Building a small Victron system, have some questions before I order everything

[ADDvanced]

Goal: Small off grid system for shed, WITH REMOTE MONITORING CAPABILITES (have cell service)

System:

PV 690 watts (3 230 watt panels) hooked up in series for a max of 89.8 volts, 7.78 Amps.

Victron Blue Solar 100v/15A Charge Controller

2 200Ah Ampere Time Lithium Ion Batteries

500A Smart Shunt

COMS:
Victron Cerbo S GX (more minimal one)
4g Router


My question is a lot of victron products network with the VE Direct wiring system, but I am NOT seeing that port on the 100/15 Blue Solar Charge controller, and in the documentation it only mentions getting a bluetooth dongle. Does this mean I need a bluetooth adaptor to connect the MPPT charger to the GX module? It's very unclear. Thanks!

 

[sunshine_eggo]

10V of margin is VERY low. If it ever gets below freezing, you'll exceed 100Voc. Voltage limits are a NEVER EXCEED value. Not, "a little over is okay" situation.

Don't confuse PV amps with battery amps.

Assuming you have either a 12 or 24V system:

690W/12V = 57.5A max (min battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)
690w/14.4V = 47.9A min (max battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)

Your 15A MPPT is 15A OUTPUT.

12V * 15A = 180W (2X on a 24V system)
14.4V * 15A = 216W (2X on a 24V system)

You will not be able to capture your array power on a 12 or 24V system.

Recommend a 100/50 and again, Voc is dangerously high.

Need VE.Direct EA from shunt and MPPT to Cerbo.

EDIT: This you?

https://www.youtube.com/@ADDvanced/featured

 

[z_zk_z]

Deleted

 

[z_zk_z]

Deleted

 

[ADDvanced]

10V of margin is VERY low. If it ever gets below freezing, you'll exceed 100Voc. Voltage limits are a NEVER EXCEED value. Not, "a little over is okay" situation.

Don't confuse PV amps with battery amps.

Assuming you have either a 12 or 24V system:

690W/12V = 57.5A max (min battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)
690w/14.4V = 47.9A min (max battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)

Your 15A MPPT is 15A OUTPUT.

12V * 15A = 180W (2X on a 24V system)
14.4V * 15A = 216W (2X on a 24V system)

You will not be able to capture your array power on a 12 or 24V system.

Recommend a 100/50 and again, Voc is dangerously high.

Need VE.Direct EA from shunt and MPPT to Cerbo.

EDIT: This you?

https://www.youtube.com/@ADDvanced/featured

Right but if I run my panels in series, like they are, that would be 89v at 7.78Amps, right? If I ran all the panels in parallel, then I would need the larger charger? I'm confused about this.

Yeah, that's my channel. Appreciate the help. If I wanted to avoid going over 100Voc, what victron charger would I need to get then?

This one? https://www.amazon.com/Victron-SmartSolar-Charge-Controller-150V/dp/B07B4KF7LY/

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Right but if I run my panels in series, like they are, that would be 89v at 7.78Amps, right?

Again, the chargers are rated by output, i.e., 15A output.

15A * 14.6V = 219W (220W per spec)

Check for yourself.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-75-10,-75-15,-100-15,-100-20_48V-EN.pdf

220W max at 12V and 440W max at 24V.

If I ran all the panels in parallel, then I would need the larger charger? I'm confused about this.

No. Either way, you need an output of

690W/12V = 57.5A max (min battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)
690w/14.4V = 47.9A min (max battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)

You still haven't indicated whether you have a 12V or 24V system. Hopefully, I've demonstrated my point further by including the datasheet for the charger you selected.

Yeah, that's my channel. Appreciate the help.

Cool. We've encountered each other twice before over the years. So far, you think I'm full of shit. Let's see how it goes here. ?

If I wanted to avoid going over 100Voc, what victron charger would I need to get then?

150/50. Get your wallet out. It's going to hurt.

Better to get a 100/50 and go 3P assuming 12V. If 24V, you need another plan.

What is panel Voc and Vmp? 3S yielding 89.8V is atypical unless that's Vmp on 60 cell panels.

 

[Rocketman]

With 690w of solar power you probably want a bigger mppt than a 100/15.

If 12v system - it can harvest 220w
If a 24v system 440w

You may want to think about a mppt 150/45.

Also get the smart solar mppt’s - they are much easier to program.

Good Luck

 

[ADDvanced]

Again, the chargers are rated by output, i.e., 15A output.

15A * 14.6V = 219W (220W per spec)

Check for yourself.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-SmartSolar-charge-controller-MPPT-75-10,-75-15,-100-15,-100-20_48V-EN.pdf

View attachment 135711

220W max at 12V and 440W max at 24V.



No. Either way, you need an output of

690W/12V = 57.5A max (min battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)
690w/14.4V = 47.9A min (max battery voltage) (half on a 24V system)

You still haven't indicated whether you have a 12V or 24V system. Hopefully, I've demonstrated my point further by including the datasheet for the charger you selected.



Cool. We've encountered each other twice before over the years. So far, you think I'm full of shit. Let's see how it goes here. ?



150/50. Get your wallet out. It's going to hurt.

Better to get a 100/50 and go 3P assuming 12V. If 24V, you need another plan.

What is panel Voc and Vmp? 3S yielding 89.8V is atypical unless that's Vmp on 60 cell panels.

Right, but with MPPT, you can over panel the charger with no detriment if you don't exceed voltage input limit, right? I get that it would only be 15A/220watts output tho. It's a 12v system at the moment, which I plan on keeping since the security system runs off from 12v as well.

I don't think you're full of shit. I built this whole system already using renogy but never again, tearing it all out and selling the garbage on ebay. I actively hate that company now.

I have 3 panels with these specs:

 

[pollenface]

I'd get 3x 75/10 controllers, it will cost about the same as a big controller and give you some redundancy options and also help with shading.

Get the smartsolar (with Bluetooth)

Also get a Victron Battery Sense module to use low temp shut off. The controllers will also synchronise.

 

[Rocketman]

Danger!
Your Voc is 37v - three in series will be 111v - which will fry a 100v (max) mppt.

You need to put those three panels in parallel or get a 150/35 mppt. Or get one more panel and put them in 2s2p.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Right, but with MPPT, you can over panel the charger with no detriment if you don't exceed voltage input limit, right? I get that it would only be 15A/220watts output tho. It's a 12v system at the moment, which I plan on keeping since the security system runs off from 12v as well.

You didn't indicate that you wanted to over-panel. That would be fine except for what was mentioned by @Rocketman ... Voc will put you over 100V - POP! goes the MPPT.

You would need a 100/30 to both improve yield and handle max PV input current for 3P.

I don't think you're full of shit.

Maybe not about this.

I built this whole system already using renogy but never again, tearing it all out and selling the garbage on ebay. I actively hate that company now.

I have 3 panels with these specs:
View attachment 135723

That's what I thought - 60 cell Vmp gets you 89.4V. Voc is what blows controllers.

I'd get 3x 75/10 controllers, it will cost about the same as a big controller and give you some redundancy options and also help with shading.

This would work, but it would put you at 4 VE.Direct devices. Would need VE.Direct to USB for anything you can't get on the GX VE.Direct.

Get the smartsolar (with Bluetooth)

Yep.

Also get a Victron Battery Sense module to use low temp shut off. The controllers will also synchronise.

Nope. GX is better. Get a temp probe for the smartshunt and enable DVCC with SVS, SCS and SCS enabled.

Controllers in VE.Smart network is a good idea though.

 

[ADDvanced]

Danger!
Your Voc is 37v - three in series will be 111v - which will fry a 100v (max) mppt.

You need to put those three panels in parallel or get a 150/35 mppt. Or get one more panel and put them in 2s2p.

Any benefit to 150/45 or 150/60 with my current panel setup? Because I'm not changing it, it's already up

 

[ADDvanced]

You didn't indicate that you wanted to over-panel. That would be fine except for what was mentioned by @Rocketman ... Voc will put you over 100V - POP! goes the MPPT.

You would need a 100/30 to both improve yield and handle max PV input current for 3P.

But you just said I need 150 so I don't blow it during winter. So a 150/35 or 150/45?

Maybe not about this.

I used to be really abrasive, sometimes I still am; I apologize if I've offended you in the past. Part of being a good human is evolving and always striving to be better to each other.

That's what I thought - 60 cell Vmp gets you 89.4V. Voc is what blows controllers.

So 150/35/45/60. Main benefit w the larger rated controllers = faster charge? Most of the year, it'll be overkill, but I'm at high elevation and in winter the days are short, peak sun is short, so maybe 60A might be worth it to get max sun when it's available.

Nope. GX is better. Get a temp probe for the smartshunt and enable DVCC with SVS, SCS and SCS enabled.

Controllers in VE.Smart network is a good idea though.

I have already ordered the GX and a smart shunt. The batteries have built in BMS and self-heating, so .... does it matter to get the temp probe? I read the GX already has a temp sensor for itself, but if the batteries can heat themselves idk why a temp sensor would be useful.

Woah woah woah slow down on the acronyms, I don't know what any of that is. I'll get to googlin'.

 

[Rocketman]

You have 690w available:

A 150/35 will max charge at 500w
A 150/45 will max charge at 650w
A 150/60 will max charge at 860w

Any input that generates an output above those numbers gets clipped - I.e. over paneled.

If you will not be adding another panel in the future- then you don’t need the 150/60.

The 150/45 will probably never be clipped. It is just about ideally sized.

The 150/35 will be a bit cheaper- about $60. But may often be clipped.

You need to “look into the future” and decide will your future energy needs be fulfilled with the unit that can only charge at 35amps or may you need a bit more - able to charge up to 45a during ideal sun.

If you can find and install one more of that same panel (in the future), the 150/45 will increase its production with one more panel (because then you will be over paneled), the 150/35 would hardly benefit from another panel.

Good luck with the decision on the best unit to buy.

I second Sunshine’s thought about getting the temp sensor for the Smartshunt. That is the best approach. That will enable you to turn on a setting in the Cerbo called DVCC ( I don’t remember what it stands for).

What it does is pass the temperature, voltage and current values from the Smartshunt to any charging device - The mppt’s. So they can change their charge states on the best - most accurate data. You will also be able to see that data on the VRM (internet) portal.

Also, contact your Victron dealer before buying just to make sure you are not missing something (like a cable) or a needed feature that’s on a different unit.

Good Luck

 

[Rocketman]

The temp sensor can be useful because then you can have the mppt’s not try to charge if the battery is colder than ___degrees (you set the number). It can be a double check safety feature.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

But you just said I need 150 so I don't blow it during winter. So a 150/35 or 150/45?

Rewiring an existing 3S array to 3P is generally pretty easy as it's just wires and connectors and a few $10 fuses. If you want 3S and have the coin, 150/45 would be my choice.

I used to be really abrasive, sometimes I still am; I apologize if I've offended you in the past. Part of being a good human is evolving and always striving to be better to each other.

LOL. On the contrary. We are cast in similar molds! Check out the first line of my signature.

So 150/35/45/60. Main benefit w the larger rated controllers = faster charge? Most of the year, it'll be overkill, but I'm at high elevation and in winter the days are short, peak sun is short, so maybe 60A might be worth it to get max sun when it's available

Likely little advantage of 60 over 45 as your array will rarely put out more than 50A, particularly in the worst case you describe. If you think you'll want to add more in the future, no harm in going up.

I'm running a 250/100 because I only have half of my array up, but the whole 6kW is going to need the 100A controller.

I have already ordered the GX and a smart shunt. The batteries have built in BMS and self-heating, so .... does it matter to get the temp probe?

It doesn't MATTER, but if you're like me, you'll enjoy KNOWING what the battery temperature is at the terminal.

I read the GX already has a temp sensor for itself, but if the batteries can heat themselves idk why a temp sensor would be useful.

IIRC, the Cerbo-S does not have the option of a temperature sensor. I don't know if they have an internal sensor or not, but that would only get you ambient, not battery.

Woah woah woah slow down on the acronyms, I don't know what any of that is. I'll get to googlin'.

LOL...

DVCC = Distributed Voltage and Current Control
S*S = Shared * Sense; * = voltage, current, temperature.

They're literally presented as the abbreviations in the GX menu, so I was being explicit.

11. DVCC - Distributed Voltage and Current Control

www.victronenergy.com

 

[HRTKD]

I have a contrary take on the temp sensor issue. He has internally heated batteries. That type of system needs a charge so it can run the battery warmer. If the charge devices cut off charging because the ambient (or battery) temperature is below the threshold set on those devices then the battery warmer never gets a charge.

I have the BMV-712, the temperature probe for it as well as two temperature probes plugged into the Cerbo GX. However, I have an external warming system for my batteries that keeps them warm 35°F to 45°F in the winter. In my case, the temperature thresholds in my charging devices are CYA because they would only come into play should the warming system fail.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I have a contrary take on the temp sensor issue. He has internally heated batteries. That type of system needs a charge so it can run the battery warmer. If the charge devices cut off charging because the ambient (or battery) temperature is below the threshold set on those devices then the battery warmer never gets a charge.

I have the BMV-712, the temperature probe for it as well as two temperature probes plugged into the Cerbo GX. However, I have an external warming system for my batteries that keeps them warm 35°F to 45°F in the winter. In my case, the temperature thresholds in my charging devices are CYA because they would only come into play should the warming system fail.

One can have a temperature sensor without enabling low temp charging protection.

I see it as confirming that the heaters are working properly. One could see when the heaters actually cycle on and off.

 

[ADDvanced]

Victron 150/45 on order. Thank you guys, I really appreciate it.

 

[ADDvanced]

Alright, need help, need to find a 500a smart shunt somewhere that actually ships it in a reasonable time period. Amazon has been dicking me around long enough and now it won't get here in time. Anyone have any leads on a victron dealer that ships fast?