Beware the lure of unethical solar panels

[eabyrd]

I thought the article worth sharing

From the vault: Beware the lure of unethical solar power

World Economic Forum has issued a damning report card on the state of the world’s solar panel manufacturing - is solar power ethical?

cosmosmagazine.com

 

[chrisski]

I read the report linked in the article above, and it seemed more of a news article than a report with references.

I’m not sure I agree that solar energy is cheaper than coal and other forms of carbon based energy. I could have fed a lot of gas into my generator with what I paid for m DIY solar installation.

We all know that 45% of a world’s product should not be coming from an area with forced labor. I’d rather see somewhere else manufacture these, but wherever they try, they can not do competitively priced.

Seems to me someone is pointing out problems with no real solutions being pushed forward.

 

[eabyrd]

The underlying report had 3 suggestions
1) Energy companies can increase supply chain transparency for renewable energy components and hold suppliers to higher compliance standards

2) The solar industry must diversify processing, manufacturing, and assembly of key inputs and component parts.

3) Policy-makers should offer more support for research and development into new technologies and cleaner and sustainable manufacturing and processing.

 

[wattmatters]

’m not sure I agree that solar energy is cheaper than coal and other forms of carbon based energy. I could have fed a lot of gas into my generator with what I paid for m DIY solar installation.

The economics of small scale will be different everywhere based on solar PV installation costs, fossil fuel supply prices and grid energy tariffs but at grid scale the levelled cost of firmed solar PV is below that of fossil fuel generation now. In Australia its now cheaper than the cost of fossil fuel alone, let alone the cost of using fossil fuel to generate.

For domestic applications it will depend on your specific tariffs. There's no way a home generator here could supply energy cheaper than either the grid or solar PV.

Where I am (NSW Australia) my grid tied solar PV energy will cost ~ US3.2c/kWh over its lifespan. For people installing new systems today that will now be closer to US2.5c/kWh.

Grid energy costs ~US20c/kWh.
Energy through the generator would cost close to $US1/kWh.

 

[wattmatters]

If we are going to talk ethics, then one also needs to consider the ethics of the fossil fuel industry.

 

[toms]

Don’t separate renewable and fossil fuel industries - they are the left and right hands of the same body.

Ethics in both instances are a distant priority compared to profits.

The real issue is the government (in many instances) being a paid employee of large corporations.

 

[wattmatters]

Hmmm, I'm not exactly seeing "Big Solar" as having the sort of influence the fossil fuel lobby has/had. The fossil fuel lobby's grip on our (Aussie) govt is staggering. They are actively anti-renewables.

In any case, let's say you don't like the ethics of solar panel and choose not to buy it. What alternative are people suggesting?

 

[toms]

Hmmm, I'm not exactly seeing "Big Solar" as having the sort of influence the fossil fuel lobby has/had. The fossil fuel lobby's grip on our (Aussie) govt is staggering. They are actively anti-renewables.

You miss the point, the renewables have had a massive influence on government spending worldwide. The individuals in control of the major renewable players and major fossil fuel players are one and the same.

The easiest way to separate money from government is to create an emotive environment. The fossil fuel industry main players have been very successful to date at creating a renewable energy platform to support their fossil fuel platform - and have managed to convince both sides of government to throw money at them.

It’s not a case of one side winning. Look at the main investors who control the appointments of the board of the likes of Chevron and Jinko - they are playing both sides, and it’s not to hedge.

 

[wattmatters]

You miss the point, the renewables have had a massive influence on government spending worldwide.

Good. We need more investment in renewables.

The individuals in control of the major renewable players and major fossil fuel players are one and the same.

Can you name them?

 

[sunshine]

The easiest way to separate money from government is to create an emotive environment.

VW recently said (threatened) that they are waiting to see the amount of Australian Government EV incentives before determining their ev export program to Australia, No doubt they will double down on 'how green can VW go' over the next few months to get the eco juices flowing amongst our leaders and hope that no one remembers VW's last great environmental crusade with diesel nor point out that their Amaroc weighs more than a 1970's Ford F100 that was considered huge back then.

 

[wattmatters]

VW recently said (threatened) that they are waiting to see the amount of Australian Government EV incentives before determining their ev export program to Australia, No doubt they will double down on 'how green can VW go' over the next few months to get the eco juices flowing amongst our leaders and hope that no one remembers VW's last great environmental crusade with diesel nor point out that their Amaroc weighs more than a 1970's Ford F100 that was considered huge back then.

Actually the biggest impediment to importing EVs into Australia are our 19th century emissions standards. Car makers the world over need to keep their overall avg emissions per vehicle below set threshold is Europe and USA, else they incur substantial fines. EVs help them keep the average down, while sending them to Australia does nothing for them to avoid fines in US and Europe.

 

[sunshine]

EVs help them keep the average down

Yes. I remember when Tesla did that deal with Fiat? to combine their sales for this reason.
The demand for all new vehicles is high at the moment. Any government EV incentive will only add to the purchase price and just be a subsidy to a foreign car maker only a year after all subsidies were stopped for our local vehicle producers.

 

[wattmatters]

Any government EV incentive will only add to the purchase price and just be a subsidy to a foreign car maker only a year after all subsidies were stopped for our local vehicle producers.

We have been adding taxes to EVs, e.g. a per km charge on EVs and hybrids is already law in one state and other states are looking at the same. It's idiotic but there it is.

 

[sunshine]

We have been adding taxes to EVs, e.g. a per km charge on EVs and hybrids is already law in one state and other states are looking at the same.

The reality is that 42c/litre of petrol is tax to general revenue, Some of which goes to roads and considering EVs are 30% heavier than comparable ICE vehicles, so more road maintenance costs, some alternative source for lost revenue need be found and user pays should apply.
Nothing will stop EVs once the present difficulty to supply gets sorted.

 

[wattmatters]

The reality is that 42c/litre of petrol is tax to general revenue

That's a federal tax, not a state tax like the EV charge. Completely different resource allocation.

 

[toms]

Good. We need more investment in renewables.


Can you name them?

Yes, the usual suspects. Those that pull the strings of Vanguard.

 

[sunshine]

That's a federal tax, not a state tax like the EV charge.

Yes. It is a federal tax to replace the former state excise that was ruled out by the High Court and is returned to the States proportionately.
Expect the same to happen to the Victorian EV 'charge'. Someone has to make up for lost revenue to fix the roads.

 

[A.Justice]

Don’t separate renewable and fossil fuel industries - they are the left and right hands of the same body.

Ethics in both instances are a distant priority compared to profits.

The real issue is the government (in many instances) being a paid employee of large corporations.

Like when a pipeline was "hacked" while oil was almost negative $ a barrel, and now its 3x the cost. What a convenient coincidence.

 

[wattmatters]

Someone has to make up for lost revenue to fix the roads.

You're working off the false premise that fuel excise pays for roads. Like most govt revenue sources it goes into general revenue. What governments choose to spend on roads is not in any way tied to income from fuel taxes. If anything the money is used to cover the hideous extra health costs caused by air pollution from ICEVs.

The poor air quality causes thousands of extra early deaths per year and significant numbers of respiratory and related conditions costing $billions. This is long established and well known to governments, e.g. via official reports from the Federal Department of Transport that have been available for a long time.

People buying EVs here are already paying more in GST than for the equivalent ICEV, and probably paying luxury vehicle tax as well given their price.

Then there's the special brand of idiocy that the State of Victoria levies the EV road tax no matter where in Australia your EV is driven. Take a trip interstate and use another state's roads? That revenue comes back to Victoria. lol

It is a federal tax to replace the former state excise that was ruled out by the High Court and is returned to the States proportionately.

And given that very same High Court ruling you have to wonder just how constitutionally sound this state EV charge actually is. Indeed a High Court challenge has already been initiated.

In principal I have no issue with road user charge. But levy it equitably on all vehicles and in proportion to the damage they actually cause, both to roads and to our health. If anything a per km road user charge on all vehicle (scaled by vehicle weight) and a fossil fuel excise is probably the right mix given the additional costs which accompany the use of fossil fuel in vehicles.

 

[wattmatters]

Yes, the usual suspects. Those that pull the strings of Vanguard.

OK, so you can't actually name them. Got it.