Budget "smart" 12V batteries all have the same cycling issue!

[Will Prowse]

Okay, Wattcycle has a "fix" at least with beta software update. Look at earlier post by Will. I'm currently testing the "fix" with my setup; a Mini 314 smart that is connected in parrallel with 3 x 280+ batteries (3x dumb and one daly bms diy). With my usual load of approximately 1,400 watts it's works but hesitates for maybe 5 seconds and dumps large amount of current. This might be because voltage of wattcycle is 13.9v and my other smart battery was at 13.5v. After it's equalized all batteries share similar loads. I'm going to test smaller loads to see it's interaction.

Also my LiTime smart battery doesn't respond at all with my current setup. It just stays locked at 100% even after I cycle the rest of the bank to 50%, back to full and try discharging once again.

Wow!! Good to know. This is why I was waiting for more people to test it before I drew a conclusion. Yikes.

 

[akathebarf]

Okay, Wattcycle has a "fix" at least with beta software update. Look at earlier post by Will. I'm currently testing the "fix" with my setup; a Mini 314 smart that is connected in parrallel with 3 x 280+ batteries (3x dumb and one daly bms diy). With my usual load of approximately 1,400 watts it's works but hesitates for maybe 5 seconds and dumps large amount of current. This might be because voltage of wattcycle is 13.9v and my other smart battery was at 13.5v. After it's equalized all batteries share similar loads. I'm going to test smaller loads to see it's interaction.

Also my LiTime smart battery doesn't respond at all with my current setup. It just stays locked at 100% even after I cycle the rest of the bank to 50%, back to full and try discharging once again.

Hope it works, low loads will probably show if it does.

 

[Fmster]

I did more tests today on my 314Ah WattCycle smart mini with the beta app. Note: I never tested or used this battery on this setup previously. So I don't know if it was a problem. I only experience issues with a LiTime 230Ah Smart which was hung up at 100% and therefore removed from the setup.

Setup:
- 4x 12.8v batteries; 314Ah WattCycle smart mini, 280Ah DIY EVE cells with Daly 200A BMS, Humsienk 300Ah 200a BMS (non mini), 300Ah WattCycle non smart (actually 280Ah)
- 3000w Renogy 12v inverter with 250A T class fuse with 1/0 cable.
- 250A MRBF fuse for each battery with 1/0 cable (ranging from 3-4')

For test I only monitored the two smart batteries; Daly 280Ah and Wattcycle 314Ah thru their smart app connected to Bluetooth.

Test 1: 1500w load
-Daly BMS reacted first within 30 seconds with modest 44A load.
- Wattcycle reacted about 1 minute later with a large load, started around 110A and dropped to 90A for about 20 seconds.

Test 2: 200w load
- Daly BMS reacted at almost 2 minutes with load of 60A.
- WattCycle reacted later but didn't capute it. (Reconnected to app 8 minutes later and was already at stable load)

Test 3: 200w load (monitoring WattCycle only; reconnecting to battery every minute.)
- WattCycle reacted at 4min 30s with load of 32A.

Note: all data was based on app status which could be delayed and not accurate. See pictures.

Based on testing, both smart batteries show some delay, which could be application response time. The WattCycle is slower to respond vs the Daly BMS, resulting in large surge especially on 1000w+ load.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Typical experience with WattCycle for me with the cutting out like that as other batteries carry the full load.

Pro tip: the app itself is buggy. Rather than just switching between apps, kill the apps. Don’t switch between batteries if you have more than one watt cycle joined it to the app. Ideally you would use separate phones or tablets each one connected to its own battery and never switched between batteries. I took over 300 pictures testing my watt cycle over a one week period, and verified that the app is caching data. Hope this helps.
If you have a clamp meter to verify current flow I’d recommend that. Also a Victron shunt to record what you see. Both then could be used to validate the buggy app data you’re getting.

 

[Fmster]

Typical experience with WattCycle for me with the cutting out like that as other batteries carry the full load.

Pro tip: the app itself is buggy. Rather than just switching between apps, kill the apps. Don’t switch between batteries if you have more than one watt cycle joined it to the app. Ideally you would use separate phones or tablets each one connected to its own battery and never switched between batteries. I took over 300 pictures testing my watt cycle over a one week period, and verified that the app is caching data. Hope this helps.
If you have a clamp meter to verify current flow I’d recommend that. Also a Victron shunt to record what you see. Both then could be used to validate the buggy app data you’re getting.

Have you done any testing with the beta app? Any differences?

 

[WorldwideDave]

Have you done any testing with the beta app? Any differences?

Gosh no. Returned and got money back. Well documented.

 

[Will Prowse]

Whenever a company says it will take a month to fix a software issue, I usually expect 3 months for it to be a stable fix.

If I bought one, I would return it.

They could have a fix already in production, but they are not mentioning it till they sell the current inventory. Who knows.

 

[Fmster]

For my specific situation I plan to hold on to it. This is backup system used to feed my main 48v system, which also powers my small AC unit during summer. I'm glad i returned the 2nd 314 mini that cost me more.

I also bought it from some shady retailer on Ali for a good price. Retailer not around anymore.

I just hope LiTime has fix. Their battery pretty much useless as of right now. Going to be reaching out to them to see what they say.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Race to the bottom on these low cost batteries.

 

[fetcher]

All batteries identified as having this problem have non-JBD BMS'es, right? I was considering (4) "Elefast" brand 12V / 330Ah batteries, as sold here, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0FGVNHFM8 for a 24V bank, when my AGM lead-acids need replacement - would wire as 2s2p for 24V at 660Ah. The listing claims they use a "JBD-Sp04S034-SV1.3" BMS... if this is accurate, are they immune?

 

[Madcodger]

I have no 12V systems at present but was just asked by a friend about what lithium batteries with heater to purchase for his camper. I told him I'd ask the brain trust here. What say ye, friends? What does the brain trust currently recommend, to avoid these types of issues? This gent is very non-technical so "set it and forget it" would be best.

 

[Sweet Tatorman]

I have no 12V systems at present but was just asked by a friend about what lithium battery with heater to purchase for his camper. I told him I'd ask the brain trust here. What say ye, friends? What does the brain trust currently recommend, to avoid these types of issues? This gent is very non-technical so "set it and forget it" would be best.

The issues being discussed in this thread involve use of multiple batteries in parallel. If your friend intends to buy just one battery, he should be immune from these issues.

 

[Madcodger]

The issues being discussed in this thread involve use of multiple batteries in parallel. If your friend intends to buy just one battery, he should be immune from these issues.

Yes, but he says he may need more than one, and therein lies the issue. Corrected the post to say batteries (plural). Thanks.

 

[fuzzmunky415]

All batteries identified as having this problem have non-JBD BMS'es, right?

This is the kind of question I would like answers to from those who discovered/ tore down/verified this issue. It would have been helpful information to have for end users.

 

[akathebarf]

My eco worthy do not have this problem does it have a JBD BMS?

 

[HRTKD]

All batteries identified as having this problem have non-JBD BMS'es, right? I was considering (4) "Elefast" brand 12V / 330Ah batteries, as sold here, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0FGVNHFM8 for a 24V bank, when my AGM lead-acids need replacement - would wire as 2s2p for 24V at 660Ah. The listing claims they use a "JBD-Sp04S034-SV1.3" BMS... if this is accurate, are they immune?

I have no 12V systems at present but was just asked by a friend about what lithium batteries with heater to purchase for his camper. I told him I'd ask the brain trust here. What say ye, friends? What does the brain trust currently recommend, to avoid these types of issues? This gent is very non-technical so "set it and forget it" would be best.

Please start new threads for these questions. If you want to know which batteries NOT to use at this time, then just look at the posts in this thread for the batteries that are exhibiting the problem.

 

[WorldwideDave]

I created that thread about 2 months ago. Search for batteries with JBD BMS

 

[WorldwideDave]

Not sure. I also have JBD smart bms (4 of them now) connected to 100Ah 12V batteries and never seen the issue.
My CHINS battery was not JBD.
The Poeruni 48V battery I just bought we will find out together when it arrives soon.

Update… It did not have a Bluetooth connectable BMS, and the 48 V 100 amp power battery. I was only able to get about 73 amp hours out of.

 

[StuzaCtj78]

A single series string of batteries won't have this problem as each battery in a series must have the same current as each other battery. Once a battery (with (CHG=OFF)) sees a discharge current (of a few Amps) the bms sets (CHG=ON). Batteries in Parallel don't have to discharge with the same current, as Will Prowse demonstrated with the "Current Sharing" videos (Feb-2022). With a 200A load, the Parallel set of batteries could add their currents up to make the 200A for example (47 + 43 + 32 + 38 + 40) = 200.

I don't know what you were doing with your 48V/51.2V LiTime batteries in parallel as you did not say.

The paralleled 51.2V LiTimes are attached to a OUPES Mega2

 

[bedward4]

Apologies if this is not the right place to post this. I don't know if it's related or a similar problem. I am having seemingly random total DC shutdowns for a second or two about once or twice a week, and I'm not using "smart" batteries. I am using two LiTime 12V 230Ah Plus Low-Temp Protection LiFePO4 batteries, connected to the bus bars. The voltage at shutdown is between 90% and 100%. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

 

[WorldwideDave]

Apologies if this is not the right place to post this. I don't know if it's related or a similar problem. I am having seemingly random total DC shutdowns for a second or two about once or twice a week, and I'm not using "smart" batteries. I am using two LiTime 12V 230Ah Plus Low-Temp Protection LiFePO4 batteries, connected to the bus bars. The voltage at shutdown is between 90% and 100%. Anyone else seeing the same thing?

I think this is the right spot for this - this is where all the budget battery issues shutting on and off in parallel are being discussed. You are running them in parallel at 12V, yes? Not running 24V setup?

 

[bedward4]

I think this is the right spot for this - this is where all the budget battery issues shutting on and off in parallel are being discussed. You are running them in parallel at 12V, yes? Not running 24V setup?

Yes. Running in parallel at 12v.

 

[genarokr]

Tonight I posted this video:

If you are cycling multiple "smart" batteries in parallel, they will disconnect from the system and take turns to run the loads. Causing a massive imbalance and current sharing issues.

Then in the comments of my video, I had multiple viewers mention that they are having this same problem with other brand "smart" batteries:
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Holy cow!

I think the reason people are complaining about the watt cycle more is because a lot of people own them. But it seems like all of these brands are using the same BMS and software.

If anyone else is having this issue, post it down below!

Hi everyone - I bought two Humsienk 12V 100Ah "Max Plus Smart" batteries (Bluetooth) at USD $135 each. I recently saw a video showing a problem with Wattcycle batteries when used in parallel, and the video suggested the same BMS could cause the same issue in other "Smart" brands.

Has anyone tested Humsienk Smart batteries in parallel? Do they share current properly, or did you observe any unexpected behavior (one battery doing most of the work, BMS disconnects, odd discharge patterns)?

I asked the shop and they replied: "Our products currently do not exhibit these issues. When performing parallel connections, you may wish to wait a moment. The batteries will continue to discharge."

Any real-world test results, firmware/ firmware-version info, or tips are appreciated - thanks!

 

[akathebarf]

Hi everyone - I bought two Humsienk 12V 100Ah "Max Plus Smart" batteries (Bluetooth) at USD $135 each. I recently saw a video showing a problem with Wattcycle batteries when used in parallel, and the video suggested the same BMS could cause the same issue in other "Smart" brands.

Has anyone tested Humsienk Smart batteries in parallel? Do they share current properly, or did you observe any unexpected behavior (one battery doing most of the work, BMS disconnects, odd discharge patterns)?

I asked the shop and they replied: "Our products currently do not exhibit these issues. When performing parallel connections, you may wish to wait a moment. The batteries will continue to discharge."

Any real-world test results, firmware/ firmware-version info, or tips are appreciated - thanks!

My eco-worthy seems to work fine if you are looking for batteries:

 

[bearjosh]

Just to add to the list of complaints I'm having the parallel battery issue with my 12V LiTime Smart Bluetooth Group 24 batteries, where only 1 battery is taking the whole load while the other battery sits at 100%. I haven't been able to find a solution to get both batteries to take the load. Has anyone found a solution for the LiTime parallel batteries yet?