Buy Cells in Canada and the Risk of Cheap Cells?

[bedpan]

Hey Folks.. Just starting to learn. I was trained as a Electronic Tech some years back so no completely stupid. I DIY much of everything and love to learn. A few questions..

For us Canadian Folks ordering from Aliexpress. What can I expect Duty/Brokerage/Tax wise? I am looking at assorted 3.2V and pondering a few different capacities for a few different build ideas. I see some cheap 320AH cells for around $50 each. Free shipping With either DHL(2 weeks), EMS (3 weeks) or Sellers Shipping Method (11 weeks). What can I expect to pay at my door for the deliver for each? For reference sake I am Southern Ontario East of the GTA.

The extension of this. Whats my risk in ordering these dirt cheap cells? Bloated, under capacity? At that price even 20% under capacity I am not to worried about. Is bloating a serious issue other then cosmetic? Sure the cells might now work but I doubt I will have any issue getting my money back. Is there a fire risk with these cells?

Looking forward to you input and much thanks!

Mike

 

[RCinFLA]

Aliexpress has gotten totally out of control wild west. If it sounds too good to be true it likely is.

Follow this link. 'brand new 280 AH cells' $420 for 16 with free shipping to U.S.

124.8US $ 40% OFF|8PCS 3.2v280ah Lifepo4 brand rechargeable brand new battery of iron lithium, appropriate for RV EV tax exempti in the|Battery Packs| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

 

[RobertGreen]

You have to contact the seller and ask for a quote. Neither the product prices nor the shipping prices will be correctly displayed on the listings.
As for taxes and duties, a lot of the time people ask for their quotes and shipments "DDP" or delivered, duties paid. This means that the seller takes care of the taxes and duties and so forth to get them to you.

 

[Steve_S]

Amy from Luyuan has been delivering cells to many Canadians and no problem. IF you are rural & remote you may end up with a courier surcharge. Strange things are happening at AliExpress lately, it's very odd. Luyuan Operates from AliBaba. Here is a link to Luyuan. https://szluyuan.en.alibaba.com/?

Reality is, you do get what you pay for and it is best to stick to a Known Good Reputable vendors.

 

[bedpan]

Aliexpress has gotten totally out of control wild west. If it sounds too good to be true it likely is.

Follow this link. 'brand new 280 AH cells' $420 for 16 with free shipping to U.S.

124.8US $ 40% OFF|8PCS 3.2v280ah Lifepo4 brand rechargeable brand new battery of iron lithium, appropriate for RV EV tax exempti in the|Battery Packs| - AliExpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

The ones I was looking at are very similar. What can I expect if I order these? A scam, nothing will ship? or I will get degraded, low capacity bloated Cells? Beyond fire risk I don't mind playing with degraded low quality cells. These are for learning on anyways. When and if I build something that is production I will be sure to order something of higher quality. For now I just want to get some panels running with some batteries and BMS...

 

[Rich585]

The free shipping and DHL is for the final leg once the cells reach Canada. They will spend 3 months on a ship first.

I placed an order in April with group buy and still waiting for cells to arrive but I do expect them at some point.

I placed a second order on Ali express, paid $450 + $85 for shipping and at 108 days I was able to get my money back.

So it is September and 5 months in this journey, still no cells.

don’t expect to see them fast unless you pay for air shipping which will cost same price or more than cells cost.

mother option is find vendor in Canada but pay 2-3 times the cost.

 

[bedpan]

You have to contact the seller and ask for a quote. Neither the product prices nor the shipping prices will be correctly displayed on the listings.
As for taxes and duties, a lot of the time people ask for their quotes and shipments "DDP" or delivered, duties paid. This means that the seller takes care of the taxes and duties and so forth to get them to you.

For Alibaba I understand quotes are provided by the seller...What about on Aliexpress though. What can I expect on battery orders from Aliexpress via DHL, EMS or "Sellers shipping method"?

I did not know about asking on Alibaba for DDP though. That will be handy!

Thanks!

 

[bedpan]

The free shipping and DHL is for the final leg once the cells reach Canada. They will spend 3 months on a ship first.

I placed an order in April with group buy and still waiting for cells to arrive but I do expect them at some point.

I placed a second order on Ali express, paid $450 + $85 for shipping and at 108 days I was able to get my money back.

So it is September and 5 months in this journey, still no cells.

don’t expect to see them fast unless you pay for air shipping which will cost same price or more than cells cost.

mother option is find vendor in Canada but pay 2-3 times the cost.

Thanks Rich.. I figured they would be slow.. On ones you have received have you had to pay Duty/Customs/Tax?

 

[Rich585]

5 months and still waiting for cells. I bought them with DDP Alibaba vendor through group buy so I don’t expect to pay anything more, just keep waiting for them to arrive. Use them for camper but 2021 season over so I hope to have them for 2022 camping season.

 

[RobertGreen]

5 months and still waiting for cells. I bought them with DDP Alibaba vendor through group buy so I don’t expect to pay anything more, just keep waiting for them to arrive. Use them for camper but 2021 season over so I hope to have them for 2022 camping season.

If you bought them through the Michael Caro group buy, then you should check out those threads to catch up on the rather unfortunate goings on.

 

[ereams65]

No such thing as 320Ah cells for $50.00 a piece.

 

[Rich585]

If you bought them through the Michael Caro group buy, then you should check out those threads to catch up on the rather unfortunate goings on.

Thanks
Yes I have been following the 2 separate threads and crossing my fingers and toes that my order was shipped by the second new supplier (not the one with the issues) but waiting to find out. It appears any undelivered orders are being recalled so I just have to wait and see what happens and if I do get a delivery to see what condition they are in.

my point to original poster is that don’t expect to see an order within a month. Patience is required and if you are not comfortable with that then this game is not for you.

Reading posts Michael will make things right on orders but on Aliexpress you are gambling and could get screwed if you receive junk cells and good luck getting your money back. I may have gotten lucky to have my package lost or I could have gotten lucky. I will never know as package never made it to Canada after 4 months of shipping.

 

[Steve_S]

I've built several packs and brought in a lot of cells. All delivered to my door up near Algonquin Park (rural & remote ok) no duties taxes or extras, all inclusive. Shipping times were not bad, then covid and now suck ! Last Winter I did get an extra delivery charge with one courier but that was one of those Catch-22 situations as the truck had to go way out of their usual zone (120km ea way, out). I've just had my final bundle of cells arrive Air-Freight (OUCH) and thank goodness 8x105 fit in one box with the other materials. (exceptional rare situation due to timing).

I deal with Amy Wan of Luyuan and that's obvious. there is a long thread and she is a know good reputable vendor.
To get a proper quote, contact her via the chat/messenger on alibaba and give her your postal code. Figure it out from there.

Good Luck

 

[bedpan]

No such thing as 320Ah cells for $50.00 a piece.

So what will I get if I order them? Nothing? Shit cells? I understand to good to be true. Just wondering what true is...

I am cheap... And just tinkering. So even shit cells for now I am ok with. Just wondering what the deal is with these super cheap cellls.

 

[ereams65]

So what will I get if I order them? Nothing? Shit cells? I understand to good to be true. Just wondering what true is...

I am cheap... And just tinkering. So even shit cells for now I am ok with. Just wondering what the deal is with these super cheap cellls.

Odds are high you won’t get anything. LifePo4 isn’t “cheap”….You can’t even get 100Ah cells shipped from China for $50. If you really want to be cheap, find used cells from like a BHU to ‘practice’ on.

 

[perpetual]

@bedpan
what about getting some of these 40V BAE systems modules ?
Pretty cheap in the classifieds
You can break em down to 12V packs if you want

 

[Alkaline]

All I will say you get what you get and you will have to live with it.

Buying cells on Alibaba/express is like buying crypto currency, its all over the place, some people win, many loose.

 

[Alkaline]

There is a reason why manufactured batteries are so much because they don't have the luxury of slipping in cells out of wrecks and other shenanigans to get their prices to be so low.

 

[Just John]

The extension of this. Whats my risk in ordering these dirt cheap cells? Bloated, under capacity? At that price even 20% under capacity I am not to worried about. Is bloating a serious issue other then cosmetic? Sure the cells might now work but I doubt I will have any issue getting my money back. Is there a fire risk with these cells?

I know many disagree, but I think that used or bloated cells have a substantially higher risk of dendrite formation. That would cause internal shorts, and just isn't a risk I'm willing to take. Bloated cells come from over charging or under discharging the cells, and certainly will increase the probability of delamination of the "jelly roll" in the cells. The bloating is caused by the electrolyte in the cell boiling (it's a hydrocarbon and will boil at a lower temperature than water). Everyone has their own risk tolerance.

 

[bedpan]

I know many disagree, but I think that used or bloated cells have a substantially higher risk of dendrite formation. That would cause internal shorts, and just isn't a risk I'm willing to take. Bloated cells come from over charging or under discharging the cells, and certainly will increase the probability of delamination of the "jelly roll" in the cells. The bloating is caused by the electrolyte in the cell boiling (it's a hydrocarbon and will boil at a lower temperature than water). Everyone has their own risk tolerance.

Thanks kindly for taking the time to Reply. This is the type of info I am looking for. Since posting this I have done some searching on the topic. It ranges from Bloated cells mean nothing but loss of capacity to you are likely sitting on a small nuclear weapon and you best evacuate. I am still not sure where it lies. Will continues to use his bloat cells in his latest battery builds. Not saying that makes it right.

I am curious if anyone has ordered these super cheap cells from aliexpress and what they got?