Bluetooth/smartphone alternative to Cerbo

[sailingharry]

Not sure if this is the right subforum, but it seems right.

I have a simple (ha!) system, consisting of 4 BlueSolar, a 3kVA Multiplus, a SmartDongle, and a Battery Protect. My BMS (ElectroDacus) is not Victron-friendly (at least out of the box -- apparently it's not terribly hard to make it talk), and I track my SOC using a Link2000 (ancient but fully functional and in a nice easy to see place). All of the Victron stuff talks to VictronConnect on my cell phone. I have no interest in the expense and complexity of a Cerbo (and all those wires!), and even the Venus solution isn't really attractive, as it still requires wiring all those pieces together.

Here's my thought. All the Victron stuff comes into my cell. It even is "live" since Victron added that neat feature where the list of equipment inlcudes 3-4 useful data fields on the home screen. I should think that a phone app could approximate a Cerbo. It would add all the solar together, in a single number. It could add any charge from the MultiPlus. It could show the status of the BP (although woudn't show any charge from "dumb" sources on the BP, such as my Watt&Sea -- a towed water generator -- and my Victron Centaur). It would show the status of inverting (on/off, controlled by a physical switch) and current from the battery. It can't show any battery info (SOC, net current) except volts and would have no idea about the alternators. It basically would add up and present all the numbers shown on the VictronConnect home screen, and require ZERO installation or additional components.

Does this exist? Is this something a smarter person than I could do? Is it on the way?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

No. Probably - there are those that have figured out how to read the data VictronConnect pulls from the connected devices - at least the MPPT - not sure about VE.Bus. No.

Do you have ve.direct BT dongles for each of your MPPT, or do you actually have smartsolar MPPT?

Why not just buy a smartshunt and get all net charging, discharging, and an actual state of charge? Network them all together, and everything coordinates voltage, current and temperature if so equipped.

 

[740GLE]

300a smart shunt is pretty cheap.

 

[Q-Dog]

I use VenusOS on a Raspberry Pi. It took longer to order the parts than it did to actually hook it all up. In my opinion, $100 and a couple hours of my time is an amazing bargain to get fully functional VRM working on my system.

I get it that some folks just want a ready made solution, but, this is the DIY Solar Forum.

 

[740GLE]

Tempting to sell RaPi Venus flashed (at cost) for those that want plug and play.

For me it was the ability to hook up cheap touch HDMI display, and the cheap ve.direct to usb hub from duppa that sold me on it. I wasn’t going to pay $35 a cable for a victron cable, and some of the DIY cables seemed a little janky.

 

[sailingharry]

* I actually have the SmartSolar. Ooops... So weird that "BlueSolar" is not the one with bluetooth.....
* My LINK2000 is at my navigation station, monitors both my house and start battery, is on 24/7 and can be seen walking past. Perfect for seeing SOC. This one display gives SOC (actually, Ah), Amps, and Volts for both batteries (only one field at a time, it's 1998 tech after all). I keep it on House Ah for instant reference.
* Any Cerbo solution requires 4 VE.Direct cables for the MPPT (and the Cerbo only has 3 plugs). Venus solution is even harder. My Multi has one VE.Bus for the SmartDongle, and one for the MKIII, so something has to be reconfigured since there are only two ports (the Cerbo takes 2, so perhaps the SmartDongle can plug into the Cerbo?
* Adding a smart shunt is money, of course. But worse, I already have 2 shunts (one high for my BMS, one low for my Link, then add another for the Smart Shunt -- and to fully replicate my Link2000, I'd need TWO Smart Shunts, one for each battery). My ideal display location is 30 feet of really painful wiring from the battery, so it would have to be put in a less convenient place.
* My Link2000 answers about 95% of all information needs (battery amps, SOC, what more do you really need?). The basic VictronConnect screen gives the other 5%. A Venus-like solution just makes it marginally nicer. The pain and expense of a Venus solution (just 4 VE.Direct - USB cables is $120!) doesn't justify the very limited additional information. Further complicated by the fact that it won't even have a display (it's too hard to get cables anywhere useful) so it still is just an app on a cell phone so only a curiosity, not really useful. Agreed, an app that shows the info that would be on a Pi is just what I want, but the $200+ (another $150-200 if I wanted to add a SmartShunt), plus install pain, to get it is a real hard sell.
* A Ras-Pi that spoke VE.Smart would make this much easier/cheaper. Or a Cerbo-like cell phone app that spoke VE.Smart....LOL

Note that a Pi is NOT $100. It's $100 (I found the Pi 4 starter kit for $120, but I don't doubt I could find it closer to $100 if I tried), plus another $120 for 4 VE.direct - USB cables, plus a USB hub (at least 5, 6 if I add a SmartShunt), plus a 12V power adapter, plus a case of some sort (included in the starer kit). And that's assuming I want no display, just a phone app -- call it a $300 budget. And SmartShunts are $150 or so -- $100 for the 500A shunt, $30 for the USB cable, and some more for 4/0 cable & lugs.

 

[740GLE]

For the Multiplus to cerbo/venus, you skip the smart dongle and use a network rj45 to rj45 on the cerbo. Or use the mk3 to usb to plug directly into the usb on the pi.

As for price of the pi, the starter kits is kinda junky with crap you don’t really need.

I did a rapi4b 4gb with a USB power supply and an Amazon case, I had an SD card, I think my order was $75ish. The usb to vedirect added another 60ish. I think you can use a pizero which is even cheaper

Ve.direct to usb hub, it wasn’t until I found this on Andy’s off grid garage did I think a pi was for me.

Isolated 4 port USB to TTL UART FTDI – DuPPa

www.duppa.net

Cheap RaPi

Raspberry Pi, Raspberry Pi 4 Products Category on Adafruit Industries

Adafruit Industries, Unique & fun DIY electronics and kits : Raspberry Pi 4 - Tools Gift Certificates Arduino Cables Sensors LEDs Books Breakout Boards Power EL Wire/Tape/Panel Components & Parts LCDs & Displays Wearables Prototyping Raspberry Pi Wireless Young Engineers 3D printing NeoPixels...

www.adafruit.com

But with that said I do admit it sounds like your 90% of what you want, so investing in a cerbo/RaPi system is easier said than done.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

* I actually have the SmartSolar. Ooops... So weird that "BlueSolar" is not the one with bluetooth.....
* My LINK2000 is at my navigation station, monitors both my house and start battery, is on 24/7 and can be seen walking past. Perfect for seeing SOC. This one display gives SOC (actually, Ah), Amps, and Volts for both batteries (only one field at a time, it's 1998 tech after all). I keep it on House Ah for instant reference.
* Any Cerbo solution requires 4 VE.Direct cables for the MPPT (and the Cerbo only has 3 plugs).

DUPPA.NET has a 4 ve.direct to USB module for about $60 with 4 cables.

Venus solution is even harder. My Multi has one VE.Bus for the SmartDongle, and one for the MKIII, so something has to be reconfigured since there are only two ports (the Cerbo takes 2, so perhaps the SmartDongle can plug into the Cerbo?

VE.Bus will plug directly into Cerbo. TO use RPi, you'll need a MK3-USB adapter.

 

[sailingharry]

I have a tendency to want something, and think that the world wants the same thing. It's clear that I'm the only person who thinks that a more consolidated VictronConnect screen (summing all MPPT, for instance) would be nice. Most prefer a Pi solution hardwired to the individual components, rather than a bluetooth solution with existing functionality. Such is my routine frustration. And the lack of user interest in such a feature explains why Victron hasn't done it.

Similarly, I am amazed that "smart TV's" can't do a Zoom for family chats (I could see my wife and her mother sitting in the living room chatting with her son in Okinawa on the big screen). The whole world says "who would want that -- just use your phone." Some say "just hook up your laptop to the TV." No one says "that would be so cool!"

I'm an odd bird. I've had 62 years to come to grips with that.

Thanks all for the thoughts.

 

[Brucey]

The pain and expense of a Venus solution (just 4 VE.Direct - USB cables is $120!)

Thats why eggo mentioned the duppa usb to 4 ve.direct ports solution from duppa. That would cover your four sccs.

It's clear that I'm the only person who thinks that a more consolidated VictronConnect screen (summing all MPPT, for instance) would be nice.

With my 450/100 and 250/100 connected via ve.can Victron Connect shows Network total power and the sum if you drill down into one of them, not sure if the same applies when smart sccs are connected via a bt ve.smart network instead

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have a tendency to want something, and think that the world wants the same thing. It's clear that I'm the only person who thinks that a more consolidated VictronConnect screen (summing all MPPT, for instance) would be nice. Most prefer a Pi solution hardwired to the individual components, rather than a bluetooth solution with existing functionality. Such is my routine frustration. And the lack of user interest in such a feature explains why Victron hasn't done it.

Nope. There's probably a lot of interest in something like this. It's not happening because they already have a solution and aren't interested in duplicating effort/features.

VictronConnect and bluetooth = for people who like to play around

Cerbo and VRM = for people who are seriously serious.

 

[sailingharry]

Nope. There's probably a lot of interest in something like this. It's not happening because they already have a solution and aren't interested in duplicating effort/features.

VictronConnect and bluetooth = for people who like to play around

Cerbo and VRM = for people who are seriously serious.

That makes sense. I only have 1kW of solar (if you count the 200W of useless Solbians at rated value, not the 30W they make today...) and barely 600Ah (7kWh) of LFP, on a boat that doesn't get 100 days of use a year. It's definitely "play around" territory, and the Victron big buck integrated system doesn't make sense (note, my LFP isn't Victron either, same reasons). A Cerbo represents 5% of the system cost (10% of the LFP upgrade)!

The Cerbo/VRM makes a lot of sense when you get to 10's of kW, with dozens of kWh LFP -- Seriously serious installations. Here, a Cerbo may be more like 1/2% of system cost.

Similarly, VRM is almost pointless when the boat is 100' from my front door and there's no 24/7 internet on the boat.

 

[sailingharry]

Thats why eggo mentioned the duppa usb to 4 ve.direct ports solution from duppa. That would cover your four sccs.
With my 450/100 and 250/100 connected via ve.can Victron Connect shows Network total power and the sum if you drill down into one of them, not sure if the same applies when smart sccs are connected via a bt ve.smart network instead

Brucey,

You may have hit on something. I seem to recall that "total network power" field, and long ago "stopped seeing it." Tomorrow I'll drill down and see if it's there. That almost gets the answer, if it's there. Thanks!

 

[sailingharry]

Brucey,

You may have hit on something. I seem to recall that "total network power" field, and long ago "stopped seeing it." Tomorrow I'll drill down and see if it's there. That almost gets the answer, if it's there. Thanks!

Brucey,

You are 100% correct. It unfortunately provides the data in Watts, and my brain works on Amps, but it still provides the aggregate power. (The summary page shows W for each MPPT as well, so maybe Victron has a preference for Watts).

Thanks!

 

[Brucey]

Brucey,

You are 100% correct. It unfortunately provides the data in Watts, and my brain works on Amps, but it still provides the aggregate power. (The summary page shows W for each MPPT as well, so maybe Victron has a preference for Watts).

Thanks!

Summary page should show the amps as well, assuming you expand the entries:

 

[Brucey]

Oh I see you want combined charge amps, I guess you'd only see what's going to the batteries via the shunt, minus the inverter load.

 

[sailingharry]

I'm learning the limits of my knowledge here, thanks! I've been using VictronConnect for a couple of years. Not very much, as I get almost everything I need, faster and easier, from my LINK2000, but still on a regular occasion. And you've pointed out two things I wanted, "it's in there." Oops...

Thanks!

 

[Brucey]

Please ignore thought this was another thread.

 

[sailingharry]

Thanks, I think. Another protocol! I do have N2K, but not sure I have anything that would use the data -- although it opens lots of possibilities. But seems to require a Cerbo as the comms converter since my existing stuff only speaks VE.Direct, VE.Smart, and VE.Bus.

I need to start a cheat sheet for Victron (it seems I just made it....). So many, each does something different, are incompatible, and (at least to me) their names are pretty un-explanatory so I can't remember which is on my MPPT, etc.
Protocols:
* VE.Smart (all bluetooth devices)
* VE.Direct (MPPT)
* VE.Bus (MP)
* VE.Can (Cerbo and some newer gear)
Control (and no, they don't even start with the same letters, so entering "VE" in the Windows search bar won't find them all)
* VeConfig (program to configure MP, hardwired through MKIII)
* VictronConnect (Bluetooth data presentation and MPPT/BP configuration)
* VE.Bus System Configurator (not sure, not used in my system)
Remote
* Multiplus -- take "plus" terminal to ground (or "minus" terminal-- same thing)
* BP/Orion TR -- take "plus" to "hot" or "minus" to ground or short them (note, it is possible to tie the MP "+" and the BP "-" together, and take to ground to shut off both charging sources, and possibly to shut off both loads).
* MPPT -- some funky VE.Direct shenanigans
Multiplus comms
* For basic info and bluetooth data, a SmartDongle
* To actually configure it, the MKIII (cause you know, it's not possible to make one device do it all.....)