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Can I run a Generac for an hour every day?

my used 15 year old denyo 10kw welder genset has 1900 hours on it currently, it had 1600 when i bought it used. most of the ones that come up for sale on yahoo are sitting at the 6xxx hour mark and sell for about 2k. i have seen several at auction that had over 10,000 hours. something that costs that much and has the same rough life expectancy of a sears and roebuck air compressor is not worth considering for any emergency equipment.

these you will normally see on construction sites here in japan as a power source for a sector of the worksite with 5 or 6 scattered over a typical worksite. they run for 8-12 hours per day with stops only for refueling. on a really large site, or one in the northern areas where its cold, they will run 24-7 with the eco idle turned on during the off hours to prevent starting issues in the cold conditions.

the only thing i have done to mine in the 300 hours of operation besides normal oil changes and fuel filter changes is i had to replace the alternator and water pump after i had had it a year. the alternator locked up broke the belt and evidentially the water pump had started leaking around the same time. so i swapped it, the thermostat and the hoses at the same time.
 
oh and most that you find used will be three phase... shout out to Dexter at current connected for the idea, use two of the eg4 chargeverters one on two of the phase's at 240 and one on the third phase and neutral setup for 120. I used a clamp AC meter to measure the out put on each leg and adjust the chargeverters to get even pull on all three legs. you do not even need to wire it to your inverters so no worries bout dirty power and what not, no issues with it being three phase vice split phase etc.
 
The company at the link below will build a 12Kw propane generator on request. The link is to a 6 KW propane. If you possibly can, stay with water cooled engines for dependability/cooling capacity.

 
I reccomended the Northern Lights diesel for Canadian clients (mostly relatives).

You might find a dealer closer than this.
that's a taiyo gen head with a kubota engine (or something that looks so much like it I cannot tell the difference... (on the 9kw model) i would bet its good for 10,000 hours with zero issues other than basic maintenance.
 
I would not expect an hour or two running would wear it down that fast. But that's just a guess on my part. Just be sure to stick to the service intervals for oil changes every x hours of operation.
From my experience servicing the exercise cycles wearing out generators faster than actually using them
But if your running with a sustainable load for an hour a day that might be just fine. ( say 75% rated power for that duration )

I would consider an oil analysis....
Look for abnormal wear.
Watch the lash on the valves examine spark plug...
Compression tests ever few hundred hours...

Watch for changes that indicate the unit is wearing out.
Don't be afraid to take it apart at early signs of trouble and see whats going on.
While parts are available ( and generac and Cummins are bad for parts) I would repair things as soon as you see a problem starting
 
I reccomended the Northern Lights diesel for Canadian clients (mostly relatives).

You might find a dealer closer than this.
My shields go up when ever I run into dealings with a company who's actual name is a number...
419609 Alberta Ltd
Makes me think they are hiding something...
Anyone that sells you a listeroid and does not say straight up your buying a hobby engine to tinker with....

I just re read the regulations because i am out of date...

These engines are T3 or less...
So they can be imported and used if for a stationary application only.
The importer may have left himself open to some trouble...
They must each have documentation and a unique serial number...

Back in the day, I used to import engines and I used a loop hole.
I had the engines marked a mining M-242 engines and for use in Non gassy mines and mining plants for sale in Ontario.
That way I could simply say that once in Ontario it was the responsibility of the Purchaser to ensure the engines are correctly set up and tested and used to meet the regulations ( and some of these are joke regulation like the marine rules where you judge how clean the engine is by the colour of the smoke )

The rules still work that way.
These also don't meet T4 ( not even close )
That's how they are still able to import and sell them.
1737818617083.png
People who use an angle or a rule loop hole to sell something like this are making a pile of money ( thats 25,000 dollar F70 they retail for over 100,000 )

Or they are crooked....
There is not cheap and easy way to sell non compliant engines in Canada.
 
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We're getting off track here but I think my question has been answered. I suspected that the Generacs were only good for the occasional backup and several members have confirmed. Additionally - no one has posted up that they run theirs daily and it's been trouble free.

I don't want a diesel genset, I know it would be the best long term solution but it requires someone who understands engines, it requires a separate fuel source and at 61 I'm not going to get a return on investment. When you're 30 or 40 buying a genset that will last 10000 hours is a good investment but at my age it's wasted money. At 2 hours per day, 3 months per year for twenty years I need 3600hours before I die or move, if I buy two units that each last 1800 hours I'll get the most return on my investment. That could be Generac but I like the suggestion of the redundant Westinghouse wgen11500tfc. It's like the kid in the mall at Christmas that tried to sell me a ginzu knife that would last 50 years, I told him to take a good look at me - "do I look like I'm going to live another 50 years?" The look on his face as he realized the the people who could most easily afford his product don't need it was priceless

I want a single fuel source I can buy in bulk (1000 gallon propane tank) and I want a generator that is trouble free enough that if I die first my wife can continue to live on the property. Where we will be living there are not likely any diesel generator repair people so the a consumer replaceable tri-fuel Westinghouse may be the winner.
 
We're getting off track here but I think my question has been answered. I suspected that the Generacs were only good for the occasional backup and several members have confirmed. Additionally - no one has posted up that they run theirs daily and it's been trouble free.

I don't want a diesel genset, I know it would be the best long term solution but it requires someone who understands engines, it requires a separate fuel source and at 61 I'm not going to get a return on investment. When you're 30 or 40 buying a genset that will last 10000 hours is a good investment but at my age it's wasted money. At 2 hours per day, 3 months per year for twenty years I need 3600hours before I die or move, if I buy two units that each last 1800 hours I'll get the most return on my investment. That could be Generac but I like the suggestion of the redundant Westinghouse wgen11500tfc. It's like the kid in the mall at Christmas that tried to sell me a ginzu knife that would last 50 years, I told him to take a good look at me - "do I look like I'm going to live another 50 years?" The look on his face as he realized the the people who could most easily afford his product don't need it was priceless

I want a single fuel source I can buy in bulk (1000 gallon propane tank) and I want a generator that is trouble free enough that if I die first my wife can continue to live on the property. Where we will be living there are not likely any diesel generator repair people so the a consumer replaceable tri-fuel Westinghouse may be the winner.
sorry i could not be more helpful but any of the japanese offerings for a gasoline/propane would probably last longer than a generac. they jsut have two many issues. if you are looking at cheap and throwaway then champion comes to mind, they have 10000 watt units that are split phase 240 but are limited to (i think) 8000 watts on propane, you could still run one chargeverter and not worry about the wave form being dirty and stick with the fuel you want, propane. (i think they do natural gas as well) .
 
I selected a Kohler 14RCA generator back in 2020. Two main advantages, one, it is Prime rated so it is designed to operate 24/7 and was warantied for off-grid usage. Second, it is designed to facilitate end-user maintenance. Had great training on the first maintenance work from the technician. It runs flawlessly at -30C with a carburator heater (uses 35W on thermostat set at -15C). It is driven by an autostart AGS controller that follows battery bank SOC.
I almost selected the newly offering (in 2020) which is the Kohler 6VSG DC generator geared for off-grid 48VDC installations.
I would have trusted Generac also but the suppliers didn't had a model for off-grid at the time other than large Prime type generators.
 
We're getting off track here but I think my question has been answered. I suspected that the Generacs were only good for the occasional backup and several members have confirmed. Additionally - no one has posted up that they run theirs daily and it's been trouble free.

I don't want a diesel genset, I know it would be the best long term solution but it requires someone who understands engines, it requires a separate fuel source and at 61 I'm not going to get a return on investment. When you're 30 or 40 buying a genset that will last 10000 hours is a good investment but at my age it's wasted money. At 2 hours per day, 3 months per year for twenty years I need 3600hours before I die or move, if I buy two units that each last 1800 hours I'll get the most return on my investment. That could be Generac but I like the suggestion of the redundant Westinghouse wgen11500tfc. It's like the kid in the mall at Christmas that tried to sell me a ginzu knife that would last 50 years, I told him to take a good look at me - "do I look like I'm going to live another 50 years?" The look on his face as he realized the the people who could most easily afford his product don't need it was priceless

I want a single fuel source I can buy in bulk (1000 gallon propane tank) and I want a generator that is trouble free enough that if I die first my wife can continue to live on the property. Where we will be living there are not likely any diesel generator repair people so the a consumer replaceable tri-fuel Westinghouse may be the winner.
If you don't want a diesel genset, then at the very least get a liquid cooled generator with a running RPM of 1800 on propane. Generally for about the 25-30kW size, you will be getting a 4 cylinder plus minus turbo and it could have a Kohler, Generac, Mazda, GM etc. engine powering the genset. You may find these used with low hours or just get a new install.

Any generator that is "PRIMARY" use is meant to run continuously in places with no grid that need power. It will last and will be used for years as well as enhance your property value. A much better investment than a large battery bank IMO.
 
Thanks to everyone, all knowledge is valuable, I just didn't want this to turn into a "what's the best Generator" thread.

A liquid cooled primary generator would be cool and last long and be great but the price difference may not be the best return on my money. If I can get away with an air cooled cheaper unit and spend the extra money on a week in Prague or Vienna I'd rather have the vacation.
 
I'll try to automate it such that at dusk the genny kicks on if the batteries are below a set point and it will charge them up to a point where they can power the house all night. Even if I got zero sunlight a 25kW genny should charge my 20kWh of batteries in an hour or so.

What are you using to turn AC into DC?

Don't bother getting a generator that big if your inverter/charger can only charge batteries at say 100Amps DC... Your charger will determine run time = fuel burn.

Size the generator to your charger and expected inverter loads. Depending on the inverter, you will want to operate your charger at full load AND power the loads in the house so it's not kicking offline for overload.

I suspect you won't need anything larger than 12-15kw.
 
What are you using to turn AC into DC?

Don't bother getting a generator that big if your inverter/charger can only charge batteries at say 100Amps DC... Your charger will determine run time = fuel burn.

Size the generator to your charger and expected inverter loads. Depending on the inverter, you will want to operate your charger at full load AND power the loads in the house so it's not kicking offline for overload.

I suspect you won't need anything larger than 12-15kw.
A good comment. If you want to set up a large battery bank and charge them from a generator in a less than 1 day time frame, you will need multiple AC to DC chargers.

But I though you were thinking along the line of a small battery bank and a larger generator. In that case, the charger on the inverter itself could be sufficient. For example, an outback Radian has a built in 7,200 watt AC to DC charger.
 
Good Point. The system I've been quoted on includes a 12k Lux Hybrid Inverter. Spec sheet says

Battery
Compatible battery type - Lithium-ion/Lead-Acid
Rated battery voltage(V) - 48
Battery voltage range(V) - 40~60
Max. charge/discharge current(A) - 250
Max. charge/discharge power(W) - 12000
Force wake up battery from PV function(Y/N) - YES

So The Westinghouse on propane at 10.5kW may be a perfect fit, it'll run balls to the wall for one to two hours per day in Dec and sit idle the rest of the year.

At $1699USD I'll buy two and have a redundant backup for far less than a water cooled or diesel primary.
 
Good Point. The system I've been quoted on includes a 12k Lux Hybrid Inverter. Spec sheet says

Max. charge/discharge current(A) - 250
Max. charge/discharge power(W) - 12000

So The Westinghouse on propane at 10.5kW may be a perfect fit, it'll run balls to the wall for one to two hours per day in Dec and sit idle the rest of the year.
If using a 10.5kw generator, you will have to turn the charge rate down on inverter when charging from a generator. 250A/12000W is more than you will get from a 10500w generator. Thats not accounting for any loads in the house at the same time.

Also, those inverters are picky when it comes to generator power, thats the whole reason EG4 came out with the chargeverter. Pushing a cheap generator to its limits will likely result in the inverter disconnecting from the gen, if you can get it to connect in the first place...
 
We're getting off track here but I think my question has been answered. I suspected that the Generacs were only good for the occasional backup and several members have confirmed. Additionally - no one has posted up that they run theirs daily and it's been trouble free.

I don't want a diesel genset...

I want a single fuel source I can buy in bulk (1000 gallon propane tank) and I want a generator that is trouble free enough that if I die first my wife can continue to live on the property. Where we will be living there are not likely any diesel generator repair people so the a consumer replaceable tri-fuel Westinghouse may be the winner.

What are the low temps that the generator will operate in? Below 0F - 10F a propane generator can get grumpy when starting.

Your reasoning is sound. I'll add a few notes for consideration.
  1. Good conclusion on the Generic. When temps hit -20F here there were probably a dozen Generacs that froze, puked their oil and shut down. The Generic guy was running around for a week getting them back up. They're not a reliable solution for primary off-grid power.
  2. Your arguments against a diesel are sound but diesels are the most trouble free and have a maintenance interval of 500 hours. Will your wife be able to change the oil in the propane unit every 50 hours? It's not hard and if set up well it can easily be done with a suction pump but service every 50 hours can be annoying.
  3. The photo below is the blown head gasket from a Westinghouse Wgen7500DF with about 600 hours on it. I've been toying with using two cheap propane generators (I love the single fuel plumbed into the 500 gallon tank) while my 7kW Perkins diesel is down for engine work after 19,000 trouble free hours. This shows the need for a backup at the ready to plug in and start.
  4. Will you need the generator to operate remotely while you're in Europe? The cost effectiveness of a diesel may skyrocket if the cheap propane unit fails and causes problems (frozen pipes, lost food, etc .) in your house while you're away.
  5. There's not a simple one-size-fits-all answer (other than NOT buying a Generic ;)).
  6. Regardless, plan to locate the generator in a fire safe location away from the house and propane tank.
Westinghouse Wgen7500DF blown head gasket at about 600 hours. It's up and running again but it showed a limitation of this type of product for off-grid needs. My guess is that the head bolts needed retorquing but that's not part of their maintenance procedures.
IMG_3581.jpeg
 
For everyday use I would suggest you look into a liquid cooled generator. Lasts much longer and quieter too, less maintenance. And also, you could go diesel gen set using off road fuel which is cheaper and the gen set will outlive you by far. Lastly, there is a company called Polar Power:


Here you can get exactly the DC generator to meet your needs of charging your batteries.

Good luck.
Thanks for the tip on polar power.

This propane powered Toyota genset is remarkably attractive. I'm interested to hear back from them on pricing and availability.

If that's out of the question a diesel powered 100 amp 48 volt genset is also a nice solution to replace my 19,000 hour Perkins diesel.
 
Why and how are you using 40kwh per day? The only thing I can think of that uses that much power is heating - and if so, why not use all that fuel for heating directly? Are you aware that an engine loses 80% of the fuel's energy to waste heat? (I know you get some efficiency back with the COP of heat pumps being greater than 1, but still....).

If you could set things up to capture that heat inside you home that would be good.
 
Thanks for the tip on polar power.

This propane powered Toyota genset is remarkably attractive. I'm interested to hear back from them on pricing and availability.

If that's out of the question a diesel powered 100 amp 48 volt genset is also a nice solution to replace my 19,000 hour Perkins diesel.
Let us know how much the polar power unit is, based on the pricing of some other units I wouldn't be surprised it that ended up being $50k+ as a prime power unit i.e designed to run continously, I think there's a $4k polar power on site tech visit required for official commissioning/warranty as well.
 
What are the low temps that the generator will operate in? Below 0F - 10F a propane generator can get grumpy when starting.

Your reasoning is sound. I'll add a few notes for consideration.
  1. Good conclusion on the Generic. When temps hit -20F here there were probably a dozen Generacs that froze, puked their oil and shut down. The Generic guy was running around for a week getting them back up. They're not a reliable solution for primary off-grid power.
  2. Your arguments against a diesel are sound but diesels are the most trouble free and have a maintenance interval of 500 hours. Will your wife be able to change the oil in the propane unit every 50 hours? It's not hard and if set up well it can easily be done with a suction pump but service every 50 hours can be annoying.
  3. The photo below is the blown head gasket from a Westinghouse Wgen7500DF with about 600 hours on it. I've been toying with using two cheap propane generators (I love the single fuel plumbed into the 500 gallon tank) while my 7kW Perkins diesel is down for engine work after 19,000 trouble free hours. This shows the need for a backup at the ready to plug in and start.
  4. Will you need the generator to operate remotely while you're in Europe? The cost effectiveness of a diesel may skyrocket if the cheap propane unit fails and causes problems (frozen pipes, lost food, etc .) in your house while you're away.
  5. There's not a simple one-size-fits-all answer (other than NOT buying a Generic ;)).
  6. Regardless, plan to locate the generator in a fire safe location away from the house and propane tank.
Westinghouse Wgen7500DF blown head gasket at about 600 hours. It's up and running again but it showed a limitation of this type of product for off-grid needs. My guess is that the head bolts needed retorquing but that's not part of their maintenance procedures.
View attachment 274034


Just to confirm with specifics about my propane generator. My Kohler 14RCA is a primary type generator and will start/run easily at -30C with its carburator heater (on thermostat set to heat at -15C). It is operating autonomously for the last 4-5 years flawlessly. The design of the set is made to be customer maintainable. Changing oil, spark plugs, filters is easy especially with the training of the technicial at the commissionning. Maintenance schedule is every 100h and fits with my annual usage. Can't talk for the other brands/models.
 
I would get something japanese , Yanmar, Kubota , Mitsubushi, or cummings diesel. they run forever if you change the oil in time.

diesel generrator has 25% efficiency, maybe heat exchange to water buffer to heat the house if you generate 20Kwh from a 25kw genset you will have 800 liters of water on 80 celcius from it.
 
This is great, let me do them one at a time.

Will your wife be able to change the oil in the propane unit every 50 hours? It's not hard and if set up well it can easily be done with a suction pump but service every 50 hours can be annoying.

I'm going to mount the gennys on metal racks about four feet above the floor, I own a welder so I'll just fab them myself. I'm too old to be futzing with a generator down on the floor. At 48" they are easy to work on and draining and filling the oil is easy, a couple of hard lines with a stopcock mean it can be drained with a flick of the wrist, even my wife can do that.


The photo below is the blown head gasket from a Westinghouse Wgen7500DF with about 600 hours on it. I've been toying with using two cheap propane generators (I love the single fuel plumbed into the 500 gallon tank) while my 7kW Perkins diesel is down for engine work after 19,000 trouble free hours. This shows the need for a backup at the ready to plug in and start.

Agreed, if I have two side by side with a transfer switch I can swap between them and have redundancy, in fact I can run the first one for 50 hours then switch to genny B and run it for 50 hours and do the oil changes in the summer. Remember I only need a couple hours per day in the month of December. I may need an occaisional boost in Nov or Jan but only if I get a no sun anomoly.


Will you need the generator to operate remotely while you're in Europe? The cost effectiveness of a diesel may skyrocket if the cheap propane unit fails and causes problems (frozen pipes, lost food, etc .) in your house while you're away.

I'm not going to spend thousands more to make sure the genny runs when I'm in Europe because then I wouldn't be able to go to Europe. It's a circular - no win - argument. I prefer to be an optimist. I've got a redundant genny, if i need to I could call my neighbor and tell him to go switch the transfer switch to genny B.


There's not a simple one-size-fits-all answer (other than NOT buying a Generic ;)).

And I'm thankful I started this thread and found out before I spent any $ on one.


Regardless, plan to locate the generator in a fire safe location away from the house and propane tank.

I had a decent idea the other day, I'll build a 4x8 room on the back of the shed with the door to the room coming from inside the shed. I'll build half walls on the genny room and leave the top half open but it will be fully framed and have a roof. That should be open enough to let the gennys breath when they are running. Next I'll build some wooden framed panels I can put into the top half openings if/when I want to do maintenance so that I can close the room in, open the door from inside allowing the space to be heated. When the maintenance is done I close the door, go outside and pull the panels off and fire them up.
 
Why and how are you using 40kwh per day? The only thing I can think of that uses that much power is heating - and if so, why not use all that fuel for heating directly?


That's a great question and I don't have any real science to back up that number for my needs. It's a rough guess and maybe it's too high.

I currently use between 60 and 80kWh per day but my wife and I both work from home so the heat is always on in our current house, we also cook and eat all three meals here everyday. It's a forced air NG furnace and I run an electronics shop so there's a whole pile of lights and gear running all day long. We also have a Jacuzzi and a server rack. On the weekends I can be found to be either running woodworking gear, welding or doing auto repairs with a big air compressor/sand blaster. So that = 60-80kWh/day.

The new house will be in floor radiant heat (propane boiler). The stove and dryer will be propane all the lights will be LED and with the business shut down (retirement) I am downsizing a full computer rack onto a laptop with a few network devices (LAN switch and WiFi). The house will actually no have any need for 240V. No more Jacuzzi :-(. The largest load my be my old plasma TV.

I plan to run a separate genny to make 240V when I want to run a welder or compressor or saw in the shop.

So... a 2 bedroom house with in floor gas heat, and minimal appliances, it will have the latest and greatest windows and insulation.

Maybe 40kWh/day is not a correct assessment?
 
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