42OhmsPA
Who likes Electrical Gremlins?
I think you've got it under control.
Please report back on what you find once you get the new stuff wired up.
Thanks for taking the time to cut it open.
Beware of Amazon's class t fuses
- Thread starter Osmethne
- Start date
Please report back on what you find once you get the new stuff wired up.
Thanks for taking the time to cut it open.
seneysolar
24V
I know. I mentioned that previously.
Crap steel terminals have no place in vehicle systems either. It will corrode very quickly. Deka is simply cutting costs while plastering 100% copper conductor on the packaging to distract the consumer. For a company that "specializes" in battery products, im not impressed.
robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
Interesting, pls cut a corner or into the lug contact. And also down to the center where the fuse element attaches. I've seen a similar teardown where the attachment is copper and a small plate where the element attaches is copper and the rest of the jacket you cut to hold the ceramic is brass.
I am 99.9% sure the fuse used by OP if applied properly would have worked as designed and it has plenty of other certifications.. OP is skirting responsibility even still saying “Unconvinced he did wrong.” …. He has basically laid blame on fuse not being UL . Several ppl have done likewise. At same time several ppl have pointed washer stack up.
This is OP’s …. Amazon fuse data claim. It was his responsibility to look it up as DIY. He applied it incorrectly.
Hardware Most likely cadmium plated like no doubt the automotive battery cable steel lugs. SKIN EFFECT. The OP made a Preamble on another post where he stated did not want to be told he does anything wrong. Also made a post where he had discussion with his spouse over house burning down on this forum. She was upset according to him. That post is on forums. I am not trying to embarrass him or would could do that. We are all human and subject to mistakes or misunderstandings. Human condition.
Right now an outsider would think the brand of fuse used by OP is was the problem. The primary problem that caused this was OP misapplication. Fault is the installer which assumes all responsibility. The fuse made zero claims to UL. None.
Most all things are made somewhere else now. The pig headed American think is trash everything in this Global World which is now filled with false words and innuendo in advertising. The problem is America doesn’t make much anymore except fake macho attitude.
The consumer is left to wade in it …. Examples: bussman UL recognized not label will go to cheapest labor possible and compares to. Other advertising cites UL materials. OP fuse made no UL claims. The Blue Sea fuse has UL label. Does the OP’s inverter have a UL label. Why is his inverter not in production now? Hmmmm… ask him. UL is now important to him. Scape goat. He is still unconvinced he did wrong.
Me - was just trying to keep him from suiciding and taking his family with him in a fire. Some of that is also self preservations because what he does effects me ….his home burning - him - family burning up will in effect make govt regulators get involved due to insurance companies nagging….which will restrict what we as DIY do even more….codes and requirements. DIY is not for everyone. 
robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
I am 99.9% sure the fuse used by OP if applied properly would have worked as designed and it has plenty of other certifications.. OP is skirting responsibility even still saying “Unconvinced he did wrong.” …. He has basically laid blame on fuse not being UL . Several ppl have done likewise. At same time several ppl have pointed washer stack up.
This is OP’s …. Amazon fuse data claim. It was his responsibility to look it up as DIY. He applied it incorrectly.
I think this has been covered, but I was curious about the construction of the fuse since he had it open - nothing to do with if it would or wouldn't have done the job.
Interestingly enough it was probably only a couple months back where there was speculation that there were NO counterfeit class T fuses as it was to small a market to do them. I am in no way insinuating this was fake, just cheap.
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SunDave
Solar Addict
cs1234
Solar Wizard
- Joined
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- 3,538
If you're anything like the rest of us Americans.. you are very pig headed.
Osmethne
Solar Enthusiast
I am 99.9% sure the fuse used by OP if applied properly would have worked as designed and it has plenty of other certifications.. OP is skirting responsibility even still saying “Unconvinced he did wrong.” …. He has basically laid blame on fuse not being UL . Several ppl have done likewise. At same time several ppl have pointed washer stack up.
This is OP’s …. Amazon fuse data claim. It was his responsibility to look it up as DIY. He applied it incorrectly.
View attachment 222686
Hardware Most likely cadmium plated like no doubt the automotive battery cable steel lugs. SKIN EFFECT. The OP made a Preamble on another post where he stated did not want to be told he does anything wrong. Also made a post where he had discussion with his spouse over house burning down on this forum. She was upset according to him. That post is on forums. I am not trying to embarrass him or would could do that. We are all human and subject to mistakes or misunderstandings. Human condition.
Right now an outsider would think the brand of fuse used by OP is was the problem. The primary problem that caused this was OP misapplication. Fault is the installer which assumes all responsibility. The fuse made zero claims to UL. None.
View attachment 222682
Most all things are made somewhere else now. The pig headed American think is trash everything in this Global World which is now filled with false words and innuendo in advertising. The problem is America doesn’t make much anymore except fake macho attitude.
The consumer is left to wade in it …. Examples: bussman UL recognized not label will go to cheapest labor possible and compares to. Other advertising cites UL materials. OP fuse made no UL claims. The Blue Sea fuse has UL label. Does the OP’s inverter have a UL label. Why is his inverter not in production now? Hmmmm… ask him. UL is now important to him. Scape goat. He is still unconvinced he did wrong.
View attachment 222683
View attachment 222684
Oh, Okay. I think I see the problem now. I have friends that are alcoholics. It's a hell of a thing to have to deal with. So I totally get what you're going through.
Regarding the book you've just written about me, I promise to get to it later. It's just a lot to go through right now.
But for now I'd to say that I think you are stronger than you think. You can overcome this.
ericfx1984
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,029
That was the first thing I saw in the picture as well
ericfx1984
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2021
- Messages
- 1,029
I only use name brand class T fuses... Oftentimes the savings are so minimal that I would rather just go with something that I know is going to work... Rather than having to chase my tail later
outsider
Solar Enthusiast
Copper washers: not the best idea, probably, but a better idea than zinc or steel washers.
robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
More like these
Thick enough they don't bend or deform easy. They are basically acting as a 1mm bus bar since that is how thick they are.
Using them would add the resistance of 2 connections but on top of a MRBF fuse it spreads the area the lug has to interface if you aren't using wide lugs. Only place I use them. Clean and polish then no-ox-id special on both sides.
Thick enough they don't bend or deform easy. They are basically acting as a 1mm bus bar since that is how thick they are.
Using them would add the resistance of 2 connections but on top of a MRBF fuse it spreads the area the lug has to interface if you aren't using wide lugs. Only place I use them. Clean and polish then no-ox-id special on both sides.
outsider
Solar Enthusiast
Is there another meaning to the term "skin effect" that I'm not familiar with? The one I know about regards how current in conductors penetrates less and less of the conductor, resulting in higher resistance, as the AC frequency gets higher and higher, especially as one gets into the RF and microwave frequency domains. It has little effect at 60 Hz except for very large conductors, and brings zero impact to DC circuits, i.e. to AC current at zero frequency, at which frequency the skin depth would be infinity.I am 99.9% sure the fuse used by OP if applied properly would have worked as designed and it has plenty of other certifications.. OP is skirting responsibility even still saying “Unconvinced he did wrong.” …. He has basically laid blame on fuse not being UL . Several ppl have done likewise. At same time several ppl have pointed washer stack up.
This is OP’s …. Amazon fuse data claim. It was his responsibility to look it up as DIY. He applied it incorrectly.
View attachment 222686
Hardware Most likely cadmium plated like no doubt the automotive battery cable steel lugs. SKIN EFFECT. The OP made a Preamble on another post where he stated did not want to be told he does anything wrong. Also made a post where he had discussion with his spouse over house burning down on this forum. She was upset according to him. That post is on forums. I am not trying to embarrass him or would could do that. We are all human and subject to mistakes or misunderstandings. Human condition.
Right now an outsider would think the brand of fuse used by OP is was the problem. The primary problem that caused this was OP misapplication. Fault is the installer which assumes all responsibility. The fuse made zero claims to UL. None.
View attachment 222682
Most all things are made somewhere else now. The pig headed American think is trash everything in this Global World which is now filled with false words and innuendo in advertising. The problem is America doesn’t make much anymore except fake macho attitude.
The consumer is left to wade in it …. Examples: bussman UL recognized not label will go to cheapest labor possible and compares to. Other advertising cites UL materials. OP fuse made no UL claims. The Blue Sea fuse has UL label. Does the OP’s inverter have a UL label. Why is his inverter not in production now? Hmmmm… ask him. UL is now important to him. Scape goat. He is still unconvinced he did wrong.
View attachment 222683
View attachment 222684
outsider
Solar Enthusiast
The washers would look like much more than 1 mm busbars, because the current isn't going sideways through them, it's going through one face and out the other, which path has much more area, and also much less pathlength, and so doubly much less resistance than said busbar.
robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
In this case the real issue was the fuse holder and how he stacked them - he has since replaced them and done them correctly.
On the topic of specifications, if you can't get a publicly published datasheet for a fuse/breaker/whatever, then you don't really know what you're getting. Relying on a reseller's quick notes in a web page is a good way to not get what you think you're getting.
For fuses, if it isn't Littelfuse, Victron or Blue Sea (both of which could very well be rebranded Littelfuse), I'm not touching it.
EDIT: Corrected Littlefuse to Littelfuse per robbob2112.
For fuses, if it isn't Littelfuse, Victron or Blue Sea (both of which could very well be rebranded Littelfuse), I'm not touching it.
EDIT: Corrected Littlefuse to Littelfuse per robbob2112.
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robbob2112
Doing more research, mosty harmless
don't forget Eaton and Bussman, they are just as good as the others and have public data.
And the trick with the website stuff is they will 'borrow' the specs from another fuse or even say they are selling Littelfuse, but when it arrives it is no-label junk .,.... and btw - I made this mistake for a long time - it is littelfuse verse littlefuse
This is where staying away from amazon helps
And the trick with the website stuff is they will 'borrow' the specs from another fuse or even say they are selling Littelfuse, but when it arrives it is no-label junk .,.... and btw - I made this mistake for a long time - it is littelfuse verse littlefuse
This is where staying away from amazon helps
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Sometimes when you appear to have done most everything correctly followed all known guidelines used fusing and such your house can still burn down. If you and family survive it once do you do it again.? Yes or No? House fires can start by a lot of other things too.
diysolarforum.com
They (someone somewhere everyone after-fact) say with safety to never cut corners. Probably Your safest bet is to just use the established tried and true but old and aging electric grid. If doing the safest thing. Every added element is another door that is yet to be opened.
The UL was pushed by insurance company around same time electricity was taking off . If house burned they’d say you didn’t use ul.
The above first is suspect but will never be actual for root.
Where should ppl cut corners….. be cheap? The wrong washer stack can cause panic.
House burned down
So, after 4 to 5 years of working flawless, the 100 kwh lifepo4 battery caught fire at night and burned our house down. Luckily our family just made in out on time. Inspection of the fire expert revealed that a melt fuse melted, and created an arc between the 2 points wich ultimatly started the...
diysolarforum.com
They (someone somewhere everyone after-fact) say with safety to never cut corners. Probably Your safest bet is to just use the established tried and true but old and aging electric grid. If doing the safest thing. Every added element is another door that is yet to be opened.
The UL was pushed by insurance company around same time electricity was taking off . If house burned they’d say you didn’t use ul.
The above first is suspect but will never be actual for root.
Words the cadium zinc is about if not requirement for electrical work with fasteners. ……cadium zinc are decent conductors and help fight corrosion. They tried do away with it because of heath concerns but things burned up from heat and corrosion so went back to fasteners coated ala cad plated skin on them at rail roads. And other places. Cadium zinc was the devil for a bit. Until stuff broke and failed…. Then the whiners said cadium zinc plating good so please to use again…..please. Then they said why did you stop using it.?
Where should ppl cut corners….. be cheap? The wrong washer stack can cause panic.
Thanks for the reminder. I'll make the mistake probably 10 or 20 times in the future.
Absolutely. The Midnite Solar breakers are made by someone else. Midnite's smaller selection that is oriented specifically to PV just makes it easier for me to get the right product without wading through hundreds of items.
I've seen a lot of breakers sold as "Bussman", but it seems they're referring more to a type of breaker than the actual brand. The Blue Sea Systems breakers appear to be rebranded Bussman products. Their current trip time graph says it's provided by "Cooper Bussman".
k490
Solar Enthusiast
Just bought a Blue Sea Class T fuse block 225A-400A the thing is massive size of my hand I had this idea that this was lot smaller. I paid extra for the ignition protected. I got it from PKYS INC small business shipping was fast price was good. I don't trust amazon sometimes never know what you get only issue is they sent me a 400 amp I wanted 300 amp fuse. I still don't trust lithium it will be in a steel box if all the circuit protection fails I still can contain it in a 180lb steel box.
CaliSunHarvester
Solar Wizard
I read earlier today how someone's electric screw driver self ignited.
It was mentioned that Lithium batteries (all??) burn at 2000 degrees Celsius. Steel melts at 1200 degrees Celsius.
Concrete?
Sorry don't mean to pick on anyone and id be happy to be corrected but from what I can see if lithium does ignite it can reach temps of 2000°c where as steel melts at 1200-1300°c so a steel box isn't all the protection it's cracked up to be.
I've actually been looking at a supplier for byd Blade batteries and all the cases seem to be stainless steel (melting point is 2500°c+) if I was to be worried about a fire this is what I'd use.
Edit: Here's a reference to lithium ion burn rates unsure about lifepo4
Lithium-Ion Batteries and Electrical Fires | Envista Forensics
If a lithium-ion battery fails, it could burst into flame. Read more on how these fires start, and the advantages and disadvantages of lithium-ion batteries.
www.envistaforensics.com
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Concrete also melts at around 1200°c btw
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