Building the sickest ® VAWT ever. Brilliant minds unite please!!

[brandnewb]

also I am going to need a more fine tuned scale as I have already met the limits of it. when it only reads ERROR (meaning too much force)

 

[Hedges]

View attachment 75014
at +-25mm distance the opposing force was +- 241g(gram)
at +-15mm distance the opposing force was > 550g

I'll admit that this test was mostly manual and thus giving my trademark earthshaker hands not reliable at all.

Any closer and I would repell the whole setup over,.

OK, one gap the thickness of your stator can apply a force in the range of 0.25 kgf to 0.5 kgf.
I think you metric guys have to convert kilograms force to newtons. We who overthrew the crown use "pounds" for both weight and force.

With 96 coils (round off to 100), that suggests up to 250 kgf to 500 kgf might be achievable. I'm surprised, didn't expect that much force at such a large distance. This is a force your discs will experience, either attractive or repulsive.

How they actually interact with a coil will depend on how much current x number of turns. With a gap between magnets and measuring force sliding a coil of current-carrying wire through, you will get that figure. That represents a motor. More representative of an alternator would be forcing a shorted coil through, but that is more difficult because it is a dynamic not static measurement, and would need to measure a momentary mechanical impulse.

That's why I suggest building a segment of a motor, with magnets swinging on an arm past one coil of the armature, and measuring stall torque vs. current.

If you have an oscilloscope, then you could build a motor with rotating armature carrying 2 or 4 magnets, one stator coil, and measure pulses of current/voltage. Without any more equipment than a volt meter, use a diode and capacitor to rectify and store power generated. Voltage will step up with each rotation. Add a resistive load and it will stabilize at some steady state voltage (sawtooth waveform) according to the power delivered. Multiply by 96 for what a 96 coil armature could do.

 

[brandnewb]

We who overthrew the crown use "pounds" for both weight and force.

yes and you lot are still enjoying the results hahahha pulling a leg once again

 

[brandnewb]

That's why I suggest building a segment of a motor, with magnets swinging on an arm past one coil of the armature, and measuring stall torque vs. current.

yes sir, i'll build a segment of an alternator.

I am not sure my wife will agree with the swinging aspect

 

[brandnewb]

If you have an oscilloscope

not yet, but I have read about some some open source ones using ardiuno or comparable. I like open source

 

[brandnewb]

sweet, I finally think I found a coil shape that will allow for 3 coils per magnet pair without running into collisions while winding and installing the coils.

Only downside is that I can't really first test 1 wire per coil and then keep adding wires. I am afraid i have to wind each coil to it's maximum from the get go.

 

[brandnewb]

Nah, the above solution will lead to a tremendous amount of soldering. Back to the drawing board

 

[stienman]

Recognizing that a) I'm a "Well, actually..." type killjoy and b) you appear to learn more by doing than by reading, I only have this to contribute:

Awesome! I'm enjoying watching your progress, keep it up!

Also, I have 10 kids, and am still tinkering, so you've no excuse. Also, 2 kids is easier than 1 - they bother each other more and me less, and your chances of a halfway decent retirement improve by 100% if you double your offspring (hey, let me live the lie, ok?).

Lastly, magnets don't care about what you want, and 1mm wire is going to lead to unhappiness in winding and power output. Put the same amount of copper on the coil, but make it many more loops of much thinner wire. But mostly magnets are jerks and will never meet your expectations, so be careful you don't get too attracted to them or things will go south quickly.

P.S. 96 magnets is ok for the size of your design. Your 0.82m rotor is a behemoth!

P.P.S. Don't worry about attaining CNC precision. Until you can get the coils to within 0.2mm of the magnets without collision at full speed and full power, you can be off by several mm in most other dimensions and it won't appreciably affect your power output. Hand tools, while f r u s t r a t i n g l y s l o w , are more than adequate, particularly since your design is so HUGE™.

***CAUTION***
If you don't have a sauna on your property, what are you doing with your life? Work on the sauna FIRST, then get back to the wind turbine. Prioritize!

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The above is provided without warranty, and any use or misuse of the above is fully the liability of the reader. This post was tested on animals, and those that survived asked for seconds. Please be kind and recycle all unused bits and bytes. Not for internal use. If swallowed, induce vomiting. Keep away from sensitive areas and people. If any gets on your skin, induce vomiting. Actually, just induce vomiting no matter what - it fixes almost everything. Remember - it's open source, not open sores.

 

[Hedges]

Realize that whatever force you apply to magnets by rotating the armature & their interacting with windings, will also be experienced as mechanical force on the wire of the windings. At small amount of power the stiffness of wire will hold it in place, but at higher power they will need something like varnish bonding them into place.

 

[brandnewb]

yes ok, i'll focus then on a pvc disk to wind the coils on and after some tests imortalize them in resin of sorts.
btw I got 960+ grams of repelling force today on my test rig at +10mm distance

 

[brandnewb]

regarding the enamled copper in a coil. And ignoring the skin effect in large diameter single core coils. Does it only matter how much of copper there is in a coil? or is it the total length of the wire in a coil i.e. smaller wires multi turns?

Because I could measure the exact length a full 360 coil phase path and cut the wires to length. Then combine them in a twisted manner like a litz wire. it would shorten the war by 5 years and safe millions of lives if that would make sense to do.

currently I have prepared a single loop +- 71m 1mm, pre twisted into 16 strands. It's hard to do and the result is sloppy

Also, one should assume there will be coils where one magnet is covering strands that run in opposite directions. Is that a problem if the coil wires need to be a closed loop?

 

[brandnewb]

@boondox and @chrisski

My thread over at the other forum got removed. I tried reaching out to admin JW that mentioned a few things just prior to it happening that makes me assume it's him that actually did it. But as any good host with hospitality in mind I heard nothing yet.

And to be honest it's like @stienman craft fully worded. In my own words that reflect his keen analysis, I am more of a head first hands on guy rather than a book worm so I am more comfortable at a community where it's okay to make mistakes and learn in the process.

 

[brandnewb]

So I am now salvaging the twisted copper wire I showed 2 posts earlier. It's crap and after having read more on the subject (hahhha I am all over the place with consistency in relation to my post #232) that will lead no where. literally no where.

So not I am unwinding it and making a 10 (1mm) strand 6.7m twisted strand out of it. and if that is still easy to wind around a template I am now designing I can finally get started on a quarter disk test with a single phase.

I am trying a poll inline this time.

Who can guess the best, the voltage at 60rpm while no load will be glorified and having free housing during shorts stays in my area. (the catch will be though that I'll be picking your mind like a madman and that might be getting irritating really fast)
Runners up can enjoy a listing in the hall of fame, which I am considering asking, and should he agree, @Will Prowse to create. That lists a community driven overview of incredible things that this comuntiy has done.

If this sickest ® VAWT ever will actualy see the day of light, I hope to be listed on that hall of fame.
edit: light of day?

 

[brandnewb]

Let me be more realistic and as to not come across as a fraud. I'll offer 1 week free housing for 2 times with minimum of a year apart as long as I have housing to offer.

Yeah Yeah I know this is worthless in terms of certainty but it's the best I can come up with at the moment.

 

[brandnewb]

argg. here comes the fine print I had not considered I meant for you and 1 spouse. I'd like to avoid having to see what damage can be done to my property by 9 wives if one happens to be a polygamist. Or in case @stienman wins than having 10 children wrecking one of my apartments is going to be bad idea.

 

[brandnewb]

P.S. 96 magnets is ok for the size of your design. Your 0.82m rotor is a behemoth!

Behemoth (C)

If you don't have a sauna on your property, what are you doing with your life? Work on the sauna FIRST, then get back to the wind turbine. Prioritize!

I do have an indoor pool I built myself. minimum temp is 37 degrees C. Maybe that will help motivate to join the contest.

 

[Hedges]

regarding the enamled copper in a coil. And ignoring the skin effect in large diameter single core coils. Does it only matter how much of copper there is in a coil? or is it the total length of the wire in a coil i.e. smaller wires multi turns?

Because I could measure the exact length a full 360 coil phase path and cut the wires to length. Then combine them in a twisted manner like a litz wire. it would shorten the war by 5 years and safe millions of lives if that would make sense to do.

currently I have prepared a single loop +- 71m 1mm, pre twisted into 16 strands. It's hard to do and the result is sloppy

Also, one should assume there will be coils where one magnet is covering strands that run in opposite directions. Is that a problem if the coil wires need to be a closed loop?

Each turn of wire in series will add to voltage, like batteries in series.
Current through wire experiences voltage drop V = I x R, and power loss W = I^2 x R, so thicker wire with reduced resistance reduces loss.

Same amount of copper could handle same watts, but thin long wire in series for high voltage low current, thick short wire (or many thin wires in parallel) for low voltage high current. Read up on transformers. An alternator is like a transformer, except it uses a moving magnet instead of primary winding to make alternating magnetic field.

You need a long length of enamel insulated wire, which you then wind into a coil around each pole and move on to the next pole. Or, wind around one pole, then next pole, then next ...
Either way, each of the three phases are separate, and each is effectively one long wire wrapped many times around many poles. You could splice lengths together, like if each pole could be wound individually on a bobbin (spun with a drill or something while you feed wire into it), then joined in series.

I don't think Litz will help with anything. I don't think skin effect will come into play. At 60 Hz, skin depth is 8.5 mm, an your wires are so much smaller it doesn't matter.

 

[brandnewb]

I don't think Litz will help with anything. I don't think skin effect will come into play. At 60 Hz, skin depth is 8.5 mm, an your wires are so much smaller it doesn't matter.

8.5mm you fathom? Say no more, I'll get me a mile of that diameter
EDIT: 1 mile in some obscure system is 1.609344 KM in a more sensible one
EDIT 2: please gang, you do allow me to shake the tree a little do you?

But nah that is the entertainer in me again.

So what I have gathered thus far is that I really should be winding either;
1) one coil to max winds and then connect (solder, NOOOOOOO) to the adjacent and that 96 x 3 x 2(I have planned a second disk of coils) times? NOOOOOOOOOOOO
2) one full 360 degree 96 coils wind, and while I am at it complete it to maximum.

I am open to suggestions

 

[brandnewb]

regarding the enamled copper in a coil. And ignoring the skin effect in large diameter single core coils. Does it only matter how much of copper there is in a coil? or is it the total length of the wire in a coil i.e. smaller wires multi turns?

Because I could measure the exact length a full 360 coil phase path and cut the wires to length. Then combine them in a twisted manner like a litz wire. it would shorten the war by 5 years and safe millions of lives if that would make sense to do.

currently I have prepared a single loop +- 71m 1mm, pre twisted into 16 strands. It's hard to do and the result is sloppy
View attachment 75231
Also, one should assume there will be coils where one magnet is covering strands that run in opposite directions. Is that a problem if the coil wires need to be a closed loop?

lol, not assume, it's a given as each adjacent wire is contra

 

[brandnewb]

2) one full 360 degree 96 coils wind, and while I am at it complete it to maximum.

I meant after winding a single phase for 360 degree with a single strand then not stop there. just go as go on until I almost meet the next planed phase coil space.