Cabin System Help

[Hoclax8]

I have a remote 16x20' cabin and I'd like to install a solar system. I only spend time there on some nights and weekends but I'd like lights, refrigerator, ceiling fan, water pump, TV, stereo, and potentially a microwave and a small a/c unit.

I am planning on all 12v lighting and ceiling fan and running 120v outlets for the other items I listed.

What I have already acquired (for free):
(7) panels- (2) 130w, (2) 135w (2) 110w (1) 150w
(2) Morningstar SunSaver-10 (SS-10-12V)
(6) OGRE 110 AH batteries (OE12110)
(1) AIMS 3000w Pure Sine inverter (I did purchase this)

What I'm struggling to understand...
-If I can/should utilize the different wattage panels together?
-How many panels should I utilize?
-Will the 10amp SunSaver work? (I'm thinking I'd like a controler with some read out capabilities)

I'm 100% open to suggestions on how I can get this all set up....I'm very new to the solar world.

Thanks- Jon

 

[snoobler]

I have a remote 16x20' cabin and I'd like to install a solar system. I only spend time there on some nights and weekends but I'd like lights, refrigerator, ceiling fan, water pump, TV, stereo, and potentially a microwave and a small a/c unit.

I am planning on all 12v lighting and ceiling fan and running 120v outlets for the other items I listed.

What I have already acquired (for free):
(7) panels- (2) 130w, (2) 135w (2) 110w (1) 150w
(2) Morningstar SunSaver-10 (SS-10-12V)
(6) OGRE 110 AH batteries (OE12110)
(1) AIMS 3000w Pure Sine inverter (I did purchase this)

What I'm struggling to understand...
(1)-If I can/should utilize the different wattage panels together?
(2)-How many panels should I utilize?
(3)-Will the 10amp SunSaver work? (I'm thinking I'd like a controler with some read out capabilities)

I'm 100% open to suggestions on how I can get this all set up....I'm very new to the solar world.

Thanks- Jon

(1) Yes, but you have to be careful. Please post full specs of each (from sticker on back). Need Voc, Vmp, Isc, Imp.
(2) Unknown because of (1)
(3) No. Shitcan it. Each can only charge enough to provide a maximum of about 140W of solar power. You will need to replace it. You have nearly 900W of solar panels.

You really need to start with links #1 and #5 in my signature. In link 1, take the items you listed, their power requirements and the desired run time. This will tell you your total energy needs. The fridge might have a yellow energy sticker on it with the annual kWh rating (or in the manual or online specs), and the microwave will use rated watts * 1.6.

Link #5 will tell you the solar availability in your area.

By knowing what you need and what's available, you can size your system or at least establish realistic expectations. This isn't the quick answer you seek, but it will go miles to educating you and developing comfort with the process.

The pump is an important consideration. Pumps have very high surge currents well beyond their run current. The good news is that most AIMS inverters have a pretty robust surge capability. Please provide any electrical data you can find on the pump.

Due to some pretty high power items, this will pull BIG currents from your batteries. You might also consider exchanging the inverter for a 24V model. More on that when we have more info.

 

[Hoclax8]

Pics attached with full panel specs along with a screen shot of the completed energy audit (for some reason I could not attached the excel file).

Like I mentioned, we do not spend long periods of time at the cabin so I'd like to utilize the components I have already to get the most out of the system, except the charge controller...let me know what you suggest. The cabin is located in the woods behind my house so we rarely even spend the night. Mostly entertaining with friends around a campfire for a few hours. The refrigerator will be the most used as it will always be on....I can't wait to have a cold beer waiting when I get there (haha!). I excluded the microwave and a/c unit from audit calculation after seeing the large amount of energy consumption but if the system can harvest enough that they can be installed then that's a bonus.

The solar availability in my area ranges from 2-6 throughout the year....Rochester, NY is the closest.

As for the pump, I was thinking a 12v RV style. I will be building a rain catch system primarily to wash hands and possibly a toilet in the future.

I am thinking about utilizing 12v components (i.e. lights, pump, ceiling fans, etc.) where possible because I figured they would use less energy, again, open for suggestions.

The array mount that I have already constructed is sized for 6 panels.

The inverted I purchased is a AIMS 3000w/6000w surge (PWRI300012120SUL).

I appreciate your help!

 

[Hoclax8]

I just realized that first upload was trash.

 

[snoobler]

Those panels are all pretty close. Two series strings:

110+135+130
110+135+130

Both of those strings in parallel with each other. The 150W is the odd man out, and it should be omitted. That's almost 750W. The 135 and 130 will be limited to 7.27A while in series with the 110V panels, so they'll be compromised slightly.

Worth actually testing your panels to confirm those numbers, or at least confirm that they are all similar to each other:

110Ah * 6 *12 = 7.92kWh of battery. Note that with those batteries, you don't want to go below 50% capacity, so you can only use 1/2 of that, which gets you most of the way to your audit goal.

12V RV pump should be fine. Check your power. I don't think they use 240W of 12V power.

Fans are great until someone walks out and leaves them on. They require disclipline.

A large efficient residential fridge should only use about 2.0kWh/day. I've been looking at 10cu-ft units to replace my RV fridge that use less than 1kWh/day. Many have energy star yellow stickers on them showing annual cost and kWh usage. It will have a peak well above 150W.

Toaster? 70W? Probably more like 1000W.

Still having a hard time reading it. You can zip and post XLSX files.

What you have sounds like it gets you partly on your way.

 

[Hoclax8]

I adjusted the toaster and yes, the fridge start up is 1200w. The pump is ~10amps, so 120w, correct?

So you're suggested they are wired like below, correct?


So will I need to add a step down to keep the system at 12v? Will a 20amp charge controller work?

 

[Hoclax8]

Not exactly like the pic, but a combination of series and parallel....3 panels in series (x2) and then tie the 2 series together in parallel.

This will produce 36v and 15 amps, correct?

 

[snoobler]

14.54A and about 66Voc/52Vmp (in a series string, voltages add; in parallel, current adds)

 

[Hoclax8]

So a 20amp charge control should be adequate...I was thinking:

Or:

Thoughts?

I will still need to step down from 66Voc to 12v with a transformer/converter before the controller, correct? Or does the controller handle that?

 

[snoobler]

MPPT controllers have PV input limits. You merely need to comply with that. THey take care of the conversion to the battery voltage via MPPT. They're basically sophisticated DC-DC converters that find the PV's optimal voltage and current combination for maximum power input, then they output that power to the battery as it needs it.

Both SCC you have listed should be fine for handling the VOLTAGE of the panels. SCC current ratings are OUTPUT, i.e., it will only send 20A to the battery, thus 20A * 14.7V = 294W, which is only 1/3 of what you have available.

You will need a 60A charge controller. This is the lesson in pain associated with high power 12V systems. 12V needs a LOT of current. Those 6X 110Ah batteries at 660Ah need to be charged AROUND 33-66A, so that puts you in the sweet spot for a large portion of your day.

Looping back around to my first reply, if swapping the 12V for a 24V inverter and reconfiguring your batteries for 24V is an option, I'd go for it. Expanding this system is going to be a chore. Also consider, 3000W/12V = 250A of current from your batteries to your inverter. While you won't be running 3000W very often, a 1000W microwave uses about 1600W, 1600/12 = 133A. Your system can certainly handle it, but it's going to require massive battery cables connecting the batteries to each other and the batteries to the inverter.

You'll likely experience a small increase in cost now, but adding panels and expanding the system will be much more flexible in the future, especially considering your energy audit suggests 2kW of panels, and you're only 1/3 there. At 24V, the 60A charge controller will only need to output 30A, thus allowing you to double the size of your array with no additional changes.

 

[Hoclax8]

Good?

60 AMP Solar Charge Controller 12 / 24 / 36 / 48 VDC MPPT ETL Listed to UL 458 / CSA 22.2

This solar battery charge controller by AIMS Power features a smart tracking algorithm using MPPT charging technology and has less power loss performing at 97.5-99% efficiency, maximizing energy harvest. The tracking algorithm is automatic and varies with weather conditions. This charge...

www.aimscorp.net

I'm going to stick with where we're at...I see no need to ever expand (famous last words) and since we don't spend much time there the system shouldn't be too taxed considering it will have plenty of time to recover (also famous last words).

So, I'm good on panel wiring and the components, anything else I need besides wire?

Side thought, the wife is already asking that I utilize the one remaining panel at the chicken coop for a light...how would stealing 1 of the six batteries affect what we've been working on?

 

[snoobler]

That AIMS unit is pretty spendy. I'd go with one of the 50/60A units on Will's page:

DIY Off Grid Solar Charge Controllers

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

This "blueprint" on Will's site is a good guide to make sure you have all the bits and pieces you need:

Large RV Solar Power Blueprints

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

For the yard buzzards:
150V panel
$20 PWM 12V controller
Cheap battery from Walmart
12V 4W LED bulbs

 

[Hoclax8]

The (6) batteries are wired in parallel, correct?

Is there a layout diagram available showing how this all gets wired up?

 

[snoobler]

Yes.

There's a sketch on this page:

RV Solar Power Blue Prints

Building a vehicle mounted solar power system? Let me help.

www.mobile-solarpower.com

 

[Hoclax8]

Where should I mount all of this? Should the batteries be in the cabin or in an insulated box outside. I live in NY.

 

[snoobler]

I'm the wrong guy to ask. I sit less than 7 feet from 11kWh of FLA that I routinely shove 300A into in my home office. My safety standards rely heavily on low probabilities of unfavorable outcomes, not taking steps to decrease those probabilities

*I* would keep them in the cabin, especially since they're AGM. Officially, they should be in a vented container, blah, blah, blah.

IMHO, keep them from getting too warm and from getting too cold. Risk of venting is non-zero, but DAMN close. This is an afterthought, since I kinda take it for granted, but it's worth getting a charge controller that has a temperature probe for temperature compensation.

 

[Craig]

Where should I mount all of this? Should the batteries be in the cabin or in an insulated box outside. I live in NY.

I have all my stuff in a well vented exterior closet with cement board for walls. I think it is overkill but I want to be as safe as possible so I do not burn down the forest like the power company did.

 

[Hoclax8]

Progress!

Everything is running great.

 

[snoobler]

Glad to hear it. Unfortunately, I have to burst your bubble. Even if that's a 8x8 pole, it may not be adequate for peak winds in your area. A 30 mph wind perpendicular to your panels will put about an 800# load on your array. Even if the panel center is only 5' above ground, that would be a 4000ft-lb moment trying to snap your pole at the base.

You have a lot of trees, so hopefully, you get negligible wind. If you've ever had storms with high winds, I would encourage you to use a steel pipe.

Wood posts can be fine as panel mounts, just not single pole cantilevered-type.

 

[Deleted member 1888]

Progress!

Everything is running great.

Could you please give up a close up of the back of the array so we can see how its mounted? Can you also tell us the items you used to make that mount?