Building the sickest ® VAWT ever. Brilliant minds unite please!!

[brandnewb]

Keep in mind that you'll run into the same issue as a motor with that many poles: you have to get the energy in (or out) and you're dealing with the fact that you're dealing with (derived fromFaraday's law) v(t) = L di/dt, meaning that as you energize and de-energize coils you have a factor di/dt that is not instantaneous and thus impacts how fast you can do this. The more poles, the less time you have. Also, be careful when simulating this that you don't just look at the magnetic flux. You can have an excellent magnetic flux but no way to get energy out of it with too many poles - it has to be a dynamic simulation, with the speed of the rotor and the di/dt factor when doing energy calculations, since energy stored in a coil E = 1/2 * L * I².

I am soooo unable to grasp that ;( I tried but nah. I am a simple man with simple goals. Could you please translate for the rest of humanity?

 

[brandnewb]

Yet another blow to my ego. @boondox this is perfect example

I thought to have ordered 2mx2mx2cm of rubber sheets for the airfoil.

Only to get this

 

[brandnewb]

Back to the drawing board: (

 

[brandnewb]

2

Yet another blow to my ego. @boondox this is perfect example

I thought to have ordered 2mx2mx2cm of rubber sheets for the airfoil.

Only to get this

which is 200mmx200mmx20mm

 

[brandnewb]

Does anyone concur or am I way out of bounds here?

Come on gals and boys. Without community backup this project will lead to certain disaster

 

[Hedges]

Using manual labour this project is going NO where really fast when executed by my earthshaking(TM) hands.
I tried using a multi tool, I tried sharpening a chizzle and then banging on it using HULK force (TM), even tried cutting my way through using a stanley knife.

Tried all of the above on both hardboard 3.2mm (which is not hard at all ) and some xps insulation.

I use a router.
With four edges framed to guide router, it will keep the bit within a shape, e.g. to make a rectangular hole (with radius corners due to bit size). Three edges for your outside notches.

 

[Hedges]

If you have the insane idea you might get 6000W out of a 60 RPM alternator, that would be 700 ft/pounds of torque.

Here is an idea to gauge where it is headed.

To deliver a particular amount of power, need to achieve the force you've calculated.
Hold a pair of magnets spaced apart as far as the air (or copper, or plastic or OSB) gap they will see in this alternator.
Measure the force between them. Multiply by number of magnet pairs around the armature. That is an estimate of the force the armature will experience. Multiply by radius, and use that as foot-pounds.

From Holy Bee's equation, estimate watts. It seems if you don't get 700 pounds / 96 magnets = 7.3 pounds/magnet with that airgap, you won't be able to get 6000W at that RPM. 0.73 pounds/magnet for 600W.

If the result is too low, try reducing that large (1"?) airgap to 1/16th of an inch. And use a steel band as pole piece from outer surface of each magnet around to outer surface of other magnet. (i.e. make a pair of tweezers with magnets pinching together the tip. Functionally, a horseshoe magnet that is flexible.) Measure the force required to hold tip of tweezers 1/16th of an inch apart.

If results are good now, you need magnetic pieces inside the stator windings to reach from almost touching one rotor magnet to almost touching the other. And, disc pole pieces to gang the outside face of armature magnets.

Note that the forces you measure will attempt to bend armature discs so they crash into the stator. And vibration will build, helping to close the gap. They should be as close as possible without every colliding.

 

[brandnewb]

I use a router.

Here is an idea to gauge where it is headed.

To deliver a particular amount of power, need to achieve the force you've calculated.
Hold a pair of magnets spaced apart as far as the air (or copper, or plastic or OSB) gap they will see in this alternator.
Measure the force between them. Multiply by number of magnet pairs around the armature. That is an estimate of the force the armature will experience. Multiply by radius, and use that as foot-pounds.

From Holy Bee's equation, estimate watts. It seems if you don't get 700 pounds / 96 magnets = 7.3 pounds/magnet with that airgap, you won't be able to get 6000W at that RPM. 0.73 pounds/magnet for 600W.

If the result is too low, try reducing that large (1"?) airgap to 1/16th of an inch. And use a steel band as pole piece from outer surface of each magnet around to outer surface of other magnet. (i.e. make a pair of tweezers with magnets pinching together the tip. Functionally, a horseshoe magnet that is flexible.) Measure the force required to hold tip of tweezers 1/16th of an inch apart.

If results are good now, you need magnetic pieces inside the stator windings to reach from almost touching one rotor magnet to almost touching the other. And, disc pole pieces to gang the outside face of armature magnets.

Note that the forces you measure will attempt to bend armature discs so they crash into the stator. And vibration will build, helping to close the gap. They should be as close as possible without every colliding.

Yes, thanks brother, now we are getting somewhere. However I am from the wrong side of the pond thus do not think well in thumbs, elbows, knees and what have you
This is me poking fun back at you my brother.

Anyway, I'll get right on the matter first thing tomorrow

 

[wholybee]

Here is an idea to gauge where it is headed.

To deliver a particular amount of power, need to achieve the force you've calculated.
Hold a pair of magnets spaced apart as far as the air (or copper, or plastic or OSB) gap they will see in this alternator.
Measure the force between them. Multiply by number of magnet pairs around the armature. That is an estimate of the force the armature will experience. Multiply by radius, and use that as foot-pounds.

From Holy Bee's equation, estimate watts. It seems if you don't get 700 pounds / 96 magnets = 7.3 pounds/magnet with that airgap, you won't be able to get 6000W at that RPM. 0.73 pounds/magnet for 600W.

If the result is too low, try reducing that large (1"?) airgap to 1/16th of an inch. And use a steel band as pole piece from outer surface of each magnet around to outer surface of other magnet. (i.e. make a pair of tweezers with magnets pinching together the tip. Functionally, a horseshoe magnet that is flexible.) Measure the force required to hold tip of tweezers 1/16th of an inch apart.

If results are good now, you need magnetic pieces inside the stator windings to reach from almost touching one rotor magnet to almost touching the other. And, disc pole pieces to gang the outside face of armature magnets.

Note that the forces you measure will attempt to bend armature discs so they crash into the stator. And vibration will build, helping to close the gap. They should be as close as possible without every colliding.

Some interesting ideas, but not how it works. Torque is a rotational force. It doesn't directly compared to the force holding 2 magnets together.

Also, its the interaction between the magnets and the coil. The number of turns and size of the wire are critical.

brandnewb several links to technical information have been posted and you respond you don't understand it. If you don't stop building and start studying, there is no way you will succeed building an insanely™ awesome © alternator. It will probably work to some extent, but not very well.

Here is an idea to gauge where it is headed.

To deliver a particular amount of power, need to achieve the force you've calculated.
Hold a pair of magnets spaced apart as far as the air (or copper, or plastic or OSB) gap they will see in this alternator.
Measure the force between them. Multiply by number of magnet pairs around the armature. That is an estimate of the force the armature will experience. Multiply by radius, and use that as foot-pounds.

From Holy Bee's equation, estimate watts. It seems if you don't get 700 pounds / 96 magnets = 7.3 pounds/magnet with that airgap, you won't be able to get 6000W at that RPM. 0.73 pounds/magnet for 600W.

If the result is too low, try reducing that large (1"?) airgap to 1/16th of an inch. And use a steel band as pole piece from outer surface of each magnet around to outer surface of other magnet. (i.e. make a pair of tweezers with magnets pinching together the tip. Functionally, a horseshoe magnet that is flexible.) Measure the force required to hold tip of tweezers 1/16th of an inch apart.

If results are good now, you need magnetic pieces inside the stator windings to reach from almost touching one rotor magnet to almost touching the other. And, disc pole pieces to gang the outside face of armature magnets.

Note that the forces you measure will attempt to bend armature discs so they crash into the stator. And vibration will build, helping to close the gap. They should be as close as possible without every colliding.

Foot pounds is a rotational force. You can't estimate it as you describe.

700 ft lbs is more torque than the 400hp engine in my car produces. It is an immense amount of torque.

70 ft lbs will exceed the structural strength of the frame using the construction being applied.

I just want to be sure your expectations are reasonable. I think 50W of output from this project is reasonable.

 

[brandnewb]

brandnewb several links to technical information have been posted and you respond you don't understand it. If you don't stop building and start studying, there is no way you will succeed building an insanely™ awesome © alternator. It will probably work to some extent, but not very well.

Challenge accepted. If I provide real world results that blow your socks off then will you donate you knowledge to mankind?

That sounds like a fair deal to me.

For now I, probably naivly, still think I am on to something BIG

 

[brandnewb]

Challenge accepted. If I provide real world results that blow your socks off then will you donate you knowledge to mankind?

That sounds like a fair deal to me.

For now I, probably naivly, still think I am on to something BIG

@wholybee , once again maximum respect. But from my side of the pond this is called a buzzkill ;( hahha
how about you tell me what is an output that would blow your socks off and then i'll try to get there.

Please try and remain human about this and not tell me that it needs to output 50terrawats at 0.1rmp

If you are reasonable then so will I.. Lets see how far this show gets us.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Come on gals and boys. Without community backup this project will lead to certain disaster

Multiple attempts have been made to educate you. The path to disaster is guaranteed by your dismissal of advice and refusal to attempt to understand the basics.

You've asked for brilliant minds, but they get ignored. You should revise the subject to "dreamers" or "magical thinkers"

For now I, delusionally, still think I am on to something BIG

Fixed.

 

[brandnewb]

this is getting a bit werid indeed.
Just tell me what this damned alternator can do in theory and I'll match it or improve upon it. Otherwise this is just blowing wind.

no respect
.

 

[brandnewb]

@sunshine_EGO

please tell the late Albert Einstein to stop dreaming

I am so pissed off by the way this happy thread turned dark just now.
Why people why?

 

[brandnewb]

@sunshine_eggo still not wanting to end up in a fight I do sincerely ask you to bring on the challenge. What is a reasonable output at 60 rpm that you think I can't meet?

 

[brandnewb]

yes bring it on people. lets get this show a bit heated

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@sunshine_EGO

please tell the late Albert Einstein to stop dreaming

So you're an Albert Einstein? Einstein developed an understanding of all the basic principles upon which he built. He collaborated with and expanded on the work of his contemporaries.

You're no Al.

I am so pissed off by the way this happy thread turned dark just now.
Why people why?

Because I've encountered dozens and dozens of people convinced they have the best idea in the world, and due to at least a fundamental lack of understanding of ONE aspect, their idea can be demonstrated to be completely wrong.

At that point, the conversation becomes... I'm just being negative, and if I just think positive, it's going to be awesome and change the world.

*sigh*

 

[brandnewb]

So you're an Albert Einstein? Einstein developed an understanding of all the basic principles upon which he built. He collaborated with and expanded on the work of his contemporaries.

You're no Al.



Because I've encountered dozens and dozens of people convinced they have the best idea in the world, and due to at least a fundamental lack of understanding of ONE aspect, their idea can be demonstrated to be completely wrong.

At that point, the conversation becomes... I'm just being negative, and if I just think positive, it's going to be awesome and change the world.

*sigh*

nooooooo, Why did you not see this from the get go? I am not actually really believing I am on to the next think in physics.

Nooo brother I am merely making a show to attract minds. maybe even some of them brilliant. I am certainly not one of them.

Given this light can you please reduce your amount of attack? I mean we should learn to live peaceful with eachoter. Else risk more of the current politics we see around us day by day

 

[brandnewb]

just to add, if one is not happy in this thread and or not interested in the results then please leave. I am here to learn and entertain. I'd like to keep this show Heckler free if one grants me that

 

[brandnewb]

for future reference. I'll give a translation to my earlier words in where I said I do not understand.
What I really meant to say was; PLEASE!! just give me the TL:DR chances are that thread leads no where. lets keep it real and concrete