Bluetti AC200Max - Reverse polarity on 30A receptacle

[Rondondo]

Will Prowse - with due respect, putting all the technical jargon aside there is a YouTuber that actually made a video on a fix for the polarity problem which creates 2 MAJOR problems for the YouTuber 1) The Warranty will be voided, 2) The YouTuber can now be liable for any injuries sustained from his advice. Also, as long as there is a possibility for injury during usage such as Marduke and many others here claim, I don't think it is a good idea for you to be putting out claims that the AC200MAX 30 amp plug reversal shouldn't make a difference. You too sir are putting yourself out on a great big limb by going public with your statements, you too may be held legally responsible for any injuries suffered. Your knowledge on the subject is commendable believe me but I'm not sure you understand the hot water you can get into by defending the 30 amp reversal as being "no problem."

Bluetti is staring down the barrel of serious government action against them on this one for not issuing a RECALL notice when they knew full well there was a problem. There may also be a possibility that they encouraged the above mentioned Youtuber to put out a DIY fix video so that Bluetti would not have to pay for more return expenses (you can't put it past them after all this). A company who flagrantly disregards the customer is not worth a hill of beans, would you be crazy enough to buy any Bluetti product after this?

I dare anyone to call their service number, you get an answering machine and/or a guy that isn't too swift at all. ph: no. 1-702-463-4792? Write an email and you may not get an answer for 2 or 3 days. And this is a company that supposedly has a good reputation?? Not issuing a RECALL notice shows a clear disregard for customers that put them on the map it is blatant negligence - is this the kind of company that anyone should support? Bottom line - they don't care about you even if you did drop over $2,100.00 for their DEFECTIVE AC200MAX !!

My suggestion to all owners: If you do a DIY fix you can kiss the Warranty goodbye - touch the wrong connection and end up dead ! Don't mess with it !

 

[Will Prowse]

No, I disagree. I did nothing wrong here. I will never tell my viewers to open up these units, and they are a floating system. There is no earth ground reference potential. You don't understand how these systems work. There is NO polarity here.

I am saying it's fine. There is NO safety hazard here. You are being emotional about nothing. Please tell me a potential scenario that would cause a safety issue.

 

[Will Prowse]

Will Prowse - with due respect, putting all the technical jargon aside there is a YouTuber that actually made a video on a fix for the polarity problem which creates 2 MAJOR problems for the YouTuber 1) The Warranty will be voided, 2) The YouTuber can now be liable for any injuries sustained from his advice. Also, as long as there is a possibility for injury during usage such as Marduke and many others here claim, I don't think it is a good idea for you to be putting out claims that the AC200MAX 30 amp plug reversal shouldn't make a difference. You too sir are putting yourself out on a great big limb by going public with your statements, you too may be held legally responsible for any injuries suffered. Your knowledge on the subject is commendable believe me but I'm not sure you understand the hot water you can get into by defending the 30 amp reversal as being "no problem."

Bluetti is staring down the barrel of serious government action against them on this one for not issuing a RECALL notice when they knew full well there was a problem. There may also be a possibility that they encouraged the above mentioned Youtuber to put out a DIY fix video so that Bluetti would not have to pay for more return expenses (you can't put it past them after all this). A company who flagrantly disregards the customer is not worth a hill of beans, would you be crazy enough to buy any Bluetti product after this?

I dare anyone to call their service number, you get an answering machine and/or a guy that isn't too swift at all. ph: no. 1-702-463-4792? Write an email and you may not get an answer for 2 or 3 days. And this is a company that supposedly has a good reputation?? Not issuing a RECALL notice shows a clear disregard for customers that put them on the map it is blatant negligence - is this the kind of company that anyone should support? Bottom line - they don't care about you even if you did drop over $2,100.00 for their DEFECTIVE AC200MAX !!

My suggestion to all owners: If you do a DIY fix you can kiss the Warranty goodbye - touch the wrong connection and end up dead ! Don't mess with it !

And every YouTube video posted states that they are for informational use only. Good luck trying to sue that YouTuber who is providing a fix. If someone shares a video on how to replace their cars brakes on YouTube, and someone dies because they were watching some random video on YouTube, there is no liability. If someone opens a product, that's on them. Not a video on YouTube.

 

[Will Prowse]

Will Prowse - with due respect, putting all the technical jargon aside there is a YouTuber that actually made a video on a fix for the polarity problem which creates 2 MAJOR problems for the YouTuber 1) The Warranty will be voided, 2) The YouTuber can now be liable for any injuries sustained from his advice. Also, as long as there is a possibility for injury during usage such as Marduke and many others here claim, I don't think it is a good idea for you to be putting out claims that the AC200MAX 30 amp plug reversal shouldn't make a difference. You too sir are putting yourself out on a great big limb by going public with your statements, you too may be held legally responsible for any injuries suffered. Your knowledge on the subject is commendable believe me but I'm not sure you understand the hot water you can get into by defending the 30 amp reversal as being "no problem."

Bluetti is staring down the barrel of serious government action against them on this one for not issuing a RECALL notice when they knew full well there was a problem. There may also be a possibility that they encouraged the above mentioned Youtuber to put out a DIY fix video so that Bluetti would not have to pay for more return expenses (you can't put it past them after all this). A company who flagrantly disregards the customer is not worth a hill of beans, would you be crazy enough to buy any Bluetti product after this?

I dare anyone to call their service number, you get an answering machine and/or a guy that isn't too swift at all. ph: no. 1-702-463-4792? Write an email and you may not get an answer for 2 or 3 days. And this is a company that supposedly has a good reputation?? Not issuing a RECALL notice shows a clear disregard for customers that put them on the map it is blatant negligence - is this the kind of company that anyone should support? Bottom line - they don't care about you even if you did drop over $2,100.00 for their DEFECTIVE AC200MAX !!

My suggestion to all owners: If you do a DIY fix you can kiss the Warranty goodbye - touch the wrong connection and end up dead ! Don't mess with it !

NO ONE should open these units. And there is NO reason for a recall. It's not bluetti. All solar generators are wired like this including ecoflow and goalzero. It's fine. I'm telling you right now, it doesn't matter.

 

[Rondondo]

No Will you took me the wrong way I believe. I could not nor would I dare criticize your expertise on any matter electronics because I certainly have very high respect for your ability and knowledge on these matters. What I am saying is this: In matters such as this by making claims such as you have done, if someone gets injured or fatally electrocuted you could easily be embroiled in a lawsuit no matter what your good intent was by doing so. As a legal assistant to one of the most well known attorneys in the Midwest I know from where I come. No matter how correct what you say may be it is always much wiser to stay out of the fray, unless of course you have no concern about being dragged into a personal injury case. So once more, my comments were not criticism they were for your own protection AND peace of mind. Bluetti is the big boy in this matter let them do the talking. Admittedly, I am an electronic NERD in the first magnitude but when it comes to the law/s that a whole different matter. I enjoy your very educational videos and look forward to them. Thanks for all the info !!

 

[Rondondo]

And every YouTube video posted states that they are for informational use only. Good luck trying to sue that YouTuber who is providing a fix. He doesnt understand that it's a floating system. If someone shares a video on how to replace their cars brakes on YouTube, and someone dies because they were watching some random video on YouTube, there is no liability. If someone opens a product, that's on them. Not a video on YouTube.

I have news for you Will anybody, YouTuber or not can be dragged into any courtroom for any public comments they make, The "informational use only" disclaimer is a fallacy a complete myth and only used to discourage legal actions, it is a complete misnomer. Call any decent attorney and your going to get that answer, you should have done so already otherwise you wouldn't be so confident of that fact. So think what you will but you are wrong my friend. Anyone can get sued for any reason, even the most frivolous and you should know that my friend !

 

[Bryanbr]

Courage?! I don't think the polarity of an alternating current output in a floating system is an issue at all, and bluetti pays garbage on top of everything else. I cannot stand working with them. Their links fail half the time because they dont refill their account balance on share a sale. Please, find a better product than bluetti/ecoflow/goalzero etc and I will be all over it.

I just bought a Bluetti AC200P Refurb for $600. There is no better product at that price. And quite by accident it doesn't have 30 amp, so no danger to me.

We value your honesty and integrity. You've demonstrated it time and time again. There's no reason to be courageous if the unit isn't a danger to anyone. I think people were awaiting a real technical analysis of the possible danger.

Until that analysis, this is all just gossip and speculation and internet chatter. Something to do while I'm waiting for my sauna to heat up right now.

 

[Marduke]

I don't think it is an issue at all. Just posted this in my community section. It is a floating system, and grounds are bonded. So polarity does not matter at all. Here was my post:

Hey everyone. I had a lot of people email me this week about concern over bluetti/goalzero/ecoflow products having a reverse polarity RV plug. I don't think it's a problem at all. There is no exposed case on these units, and it's a floating system. It is only considered "reverse polarity" when using the other receptacles as a reference as to what "hot" and "neutral" is considered. It's alternating current though, so it doesn't matter. What does matter is if the reference potential of grounding conductors across ac outputs is bonded. And after testing this five seconds ago, they are. So I don't see any safety issue either. If the outputs were in parallel to increase capacity (with some way to sync the waveforms), the relative "polarity" of the inverters output would matter. But in this instance, I don't see an issue at all. I also can't imagine how electrical engineers from multiple companies could all be wrong in the same way. It is possible, but highly unlikely. If you disagree with me and the engineers, please explain your reasoning below. I would love to hear your reasoning.

It’s a common misconception that because AC alternates direction anyhow that the polarity (referring to hot/neutral) are unimportant.

For device to physically function this is largely true. Most devices function just fine with it reversed. For device safety, both during use and when the device is turned off, this misconception is definitely false.

Being reversed means most devices which use a switch (usually placed on hot in) now have the switch on the neutral out, so even when off all normally neutral and de-energized conductors are now kept electrically hot.

If fed into a transfer panel, a short now is fed on the neutral leg instead of the hot leg, which means all breakers and fuses meant to prevent a fire are essentially ignored and worthless, as they are located on neutral out instead of hot in. This can also occur with standalone devices with internal fuses.

Internal faults can also more easily bypass the switch, meaning the device may turn on with the switch still being off, or fail to turn off even when switched off.

In summary, while a device my physically function, wiring it backwards defeats a myriad of safety features baked into the code for circuit polarity and how the device expects power to be provided for the safety mechanisms designed into it.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

Solid response Will. Glad to hear it’s a non issue.
Now that that’s cleared up, has anyone devised a way to connect a ”standard“ LifeP04 battery to an AC200Max?
Like 12v / 100ah-200ah SOK or similar. Or maybe even a 12v / 400ah such as an EG4 LL?
Thanks

 

[Marduke]

Reverse polarity is a MAJOR contributor to house fires (electrical fire analysis by yereance and kerkhoff), and responsible for a significant portion of electrocutions (evaluation of the US CPSC’s electrocution reduction program, by garret and kyle).

Furthermore, the plug is polarity specific, and it is illegal to not adhere to code polarity on a polarized plug for the aforementioned reasons. You have to provide a non-polarized receptacle if you don’t control the polarity of the power provided, such as the EU outlets which are non-polarity specific by design, and the products designed to use them are also designed for it.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

I just bought a Bluetti AC200P Refurb for $600. There is no better product at that price. And quite by accident it doesn't have 30 amp, so no danger to me.

We value your honesty and integrity. You've demonstrated it time and time again. There's no reason to be courageous if the unit isn't a danger to anyone. I think people were awaiting a real technical analysis of the possible danger.

Until that analysis, this is all just gossip and speculation and internet chatter. Something to do while I'm waiting for my sauna to heat up right now.

Hello , Where did you buy the refurbished AC200P for $600? ?
thanks

 

[Rondondo]

Reverse polarity is a MAJOR contributor to house fires (electrical fire analysis by yereance and kerkhoff), and responsible for a significant portion of electrocutions (evaluation of the US CPSC’s electrocution reduction program, by garret and kyle).

Furthermore, the plug is polarity specific, and it is illegal to not adhere to code polarity on a polarized plug for the aforementioned reasons. You have to provide a non-polarized receptacle if you don’t control the polarity of the power provided, such as the EU outlets which are non-polarity specific by design, and the products designed to use them are also designed for it.

Marduke- Am I understanding you correctly when I say you have reversed your opinion on the polarity issue re: AC200MAX. In your 7:53 Post you said that the "I don't think it is an issue at all" and "Polarity does not matter at all."

Then, in your 9:04 PM post you said "Reverse polarity is a major contributor of fires" etc. Help me out here, which is it or am I grossly misunderstanding what you have stated? I am an old guy with not much knowledge about electronics so could you put it in lay terms that are easy to understand please?

My main questions are as follows: 1) is there a potential for shock concerning the 30amp plug polarity 2) is there a potential for fire because of the 30 amp plug polarity? 3) Do you think it's best to send it back for repair?

Thanks very much, your response will be appreciated.

 

[Marduke]

Marduke- Am I understanding you correctly when I say you have reversed your opinion on the polarity issue re: AC200MAX. In your 7:53 Post you said that the "I don't think it is an issue at all" and "Polarity does not matter at all."

Then, in your 9:04 PM post you said "Reverse polarity is a major contributor of fires" etc. Help me out here, which is it or am I grossly misunderstanding what you have stated? I am an old guy with not much knowledge about electronics so could you put it in lay terms that are easy to understand please?

My main questions are as follows: 1) is there a potential for shock concerning the 30amp plug polarity 2) is there a potential for fire because of the 30 amp plug polarity? 3) Do you think it's best to send it back for repair?

Thanks very much, your response will be appreciated.

I didn’t say those first statements, that was a quote from Will that I was replying to, correcting his misunderstanding

In short, yes, it most definitely is an increased shock and fire hazard.

 

[Bryanbr]

Hello , Where did you buy the refurbished AC200P for $600? ?
thanks

At the maxoak site:

refurbished-goods

Bluetti AC200P; Bluetti AC50S; Bluetti Refurbished Solar Generator; Bluetti Refurbished Power Station; Bluetti Refurbished Solar Panel

maxoak.net

Maxoak is the company, and Bluetti is one of their brands.

 

[Rondondo]

I didn’t say those first statements, that was a quote from Will that I was replying to, correcting his misunderstanding

In short, yes, it most definitely is an increased shock and fire hazard.

Thanks so much for your response I appreciate the clarification - definitely sending it back after that ! I'm very sorry to have purchased it in the first place because of the lack of customer service (no one even answering the phones). The LifePo battery is what I was attracted to. Can you recommend another unit close to the AC200Max? We want it for home use and possibly an RV camper van.

 

[Marduke]

Thanks so much for your response I appreciate the clarification - definitely sending it back after that ! I'm very sorry to have purchased it in the first place because of the lack of customer service (no one even answering the phones). The LifePo battery is what I was attracted to. Can you recommend another unit close to the AC200Max? We want it for home use and possibly an RV camper van.

Ecoflow Delta max 2000 would be comparable.

 

[Rocksnsalt]

Ecoflow Delta max 2000 would be comparable.

And how’s their customer service and shipping performing?
just wondering if anyone has experiences with Ecoflow to elucidate us.

On a Bluetti side note, received my Bluetti D050S DC charger today. received shipping notification 11/5, ups tracking always said check back tomorrow, which I did daily for a week. forgot about it the last 3 days or so and today it arrived.
So I plugged it in, now I can charge at 200-230 watts at idle, using both rear “cigarette“ outlets standard on my Sprinter van. not sure if it goes higher when I’m on the road.
Basically more than doubled my road charging since I haven’t mounted my 2 little Rich Solar 100w panels up top yet.
Awning is an install issue for the panels, in way of where the panel mounts need to be.

Considering oblating the rear rooftop ac in order to get another 200 + watts to fit. It’ll be a hassle to do that though, with ac lines, electrical & MB technology to deal with. ???‍

 

[Rondondo]

Ecoflow Delta max 2000 would be comparable.

Thanks !

 

[nifty-stuff.com]

At the maxoak site:

refurbished-goods

Bluetti AC200P; Bluetti AC50S; Bluetti Refurbished Solar Generator; Bluetti Refurbished Power Station; Bluetti Refurbished Solar Panel

maxoak.net

Maxoak is the company, and Bluetti is one of their brands.

Dang, wish I knew about this before I paid full price for mine!

 

[Rondondo]

Dang, wish I knew about this before I paid full price for mine!

Good luck getting any kind of follow-up service from Bluetti. I've been waiting 10 days for a return label. It takes on average, 3 days to even get an email answer of any sort from Bluetti including many misspelled words. No recall notification even though this can be a very dangerous situation for the owners. Many channels who received, freebee models for review are not speaking out as they should about this, they are covering for Bluetti and that is a real shame. Ok, they may have had a problem but how about sending owners a RECALL NOTICE? How about the inconvenience of returning a brand new unit, no gratuities there by Bluetti also. Companies such as this need to be sanctioned and fined by the FCC and FTC. It just goes to show you how much they respect their customers.