BLS 4x 3.2V 200Ah LiFePO4 - voltage difference between cells

[Keith_PDX]

So... I was all in on buying 64 of these 150Ah 3.2v cells from BLS.
$5776,6 (Black Friday deal) for a brand new 30,7kWh 48V LiFePo4 battery (without BMS) sounded like a very sweet deal.

But after having reading this topic and gehowi's evidence (thanks for the investigation!!).... I would be insane to follow through with the purchase, right?
BLS informed me that these batteries have the (infamous?!) M6 bolts.

I'm making my math at €/kWh. Therefore, cycle life is key and if by any chance these are cells that didn't qualify for OEM manufacturers..... it's impossible to factor in a good estimate for the cycle life.

What's interesting is that the guys at BLS receive REALLY good feedback at Aliexpress.
They also have a super interesting shipping method where, transport and all customs taxes and duties are included in the price. That way, you know exactly what your final price will be. Not that usual when buying from Aliexpress.

I'm happy with mine! The 150Ah come from a different cell manufacturer than the ones gehowi received.

 

[msdmaddog]

how many do you have keith ? and do you had any bad one in that batch from bls ?
you just ordered one batch, or multiple ?

 

[Keith_PDX]

how many do you have keith ? and do you had any bad one in that batch from bls ?
you just ordered one batch, or multiple ?

I only have 8 and they all tested individually fine and slightly better than advertised capacity and have been working great in a 2P4S pack in my van.

 

[msdmaddog]

thx... so i dont know.. there are a few good reports about these batteries... also good voting and replies on aliexpress itself.
but some with really specific problems here.... is it just commenting on high level. or are these batteries not usable for household powerbanks due to risks.

 

[Rui Ponte]

As a possible alternative, these seem fantastic:

CATL 3.2V rated Lifepo4 200Ah lithium batteries for ev car, home storage and solar energy, View 3.2v lifepo4, CATL Product Details from Changsha Deligreen Power Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

CATL 3.2V rated Lifepo4 200Ah lithium batteries for ev car, home storage and solar energy, US $ 70.60 - 73.40 / Piece, Guangdong, China, CATL, LFP200-200Ah.Source from Changsha Deligreen Power Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com.

deligreen.en.alibaba.com

If they are indeed brand new CATL 200Ah, at $70.4/each, that works out to $110/kW a cell, which is great.... almost too good to be true.
And even cheaper than the ones from BLS.

 

[jonnyo]

As a possible alternative, these seem fantastic:

CATL 3.2V rated Lifepo4 200Ah lithium batteries for ev car, home storage and solar energy, View 3.2v lifepo4, CATL Product Details from Changsha Deligreen Power Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com

CATL 3.2V rated Lifepo4 200Ah lithium batteries for ev car, home storage and solar energy, US $ 70.60 - 73.40 / Piece, Guangdong, China, CATL, LFP200-200Ah.Source from Changsha Deligreen Power Co., Ltd. on Alibaba.com.

deligreen.en.alibaba.com

If they are indeed brand new CATL 200Ah, at $70.4/each, that works out to $110/kW a cell, which is great.... almost too good to be true.
And even cheaper than the ones from BLS.

you dont include the shipping. pretty sure they make up the ''good price'' with a big shipping tag.

 

[Rui Ponte]

you dont include the shipping. pretty sure they make up the ''good price'' with a big shipping tag.

Shipping (incl. all duties and taxes) brings the cost up to 136 $/kW.

 

[msdmaddog]

this seems to be a more reliable source.

 

[gehowi]

What's interesting is that the guys at BLS receive REALLY good feedback at Aliexpress.
They also have a super interesting shipping method where, transport and all customs taxes and duties are included in the price. That way, you know exactly what your final price will be. Not that usual when buying from Aliexpress.

I agree with the shipping method. BLS found a clever way to pass customs; they ship very fast and well packed.
The communication before buying was good as well.
I gave them five stars like everyone else since there is a very short time for disputes for big purchases. Aliexpress comments are usually written before problems arise and very few people write comments later even we can do that for a few months after purchase.

You are thinking about 64 cells. Then you really need matching cells. If not, the BMS may turn off the whole bank when only 1 cell reach the voltage limits too fast, even if all the other cells are still 70% . One bad cell can drastically reduce the total available capacity.

I really do not believe BLS can deliver 64 matching cells because they may buy cells from different sources and ages with unknown history. Disqualified cells from a manufacturer might be stored a long time in bad conditions as it is waste for them.

5 months ago BLS sent me a link to a video from their warehouse to show their large stock. Not the nice and clean factory pictures from the Aliexpress site but a flat floor in a big room full with pallets of unpacked cells. I do not think that any manufacturer would send their expensive cells on pallets without an individual packing.

I can not prove it but I think BLS buys tons of "industrial waste", selects the usable cells ; drills the poles and reapply a new cover if necessary (has been done to 20 of my cells). They may still make high profits because the price may be very low for their sources.

If you buy 64 BLS cells on Black Friday it may become a really Black friday..

 

[msdmaddog]

a little bit offtopic (not BLS related) i got an offer on deligreen alibaba on
200 Ah - 16 pieces for 1480 USD including shipping and taxes and stuff.
120Ah - 16 pieces for 1194 USD including shipping and taxes and stuff.

IMHO much better offer than BLS. as deligreen on Alibaba is more reliable (Trade Assurance / 4.9 Rating with 75 reviews / 2 years of shop history)

attached the datasheet on these 2 battery types from deligreen.
also not available on the BLS batteries.
greetz Tobias

 

[gehowi]

200 Ah - 16 pieces for 1480 USD including shipping and taxes and stuff.

I don't see a brand name in the description. Can send everything they like, just like BLS.
The 200Ah cell picture looks exactly the same like my ETC cells. The price from an official distributor in EU is 3236$ for 16pcs, all in.
So I think it's too good to be true. If they send to you but did not pay import taxes, then you will have to pay it. Will double the price...

If you try it, please let us know the results..

 

[msdmaddog]

thx for your hint. your right. the only thing is, deligreen is larger with more reputation and reviews and comments as BLS.
but overall its the same level of risk actually.

 

[Fred]

I wonder if the Sinopoly batteries are less risky? Will seems to like them and has a link to them on Amazon.

On Amazon, the cost for 12v 200ah is $1219 with free shipping. Seller is Riuxu. That seller also has a store on Alibaba and has the same pack for $1079 shipping included.

https://www.amazon.com/LiFePO4-Lith...703363c8178e11b14a584dd7bfc837&language=en_US

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/330...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_6,searchweb201603_53

 

[Aussiecroc]

Sinopoly and Winston are tried and tested over many years. I hope the new ones do just as well.

 

[gehowi]

I wonder if the Sinopoly batteries are less risky?

They look rigid but I think plastic enclosures can't dissipate internal heat as well as alu cases. My ETC 200Ah cells rise up 8°C during 12h charge with 15A. Temp rise is never good so I would not buy plastic cells.

On Aliexpress RUIXU remind us that many vendors sell seconds (like BLS)!
Possibly they sell new cells as the price is in the same range as official ETC cells and they ship with UPS Expedited, very likely you do not have to pay extra tax.

 

[MrNatural22]

IMO, Beware anything sold, said or recommended by Ruixu.

 

[gehowi]

I know this BLS topic gets old but I just want to add this mail I got today from ETC manufacturer as a last word:

Hi,

first of all, we are very regret to hear such news.
We can confirm that it is not a qualified product of our ETC.

Secondly, please don't believe that the price is too lower on the website. Before that, we reminded you.

Regarding the reasons for such batteries,
1). please believe us, like these cells are not sold by us, because every battery we sell needs to be tested before leaving the factory.
2). Besides, if we sell these bad quality products, it will seriously affect our product reputation. We are a large company with a registered capital of 250 million yuan, and we can not damage our product reputation in order to sell dozens or hundreds of batteries.

3). We guess that such batteries come from the battery pack systems we sell to customers, and some people recycle used battery pack systems from our end users, and then disassemble the batteries for sale.

In the last, We remind again, please buy batteries from regular channels, such as Alibaba, our company's website. In addition, please do not believe that the price is too low, and the factory will not sell at a loss. Besides, products from regular factories will have test reports for customers' reference after they leave the factory. (About our test report case, it has been provided for your reference in the previous email.)

Thanks a lot.

Best regards!
Benson

 

[DW SD]

BLS had a special on which I stumbled. 8 x 150Ah delivered for $799 to california. Given the CV atrocity, they are slow to respond. And said they won’t process my order until 2/12. So easy for me to back out.
I like the deal for the capacity but the risk seems not worth saving a few $.
would you pull the plug?
I communicated with RJ Energy based on another recommendation (ghostwriter).
thank you very much,

Doug , LFP newbie ?

 

[Fred]

BLS had a special on which I stumbled. 8 x 150Ah delivered for $799 to california. Given the CV atrocity, they are slow to respond. And said they won’t process my order until 2/12. So easy for me to back out.
I like the deal for the capacity but the risk seems not worth saving a few $.
would you pull the plug?
I communicated with RJ Energy based on another recommendation (ghostwriter).
thank you very much,

Doug , LFP newbie ?

I would cancel and order 100ah freedom cells from Electric Car Parts Company.

 

[DW SD]

I would cancel and order 100ah freedom cells from Electric Car Parts Company.

Fred,
Thank you for the advice. I did cancel with BLS. I looked at ECPC. Price was more than double for a given capacity. On some level I believe you get what you pay for.
Haven't decided from where to order, yet.
cheers, Doug