diy solar

diy solar

BMS for 48V bank of EVE 280AH Cells?

apctjb

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
470
Just ordered 32 of the EVE 280AH cells for my first DIY LiFePO4 build for an off grid solar system using two MPP Solar 3KW inverters (paralleled) and 5KW PV array.

First question; which is better, a) two banks of 16 cells, each with a seperate BMS, then connected in parallel (16S,2P); or b) parallel the cells first and then connect in series (2P,16S) with a single BMS?

Second question; any recommendations as to which BMS I should consider getting for my application using the EVE 280AH cells , 16S?
 
Just ordered 32 of the EVE 280AH cells for my first DIY LiFePO4 build for an off grid solar system using two MPP Solar 3KW inverters (paralleled) and 5KW PV array.

First question; which is better, a) two banks of 16 cells, each with a seperate BMS, then connected in parallel (16S,2P); or b) parallel the cells first and then connect in series (2P,16S) with a single BMS?

Second question; any recommendations as to which BMS I should consider getting for my application using the EVE 280AH cells , 16S?
If you want some battery redundancy, I would recommend building two 16s banks each with its own BMS and parallel them. That way if you ever had to perform maintenance on one of the banks, you still could keep the other bank in service. It will cost you the price of an extra BMS but it gives you more flexibility for ongoing maintenance. I use a Chargery BMS8T for my 24V 280ah 8s bank and am happy with it. If you went with Chargery, you would need to use the Chargery BMS16T (x2 if you build two separate banks). Make sure with either configuration, you use high interrupting capability Class T fuses, because you are going to have a very large amount of short circuit current in the event of a close-in fault.
 
Thanks for the response. I took a look at the Chargery BMS, looks nice. Am I correct that it requires an external relay?

What I did not get is why two relays are required, one for discharge over current, and another for charging over current. Couldn't the same relay be used for either condition?
 
I'll chime in as well and strongly suggest two 16S/48V packs in parallel, each with a 16S BMS to manage/monitor all the cells. The redundancy is a key factor, especially if one "Pack" in the battery bank decided to misbehave for some reason. Paralleling Packs is not difficult but can cause problems if not done properly, to that end, Victron wrote up a great guide on wiring your battery packs & banks up properly, here is the link: https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Wiring-Unlimited-EN.pdf

The Chargery BMS uses two relay/contactors, one for charge control, the other for discharge control. In a Common-Port Configuration which shares the same DC LLines for both Charge/Discharge an opti-coupler can be used which accepts both relay signal but only actuates a single relay. This is heavily discussed in the Chargery BMS Thread (see my signature). There is also a page of information related to such in the New Chargery 4.1 Owner's Manual (not available yet). The Amperage handled by a BMS which uses relays can easily exceed those with FETS because the relays/contactors are available from 100A to 1000A DC and so they bear the load, not the actual BMS electronics.

Other "Smart BMS" may be an option as well. I should point out that MOSFET Based BMS' are pretty common and are used by many folks with great success. They do have limitations in so far as Amperage Handling because over 200A things have to become quite monstrous and heat dissipation is an issue, especially for the lower cost ones. With these also you ave to have a certain amount of buffer, for example, if you have 200A continuous you would want at minimum a 250A capable BMS so you stay below the maximum threshold of 250A.

Another BMS worthy of serious consideration is the TinyBMS, LIink Here: https://www.energusps.com/shop/product/tiny-bms-s516-150a-750a-36?category=4 which is a very capable & solid BMS that also is very flexible & configurable, depending on your use case, needs and wants. NOTE the prices there are shown in € Euros

A consideration prior to buying more gear. 280AH EVE Cell pack can accept a heavy charge as well as discharge @ 1C which is 280A. It does take a significant amount of juice to charge these babies! The deeper the discharge the longer it takes to charge them up. Quite often people forget to calculate their solar charging capacity based on the LOWEST SUN HOUR DAYS which depends on your locality. This Solar Angle Calculator is lightweight but VERY handy, just select your location details from the dropdown lists and it will give you the basics without much fussing around. LINK HERE: http://www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

Hope it helps, Good Luck.
Steve
 
A 5kw 48v 'all-in-one' itself consumes 25w, a somewhat unfortunate fact. With new cells in the 48v pack why add to this misery by having 2 relays that also consume xx wattage? The new cells should stay in ~balance by themselves for the most part allowing a light-weight relay-less BMS to play umpire for the first few innings. [discuss].
--
 
If you do it correct your relays will only consume less than 5 amps. It's us probably safe to go BMS less but fir the small percentage if the battery price I believe it is worth both the monetary and energy cost.

I like to know exactly how my cells are acting. But that's just me. If I set it up and went away for 5 years there is no fun.
 
Ok, so if you want to be able to discharge @1C the only BMSen available in the +300ah realm require the safety of relays or breakers that necessarily use some power themselves.

What if you went away for 5 weeks, would you leave the system running?
--
 
Ok, so if you want to be able to discharge @1C the only BMSen available in the +300ah realm require the safety of relays or breakers that necessarily use some power themselves.

What if you went away for 5 weeks, would you leave the system running?
--
Depends. On my off grid place I turn inverter off but do have DC only loads.

I would have no problem leaving the MPP on if it were necessary. That being said I planned my system so it wouldn't be necessary. I also do not use an all in one.
 
Thanks for the response. I took a look at the Chargery BMS, looks nice. Am I correct that it requires an external relay?

What I did not get is why two relays are required, one for discharge over current, and another for charging over current. Couldn't the same relay be used for either condition?

An external main relay is required with the Chargery. In order to save amp hours I use one 500 amp main relay with a low amp coil (EV200AAANA, here's link to datasheet: ) with two inexpensive low power SSRs (one for "Charge" and one for "Discharge"). I use the Chargery "Charge" and "Discharge" 12V signals to power the SSRs, and I have the output of the SSRs wired in series with the coil of my EV200 across my main bus. The Chargery "Charge" and "Discharge" leads can not be put in series directly to power a single main relay coil so you have to use the two SSRs to power the main relay coil. If either of the Chargery inputs on either of the SSRs goes to zero for an alarm situation, the SSR(s) open and power is cut to the coil and the main relay drops out. This works great and I never have to worry about overloading the Charge or Discharge leads from the Chargery, plus I have 24V (in your case 48V) to drive my EV200 coil from my main bus. Make sure you use a relay whose coil can handle 48V if you wire it in this fashion. I also power the Chargery externally from my 24V main bus connected after the battery cutoff switch but ahead of the main relay. That way the BMS stays on if the main relay drops, but shuts down if I manually turn off the battery cutoff switch for maintenance. See attached rough sketch.

IMG_3300.jpg
 
Great responses; thanks.

Some additional questions.

Can the Chargery operate if the external relays are not present?

The MMP Solar Inverters are the sole source of charge and discharge current, with there own current limits/shut down, which raises the question of if the BMS relays are really necessary in my application and I prefer to keep things simple. So was thinking of using the Chargery to monitor and balance, but not disconnect. (location is Mexico, low temp cutoff not a concern).

If external relays must be present for the Chargery to operate, could one use small solid state relays which would switch on/off the MPP Inverter?


And a dumb question; as large amperage relays are expensive and have tare losses, why design a BMS that requires 2 separate relays in series, one for charge current, the other for discharge current, when a single relay is all that is required to open the circuit and disconnect the battery bank?


Chargery schematic.png
 
Vacation mode:

1. Turn OFF inverter/all-in-one.
2. Leave solar array(s) connected.
3. Disconnect battery bank.

What could go wrong?
--
 
It will work fine without the relays or the shunt.

OK, Good to know!

Can it also operate with a single relay, wired as shown in the diagram above (relay triggered by either the charge or discharge condition)

Thanks
 
I guess the problem of disconnecting the battery when away is loss of any remote monitoring and no PV charging. My understanding with the MPP Solar all in one is even if you turn off the inverter switch, the internal MPPT charge controller will continue to operate and provide charge if the battery remains connected.

Curious to understand the reasons you would not leave the inverter on when away? In my case I will be gone 6 months of the year and thinking I leave the inverter on to power security cameras and router/wifi so can monitor things when away. I will have power to burn when gone anyway.
 
So leave battery bank (LNM) connected?

I still have grid for the house; solar is to charge EVs and dump any excess into h2oheater/hydronic. EVs could be maintained on the grid or else left disconnected. Six months is more than a vacation. 8^)
--
 
Last edited:
I don't use an all in one so I turn inverter off just because it is not needed while I am away. Like I said before I would have no problem leaving the All in one running especially if it gave me the ability to remote monitor
 
Back
Top