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Bus Bar Temperatures

ChrisV

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Joined
Apr 12, 2022
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Hi all, I have a general question about how hot bus bars should typically get. I have built a 16S pack from the EVE 105ah cells. As you know, these have rather small terminals and they came with screws and bus bars. When I put about 20-30amp load on it, some of the terminals get very hot to the touch. I suppose it's more the screw that is getting hot, rather than the bus bar.

I've taken a few terminals and reseated the connectors (BMS) and it helped somewhat. I think I may be too scared to tighten these down too far, as I've heard horror stories about stripping these out.

Any advice? I suppose I need a proper torque measuring tool...
 
Hi all, I have a general question about how hot bus bars should typically get. I have built a 16S pack from the EVE 105ah cells. As you know, these have rather small terminals and they came with screws and bus bars. When I put about 20-30amp load on it, some of the terminals get very hot to the touch. I suppose it's more the screw that is getting hot, rather than the bus bar.

I've taken a few terminals and reseated the connectors (BMS) and it helped somewhat. I think I may be too scared to tighten these down too far, as I've heard horror stories about stripping these out.

Any advice? I suppose I need a proper torque measuring tool...

Loose connections. Tighten them with a torque wrench to the cell specified torque. The larger 280Ah cells are typically 8Nm max torque on their M6 threads.
 
Bad connections. Heat is lost energy. Fire danger.
 
Thanks. I have ordered a torque wrench so that I can get the recommended level of torque. I've done some research on the forum and it seems that most agree that for my specific cell the max is 8nm, but should only be tightened to 5nm to prevent stripping. I'll give it a shot when the tool arrives tomorrow.
 
I confirm, I torqued them at 4-4.5 N.m as 8 N.m is the maximum torque the terminal can withstand, not what the threads can.
 
Nickel plated bus bars of typical size of 2 mm thick, 20 mm wide have about 0.07 milliohms of resistance.

A proper battery terminal to bus bar clamping connection has about 0.05 milliohm.

Total is 0.05 + 0.07 + 0.05 = 0.17 milliohm for battery terminal to battery terminal connection resistance.

At 100 amps of current that is 100A^2 * 0.17 milliohms = 1.7 watts of heating. This is barely warm to touch with 25 degs ambient air temp.

Problem is many folks make poor battery terminal connections and the terminal connection resistance can be greater than 0.2 milliohms.

With 0.2 milliohm terminal connections there is 0.2 + 0.07 + 0.2 = 0.47 milliohms.
At 100 amps that is 100A^2 * 0.47 milliohms = 4.7 watts of heating. This will have a hot temperature.

Aluminum grows a protective surface coating of aluminum oxide which is an insulator. You must clean this off before attaching bus bars.
50%-50% mix of white vinegar and water, followed by isoprophyl alcohol cleaning will clean off aluminum oxide. Keep vinegar away from threads and keep fingers off of cleaned terminals. Aluminum oxide grows back quickly so as soon as terminal dries off attach and clamp down bus bar.

Use nickel plated copper core bus bars. The nickel plating provides an inter-metalic barrier between aluminum and copper. Beware of getting brass core bus bars which have 4x the resistance of copper core bus bars. You can file off the end of bus bar plating to check. Brass is brighter yellowish color compared to copper's brownish color.

Do not use bare unplated copper for bus bars or cable terminal lugs. It interacts with aluminum over time, eating away aluminum surface. NoOxy grease will help prevent interaction, but better not to use bare copper.

The below picture of aluminum cell terminal had bare unplated copper bus bars. The scratching in picture was an attempt to file out the surface pits in aluminum terminal.
Result of unplated copper bus bars.jpg
 
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I don't think small contact area is actually the problem it would seem to be. Curved relay contacts have even smaller contact patch.
Small cross section busbars probably isn't much of a problem either. Those are uninsulated (or barely insulated) conductors in free air. Much less than 24" long, so what heat they do generate conducts into cells.

If they get hot, it is poor contact. Unclean surface or insufficient force.
How much current and what temperature rise? Power dissipation will go as the square of the current, and temperature rise will approximately follow that (fluid dynamics is too complex to do in my head.) You can project temperature at maximum current.

"some of the terminals get very hot to the touch"
Differences in temperature rise are proportional to differences in resistance. Similar things should behave similarly.

Turning screws under pressure in soft aluminum terminals will tend to damage threads.
If thread is less than 100% engaged, less strength. If it bottoms, no clamping force.
People put studs ("grub screws") in the terminals, loctite or otherwise bond in place, then use a nut to clamp terminals.
 
Hi all, I have a general question about how hot bus bars should typically get. I have built a 16S pack from the EVE 105ah cells. As you know, these have rather small terminals and they came with screws and bus bars. When I put about 20-30amp load on it, some of the terminals get very hot to the touch. I suppose it's more the screw that is getting hot, rather than the bus bar.

I've taken a few terminals and reseated the connectors (BMS) and it helped somewhat. I think I may be too scared to tighten these down too far, as I've heard horror stories about stripping these out.

Any advice? I suppose I need a proper torque measuring tool...

Seriously, those should barely be above ambient temperature (maybe at most 2 degrees C). Be sure to CLEAN the terminal and busbar, then tighten appropriately.

Heat is a sign of a poor connection.
 
I suppose it's more the screw that is getting hot, rather than the bus bar.

Reading again, this stands out. Make sure the busbar is the first thing placed on the terminal, do not place anything like BMS leads first. This sounds like something is blocking the terminal to busbar connection.
 
There is a link in my signature about battery melt down.
Your torque wrench will be your new best friend if you read the page.
 
There is a link in my signature about battery melt down.
Your torque wrench will be your new best friend if you read the page.
Personally, I have a torque wrench and my thermal camera is much more useful. It may be a cheap Chinese one, but it makes those problem connections pop right out.

I will also admit that even using grubscrews with locktite, I was apparently getting really close to the correct torque before I bought a torque wrench, but I have a lot of prior experience with making good electrical connections.
 
Personally, I have a torque wrench and my thermal camera is much more useful. It may be a cheap Chinese one, but it makes those problem connections pop right out.

I will also admit that even using grubscrews with locktite, I was apparently getting really close to the correct torque before I bought a torque wrench, but I have a lot of prior experience with making good electrical connections.
I use a "raygun" thermometer, and YEP it's really cool for figuring out what's too hot. (y)
 
Just be careful of shiny surfaces reflecting heat signatures more than telling you what the actual temp is.
I've seen that on YouTube but never experienced it personally. I'm not sure if it is because mine is much higher resolution, or because it is cheap Chinese.
 
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