Bluetti announces sodium ion power station and fridge backup station

[werepuppy]

World’s first sodium-ion power station is ready for extreme cold

Works in temperatures down to -25C (-13F).

www.theverge.com

The sodium station is 900WH and can withstand lower temperatures than an LFP system, but not by all that much imho. It weighs 35lb vs their 1024WH LFP station that weighs 25lb. The fridge thing is like their regular 2KWH station but has a flat profile for placement next to a fridge, or maybe on top of it. Availability in a month or so, prices not yet announced.

 

[outsider]

It would be interesting to see the charging curve. My understanding is that sodium batteries have a much wider operating voltage range from fully charged to fully discharged, such that the necessary chargers are quite different (and, might be incompatible with present Li chargers).

(Of course the power station should have its own charger.)

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Added 10 lbs for....?

 

[outsider]

... lower temperature operation. A key thing when attempting to power refrigerators.

 

[zcskywire2]

Added 10 lbs for....?

Making up for the lack of gravimetric density of sodium ion cells. (Wh/Kg) The most energy dense sodium cells on the market are around ~160wh/kg, where as LFP cells are in the 180-190Wh/kg range. Basically to get the same watt hours as a LFP unit, it will have to weigh more

 

[cs1234]

World’s first sodium-ion power station is ready for extreme cold

Works in temperatures down to -25C (-13F).

www.theverge.com

The sodium station is 900WH and can withstand lower temperatures than an LFP system, but not by all that much imho. It weighs 35lb vs their 1024WH LFP station that weighs 25lb. The fridge thing is like their regular 2KWH station but has a flat profile for placement next to a fridge, or maybe on top of it. Availability in a month or so, prices not yet announced.

The ultimate question is whether sodium ion is really that much safer than lifepo4 from a combustibility / off gassing standpoint. If it is, I'm all for it.

 

[bizutch]

At 26:50, this company shows their home sodium batteries. No immediate side by side size comparison to a LFP server battery.

 

[zcskywire2]

At 26:50, this company shows their home sodium batteries. No immediate side by side size comparison to a LFP server battery.

The cylindrical cells shown are likely CBAK 32140NS 10Ah cells, Datasheet likely in the resources, but can post if not, quick math says that these are likely what the packs are running.4500Wh at 59.3V is 15S at 3.95V max charge, 10Ah per cell would put it at a 15S10P pack.
The small prismatic cells are 50mm x 160mm x 118mm cells likely made by veken, Can be seen at 29:34, outdated datasheet in resources,


The large prismatic cells are 71mm x 173mm x 207mm cells also likely made by Veken, a decent view is at 19:39, no datasheet

 

[idahoduckhunter]

Wild putting your power station in the freezer for testing.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

 

[Frugal Devonian]

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Hobo less enthused

 

[SouthernSolar]

The big advantage besides operating in colder temperatures is the materials to make it are cheaper,

 

[werepuppy]

BLUETTI Pioneer Na(Sodium) Portable Power Station | 1,500W 900Wh

World’s first sodium-ion portable power station with 1,500W output, 1,900W fast charging, -25°C operation, 4,000+ cycles, and 10-year battery life for all-weather reliability.

www.bluettipower.com

$799, 900WH capacity, 1500W max power out, 35 lb weight. Worse in every regard than the Elite 100v2 except for the low temperature aspect. Oh yes the idle power consumption is quite low. I wonder if they can replicate that in future LFP models.

 

[JoeHam]

There’s more to consider than energy density. Especially for non mobile/ non portable applications.

Sodium is one of the most common elements on earth which is a distinct advantage.

The ease of eventually dealing with spent batteries is also another important difference. Proper recycling/disposal of
Lithium based batteries is a real issue.

Other considerations:

Comparison chart of sodium ion batteries and lithium ion batteries

Aspect	Sodium-Ion Battery	Lithium-Ion Battery
Raw Material Abundance	Sodium is abundant and inexpensive.	Lithium is less abundant and more costly.
Energy Density	Lower energy density, storing less energy per unit.	Higher energy density, ideal for compact applications.
Cost	Generally cheaper due to plentiful materials.	More expensive due to limited lithium supply.
Safety	Less prone to overheating and thermal runaway.	Can overheat and catch fire if not managed properly.
Environmental Impact	More environmentally friendly and easier to recycle.	Lithium mining can be environmentally damaging.
Commercial Availability	Emerging technology with limited availability.	Widely available and used in many applications.
Performance in Cold	Better performance at lower temperatures.	Performance can degrade in cold conditions.
Cycle Life	Improving, but generally shorter than lithium-ion.	Long cycle life, suitable for long term use.

That is from a random google search that lead me here :

Sodium Ion vs Lithium Ion Battery: A Comparative Analysis

Compare sodium-ion and lithium-ion batteries: history, Pros, Cons, and future prospects. Discover which battery technology might dominate the future.

www.ufinebattery.com

Not a direct comparison to LiFePO4 but the points are valid overall.

 

[jgh]

> Sodium is abundant and inexpensive.

It may be abundant as NaCl, but what is the refined price?
That's a string bond; I suspect you're talking energy levels of similar order to aluminium smelting.

 

[JoeHam]

> Sodium is abundant and inexpensive.

It may be abundant as NaCl, but what is the refined price?
That's a string bond; I suspect you're talking energy levels of similar order to aluminium smelting.

According to the internet :

“Sodium is significantly cheaper to produce than lithium, with costs for sodium-based materials being about $150 per ton compared to lithium's approximately $15,000 per ton. “

I would call that a significant difference .

 

[Q-Dog]

According to the internet :

“Sodium is significantly cheaper to produce than lithium, with costs for sodium-based materials being about $150 per ton compared to lithium's approximately $15,000 per ton. “

I would call that a significant difference .

That may be true, but it hasn't translated to their products yet.

 

[ConnerLabs]

I have an uninsulated workshop with a distinct lack of heating, that would be too cold to charge LFP for most of the winter. I think battery heaters are a bit of a kludge. Looking forward to trying sodium ion when my current AGM setup dies.

The low voltage at end of discharge is a hassle.

 

[SouthernSolar]

Sodium iron phosphate will improve cycle life, but have even less power density.

Source: my memory of reading article I can’t find now

 

[jgh]

According to the internet :

“Sodium is significantly cheaper to produce than lithium, with costs for sodium-based materials being about $150 per ton compared to lithium's approximately $15,000 per ton. “

My internet differs:

Prices of chemical elements - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

- Sodium 2.57–3.43 USD /kg
- Lithium 81.4–85.6 USD /kg

So that's about 3,000 $/ton vs. 85,000 $/ton for the pure metals.
I wonder what your source is hiding behind "foo-based materials". I'll agree it's a bigger difference than I expected.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

Followup pack teardown. Moderately interesting.

 

[wpns]

Followup pack teardown. Moderately interesting.

Moderately. He sure does make my brain hurt, but that’s YouTube for you. Well, yes, of course, I want to see you unscrew every single fastener in that box.

 

[werepuppy]

Video was lame. The main thing I learned is the unit is harder to tear down than the 100v2, based on bluetti's official 100v2 teardown video.

Particularly, this video claimed it would confirm whether the new unit really had sodium cells inside. But at the end, he got some cylindrical cells out and didn't have a way to identify their chemistry. He didn't seem to know about monitoring the voltage through a discharge cycle.

Video was bad enough to make me want to avoid the channel going forward.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

YT'rs justify a follow-up to a hugely popular vid trying to ride the wave while it's still cresting. I found the overall build quality somewhat satisfying, I have a very small Bluetti E3BA? that seems pedestrian by comparison.