a tad bit of experience there. Masters in the subject....as in MSEE...and licensed by both the state and the feds.
As i know better there is some liability for me in the accuracy in what i recommend so i don't just say something without knowing what i am saying. There are a lot of Liars...strike that....Lawyers out there that swoop in for a buck at any opportunity
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@shangribu ,
Much more info on this unit can be found on several threads here and other forums, mostly by myself but others are chiming in.
DIY FORUM:
FUTION BATTERY
BEST SUN POWERWALL
200 amp hour POUCH CELLS
MIDNITE FORUM:
batteries:lithium: 200 amp hour pouch cells
SOLAR-ELECTRIC FORUM:
200 a.h. pouch cells
There is no one out there that will admit to opening up one of these and taking a good look, I have!
Much more info on this unit can be found on several threads here and other forums, mostly by myself but others are chiming in.
DIY FORUM:
FUTION BATTERY
BEST SUN POWERWALL
200 amp hour POUCH CELLS
MIDNITE FORUM:
batteries:lithium: 200 amp hour pouch cells
SOLAR-ELECTRIC FORUM:
200 a.h. pouch cells
There is no one out there that will admit to opening up one of these and taking a good look, I have!
I bought this one as 48V 10KWh. If each pouch cell is 200 a.h., this one looks like 4 per block and there are all together 4 blocks in this machine, it means the total amount is more like 3.2 KWh?
There are 2 cells in each plastic frame, 4 frames in each block, and 4 blocks in the unit so there are a total of 32 pouches arranged as 2P16S.....thats 2 in parallel then 16 of those in series.....
If Best Sun is correct then this is a 200 a.h. battery which is 10.24 kwh but you cannot run the battery dead so the real usable capacity is more like 7.68 k.w.h.
If they really are 50 a.h. cell pouches as the part number indicates then this is really a 100 a.h. battery which is 5.12 k.w.h. but usable is about 3.84 k.w.h.
Its best to use the power between 20% and 95% charge on a lithium battery for longest life. Using 100% capacity will drastically reduce battery life.
Go research the part number on the cells......it repeatedly comes back to A123 battery pouch cell 50 a.h. 3.2 volt for e.v. use, It is not rated for battery backup use.
The number on the cell is WX32I3250
note the 5th character is an I not a 1
Please note.....NOBODY ......has advertised a 200 amp pouch cell....the largest that i have seen any literature on is the 70 amp pouch cell from A123 systems for e.v. use, Im not saying that it is not possible, no one on the internet is advertising a 100 a.h. pouch cell much less a 200 a.h. pouch cell. There are 200 a.h. prisimatic cells but these have multiple pouches within the prismatic outer housing which is the preferred consumer packaging.
If Best Sun is correct then this is a 200 a.h. battery which is 10.24 kwh but you cannot run the battery dead so the real usable capacity is more like 7.68 k.w.h.
If they really are 50 a.h. cell pouches as the part number indicates then this is really a 100 a.h. battery which is 5.12 k.w.h. but usable is about 3.84 k.w.h.
Its best to use the power between 20% and 95% charge on a lithium battery for longest life. Using 100% capacity will drastically reduce battery life.
Go research the part number on the cells......it repeatedly comes back to A123 battery pouch cell 50 a.h. 3.2 volt for e.v. use, It is not rated for battery backup use.
The number on the cell is WX32I3250
note the 5th character is an I not a 1
Please note.....NOBODY ......has advertised a 200 amp pouch cell....the largest that i have seen any literature on is the 70 amp pouch cell from A123 systems for e.v. use, Im not saying that it is not possible, no one on the internet is advertising a 100 a.h. pouch cell much less a 200 a.h. pouch cell. There are 200 a.h. prisimatic cells but these have multiple pouches within the prismatic outer housing which is the preferred consumer packaging.
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Here is a picture of the partially disassembled unit showing the inverter/charger chassis sitting on top of the Fution outer casing. The black box on top is the inverter/charger....look on the far left at the black button circuit breaker...THAT is the AC input breaker and is labeled as such.......look on the white box under the inverter chassis.....that is the fution battery box....the white breaker is clearly labeled .....”DC BREAKER” this connects between the battery and the inverter/charger
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Thank you for all the helpful information. I actually have questions outside of Fusion. I currently have three running solar/battery systems and am planning installing a fourth one on another property. Since you said you do consulting work, can I contact you about that? My email is shangribu@netzero.net. Thanks.
Posting in a public forum such as this will find more responsible answers than i have time for. I have no expertise in offshore gear as i worked in american industry and that is what i know the most about, well engineered industrial hardware. All my solar gear is made in USA. I can refer hard questions to the manufacturer and get real hard core engineering answers that i need. Not so for most offshore gear including some pretty good gear such as Victron, support is absent to non-existant. I do engineering level consultations for state licensed electricians who get in over their heads, believe me the contractor schools teach you what you need to get by, not all that you can put to use.
This unit was trash from a failed installation and I am salvaging only the pouch cells and frames. The other parts are not suitable as they are all of the cheapest Chinese manufacture. The BMS is a Daly but it is the smallest, cheapest looking one that is in their catalog. I will be using fully programmable BMS units on these cells as i consider them to be sub-standard in construction and safety. There is absolutely no puncture or rupture protection on these cells. The cell packs will be mounted in a frame with compression of the cells as per the experience of many other users of lithium ferro phosphate cells. Nobody on any of the forums has mentioned and use of pouch cells such as these in a housing situation.
Nissan Leaf cells are very similar but mounted in very much safer frame assembly's that is meant to protect against damage and puncture.
This unit was trash from a failed installation and I am salvaging only the pouch cells and frames. The other parts are not suitable as they are all of the cheapest Chinese manufacture. The BMS is a Daly but it is the smallest, cheapest looking one that is in their catalog. I will be using fully programmable BMS units on these cells as i consider them to be sub-standard in construction and safety. There is absolutely no puncture or rupture protection on these cells. The cell packs will be mounted in a frame with compression of the cells as per the experience of many other users of lithium ferro phosphate cells. Nobody on any of the forums has mentioned and use of pouch cells such as these in a housing situation.
Nissan Leaf cells are very similar but mounted in very much safer frame assembly's that is meant to protect against damage and puncture.
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