Canada Equipment sourcing (PV,Inv,Cells) suggestions and tips for a non-Canadian

[Doug42]

Hello!

I am doing an install on an off grid cabin in Canada which may or may not get connected to the grid in the future (probably never have a feed in tariff though).
Roof space for ~ 30 panels
inverter ~8KW
Battery - DIY 48v 280Ah (I will probably default Gobel power as they have not done me wrong yet)

My issue is, I am not experienced at sourcing things in Canada, I am not even sure what happens if you try to bring something over the US border.
I am currently in Europe and my GoogleFu is failing to penetrate the internet and get good Canadian specific results (I should probably start using a VPN)

Are there any Canadians out there that could give me an idiots guide to sourcing in Canada?
how bad are the US border customs?
do you get issues ordering from China and it getting caught up in US?
Good local Canadian equipment suppliers that have a competitive price?
Inverter recommendations? (you do seem to have slightly different market too)

(particularly tricky right now with the current admin of your neighbor)

Thanks in advance for anyone's time!

 

[David J]

Good Morning Doug
Canada is a very large country with vast areas of very low population.
I am in southwestern Ontario (Goderich) and have many sources of panels ( made in Canada).
Shipping of anything is easy and usually cheap or free.
Where are you doing this install?

 

[Oldphile]

I use google.ca when I want to find anything Canadian specific.

 

[RV8R]

I’m in BC (Pacific Coast). I will post some links for you;

Volts Energies|#1 Online Store of Generators, Solar Panels & Batteries

Canada's largest online retailer of Generators, Renewable Energy Products, Solar, Heaters, Solar panels & Batteries. A complete range of Victron Energy, Generac and Sterling Power Brands. Shop now for Second life and brand new Lithium-ion (LifePo4) batteries Shipping on all orders and all around...

volts.ca

Canadian Battery Suppliers | Canadian Energy

100% Canadian-owned battery and related products distribution organization with sales, service and recycling capability from coast to coast

www.cdnrg.com

All Off-Grid Products | The Cabin Depot Canada

Explore off-grid essentials like toilets, power solutions & more for cabins & tiny homes at The Cabin Depot Canada.

thecabindepot.ca

Off Grid Living Products for Your Cottage or Cabin

Canadian Off Grid is a family-owned small business in Ontario, Canada. We make off-grid living easier with expert knowledge and great products. Our personalized recommendations for solar power, appliances, climate control, incinerating toilets, etc can make your off-grid cottage or cabin more...

canadianoffgriddepot.com

Canadian Solar – Global

Dr. Shawn Qu, Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer founded Canadian Solar (NASDAQ: CSIQ) in 2001 in Canada, with a bold mission: to foster sustainable development and to create a better and cleaner earth for future generations by bringing electricity powered by the sun to millions of...

www.canadiansolar.com

Contact Us

shop.frankensolar.ca

Batteries | Rolls Battery

rollsbattery.com

UL 9540 Regulations in Canada: What You Need to Know

The UL 9540 certification is a relatively new safety standard in Canada, designed specifically for energy storage systems (ESS). This regulation adds an extra layer of protection, ensuring that batteries, inverters, and control systems within an ESS meet strict safety and performance...

www.reesolar.ca

https://esasafe.com/assets/files/esasafe/pdf/Electrical_Safety_Products/Bulletins/64-08-1.pdf

RV Superstore Canada

rvsuperstorecanada.ca

RV Parts Online Canada, your Canadian RV Parts & Accessories online retailer.

Thank you for choosing RV Parts Online Canada, your Canadian online one stop shop retailer for all RV Parts & Accessories needs. Great prices & great service.

www.rvpartsonlinecanada.com

TMG Industrial Solar Cloudy Weather Kit 5k Sol-Ark Inverter & 15 kw Battery, Optional Split-Phase Output(120/240) with Charge Controller, Off-Grid Solar System Solution, TMG-SP9302

The TMG-SP9302 48 V 5 Kw Split Phase [120/240] Solar Kit is a hassle-free solution for powering cottages, homes, and more. Featuring a 48 V UL Approved Sol-Ark 5Kw Inverter, this kit simplifies the installation process with built-in protection, eliminating the need for fuses or breakers. Ideal...

tmgindustrial.ca

I will leave it there for ya !!

 

[RV8R]

@Doug42

The coldest temperature I have experienced is -44C ,,, it was in Canada.

In Canada ,,, Depending where you are ,,, Seasons Matter with Battery Choice.

I have Rolls AGMs for my tiny 12vdc systems.

If we know more about what you are trying to achieve, we might be more helpful to your endeavour.

 

[quantum`]

If I were you I'd source from Alibaba and import using a customs broker.

 

[yabert]

Solaronline.ca also have good price.

 

[Doug42]

@Doug42

The coldest temperature I have experienced is -44C ,,, it was in Canada.

In Canada ,,, Depending where you are ,,, Seasons Matter with Battery Choice.

I have Rolls AGMs for my tiny 12vdc systems.

If we know more about what you are trying to achieve, we might be more helpful to your endeavour.

oo0of yeah that is rough. I have spent a couple of winters there, -20C was as low as I got.

Sorry, yes I did leave out some details, I didn't want the first post to become an essay. To fill in some gaps:
it is an insulated cottage next to a lake about 2 hours drive south of Ottawa. Currently there is an old solar system, 2 panels ,24V AGM, 2KW inverter. It was installed in the early days of the solar revolution, it just runs lights, laptops and stuff. the fridge and cooker are propane and the heating is a wood fire.

Goal of the new system is to have the capacity for the cooker and fridge to shift over to electric when they are getting to end of life, allow use of other kitchen gizmos such as microwave and power an air to air heat pump, mostly for AC in summer and hopefully displace some of the wood burning in the colder months. This is a get away cottage rather than full time so the approach is basically to stick as many solar panels up as possible (Seems to be room for about 30, south east and south west facing) and make the most of it. If it turns out its cold dark and miserable come the peak of winter, retreat is always an option.

Whilst I have been there I was always surprised how sunny winter was even though it was fantastically cold at times. Guess it is far enough north of Toronto lake and my expectations for sun are rock bottom being a brit xD

The old system is inside but the request is to mount it onto the bottom of the cottage (It is on stilts and there is walking space underneath)
My plan is to make a folding down enclosure that fixes to the underside, fitted with heating pads and has the S*it insulated out of it. To deal with snow on panels when un-manned I am going to hang a couple of panels off the balcony facing south, being vertical they should be immune to snow build up and provide enough to keep the enclosure above 2C and the batteries charging. For heat I will fit an extraction fan and a gravity closed vent flap. I may thermally separate the inverter and battery and give them their own ventilation system. I will have the vertical panels connected to a simple MPPT so that the inverter can be switched off when leaving it un-manned and cut out that unnecessary 50W draw.

The install is for my partners parents, so I wont be around to keep eyeballs on it except about once a year... that is my main concern

 

[RV8R]

oo0of yeah that is rough. I have spent a couple of winters there, -20C was as low as I got.

Sorry, yes I did leave out some details, I didn't want the first post to become an essay. To fill in some gaps:
it is an insulated cottage next to a lake about 2 hours drive south of Ottawa. Currently there is an old solar system, 2 panels ,24V AGM, 2KW inverter. It was installed in the early days of the solar revolution, it just runs lights, laptops and stuff. the fridge and cooker are propane and the heating is a wood fire.

Goal of the new system is to have the capacity for the cooker and fridge to shift over to electric when they are getting to end of life, allow use of other kitchen gizmos such as microwave and power an air to air heat pump, mostly for AC in summer and hopefully displace some of the wood burning in the colder months. This is a get away cottage rather than full time so the approach is basically to stick as many solar panels up as possible (Seems to be room for about 30, south east and south west facing) and make the most of it. If it turns out its cold dark and miserable come the peak of winter, retreat is always an option.

Whilst I have been there I was always surprised how sunny winter was even though it was fantastically cold at times. Guess it is far enough north of Toronto lake and my expectations for sun are rock bottom being a brit xD

The old system is inside but the request is to mount it onto the bottom of the cottage (It is on stilts and there is walking space underneath)
My plan is to make a folding down enclosure that fixes to the underside, fitted with heating pads and has the S*it insulated out of it. To deal with snow on panels when un-manned I am going to hang a couple of panels off the balcony facing south, being vertical they should be immune to snow build up and provide enough to keep the enclosure above 2C and the batteries charging. For heat I will fit an extraction fan and a gravity closed vent flap. I may thermally separate the inverter and battery and give them their own ventilation system. I will have the vertical panels connected to a simple MPPT so that the inverter can be switched off when leaving it un-manned and cut out that unnecessary 50W draw.

The install is for my partners parents, so I wont be around to keep eyeballs on it except about once a year... that is my main concern

That is a lot to digest , but right off the bat is a fridge ,,, I just upgraded our remote cabin to an “Adult Fridge” from a 12vdc fridge ,,, With what I know now as we ran almost everything in our cabin on 12vdc like an RV is split your 120vac loads into 2 categories;

24/7 120vac Loads ( Inverter always in Standby )
&
Inverter Off unless needed Loads ( manual On/Off inverter )

If your only 24/7 120vac loads is a Fridge, then I would have a dedicated “low standby power” consumption inverter that is dedicated for the 120vac fridge. Victron has other modes of “standby power”, the issue is they can be finicky with the needs of the fridge ,,, IMO it is best to pick out an efficient dedicated inverter if the Fridge is the only 120vac appliance that needs 24/7.

Here is my Tiny Cabin ,, Fridge Inverter Story;

Thread 'Tiny Cabin - What To Do'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/tiny-cabin-what-to-do.85978/

How far do you have to go for Propane ? All things Heat for propane isn’t bad ,,, but a propane fridge is terrible. 1 - 20lb bbq tank of propane hold the same amount of energy as 116 - 100Ah 12v LFP Batteries. We use Propane to heat our cabin & to cook with.

Air Conditioning (over night) will be tough unless you get really great sun & a large battery bank.

Regarding batteries ,, If remote, cold, & unattended “Battery” choice & the ability to shut it down & it survive is paramount ,,, you have AGMs now ,,, maybe that is best.

.

 

[Doug42]

Good Morning Doug
Canada is a very large country with vast areas of very low population.
I am in southwestern Ontario (Goderich) and have many sources of panels ( made in Canada).
Shipping of anything is easy and usually cheap or free.
Where are you doing this install?

Hey David, thanks for the reply

About 2 hours south of Ottawa

I would be biased towards buying canadian but im not religious about it depending on price. what were your sources?

 

[Doug42]

I use google.ca when I want to find anything Canadian specific.

Huh. Never thought of that.. thanks, will give it a try!

 

[Doug42]

If I were you I'd source from Alibaba and import using a customs broker.

I read some posts about that but heard some horror stories which put me off and a feel a little out of my depth. Is that viable for small scale such as single home installs? Might have to get on that learning curve eventually. at what point in the process do you get them involved?

 

[yabert]

stick as many solar panels up as possible (Seems to be room for about 30

Time to buy a complete pallet
Think about snow. That drop production a lot during the months with the less sun.
You can have 15 000W of solar installed, but shade and snow can drop this to 100W even in a fully sunny day.

 

[Doug42]

Time to buy a complete pallet
Think about snow. That drop production a lot during the months with the less sun.
You can have 15 000W of solar installed, but shade and snow can drop this to 100W even in a fully sunny day.

Perhaps you are right. my first full pallet
yeah the snow could be annoying. It is single story so a long stick could be a none ideal solution. my main concern about the snow is making sure there is enough power to keep the battery above 0 otherwise will end up with a flat battery that has to wait for the weather to go back above 0 before recharging, sun or not. which if long enough could do some damage..

Side note, Big Props on the EV conversion!

 

[yabert]

yeah the snow could be annoying.

Yes, in fact, you will produce way more energy with 8-10 panels ideally place for snow removal and with winter angle (45-60°) than with 30 panels full of snow at poor angle for winter months.
The best year around angle is never the best angle for those critical winter months (nov, dec, jan).

Side note, Big Props on the EV conversion!

Thanks. This is another way to bring energy to your off grid cabin.
Charge your EV few km from your cabin and then charge the cabin battery with your EV

 

[Doug42]

Yes, in fact, you will produce way more energy with 8-10 panels ideally place for snow removal and with winter angle (45-60°) than with 30 panels full of snow at poor angle for winter months.
The best year around angle is never the best angle for those critical winter months (nov, dec, jan).

Words of wisdom. I actually stumbled across the power of this with my van. I wanted to get rid of gas and cook on electric and have AC but I have a small nimble van good for climbing crags, bad for photon farming, so I mounted a 400W panel to the side on a hinge. the hinge does not see much use in winter and the old horizontal roof panels become basically irrelevant. I knew it would be better in winter but I didn't expect that world of difference. It is obvious in hindsight. Gave me a greater appreciation of angles

Although there is something to be said for pointing up when it is cloudy. A mix would be best

You are right about the angle compromise. my experience so far is you end up with more power that you know what to do with in summer so you might as well optimise more for winter

I dream of an EV conversion for my van one day. It is trying to get it insured afterwards that holds me back (and time, and money, and the long list of other unrealized projects)

another way to bring energy to your off grid cabin.
Charge your EV few km from your cabin and then charge the cabin battery with your EV

You know that's actually not so far fetched.. they do not have an EV now but I suspect their next car would be.. might pass the idea on as I think some EVs make this difficult still

 

[Doug42]

That is a lot to digest , but right off the bat is a fridge ,,, I just upgraded our remote cabin to an “Adult Fridge” from a 12vdc fridge ,,, With what I know now as we ran almost everything in our cabin on 12vdc like an RV is split your 120vac loads into 2 categories;

24/7 120vac Loads ( Inverter always in Standby )
&
Inverter Off unless needed Loads ( manual On/Off inverter )

If your only 24/7 120vac loads is a Fridge, then I would have a dedicated “low standby power” consumption inverter that is dedicated for the 120vac fridge. Victron has other modes of “standby power”, the issue is they can be finicky with the needs of the fridge ,,, IMO it is best to pick out an efficient dedicated inverter if the Fridge is the only 120vac appliance that needs 24/7.

Here is my Tiny Cabin ,, Fridge Inverter Story;

Thread 'Tiny Cabin - What To Do'
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/tiny-cabin-what-to-do.85978/

How far do you have to go for Propane ? All things Heat for propane isn’t bad ,,, but a propane fridge is terrible. 1 - 20lb bbq tank of propane hold the same amount of energy as 116 - 100Ah 12v LFP Batteries. We use Propane to heat our cabin & to cook with.

Air Conditioning (over night) will be tough unless you get really great sun & a large battery bank.

Regarding batteries ,, If remote, cold, & unattended “Battery” choice & the ability to shut it down & it survive is paramount ,,, you have AGMs now ,,, maybe that is best.

.

That's not a bad idea about splitting the loads. I might steal it. the old inverter could serve this purpose although I have not measured its standby power draw. It would probably just be the fridge on 24/7. Maybe the lights too for convenience then put a power switch in the kitchen for the beefy inverter.

that just leaves cooking for the propane which imho is as good if not better on induction. I know a lot of people have weirdly strong feelings on this and each to their own I say gas does hold a lot of energy but a lot of that skips the pan and goes straight up the extraction, which one has cranked because of all the moisture combustion generates, and you can't fill the tank back up with sunlight. I cook in my van year round on induction (Europe) on about 700W PV parked under a tree half the time so i'm not too worried about the energy requirements and it would be nice to just delete the gas system for simplicity. Im not knocking your set up, sometimes it just makes sense for gas and I was always impressed by how long the bottles lasted before I switched

AC isn't too much of an issue because generally when you need it, its sunny. AC at night though is a good point. Other people have higher standards than me, it didn't occur to me that people would run it over night food for thought

The battery will be big as there is just a sweet spot price wise. 48V 280Ah only costs ~$1200USD for 15KWh delivered duty paid (DIY) with BMS
but it will be interesting to see how things go and if they need a second battery in the future. or maybe a smarter setup would be 2 batteries and 20 panels Over 1 battery and 30 panels (im finding panels around 110USD atm so 1 battery cost the same as ~10 panels). I may have to go back to modelling...

The bottle neck to give will be the heatpump use, but that can be supplemented with the fireplace

 

[RV8R]

That's not a bad idea about splitting the loads. I might steal it. the old inverter could serve this purpose although I have not measured its standby power draw. It would probably just be the fridge on 24/7. Maybe the lights too for convenience then put a power switch in the kitchen for the beefy inverter.

that just leaves cooking for the propane which imho is as good if not better on induction. I know a lot of people have weirdly strong feelings on this and each to their own I say gas does hold a lot of energy but a lot of that skips the pan and goes straight up the extraction, which one has cranked because of all the moisture combustion generates, and you can't fill the tank back up with sunlight. I cook in my van year round on induction (Europe) on about 700W PV parked under a tree half the time so i'm not too worried about the energy requirements and it would be nice to just delete the gas system for simplicity. Im not knocking your set up, sometimes it just makes sense for gas and I was always impressed by how long the bottles lasted before I switched

AC isn't too much of an issue because generally when you need it, its sunny. AC at night though is a good point. Other people have higher standards than me, it didn't occur to me that people would run it over night food for thought

The battery will be big as there is just a sweet spot price wise. 48V 280Ah only costs ~$1200USD for 15KWh delivered duty paid (DIY) with BMS
but it will be interesting to see how things go and if they need a second battery in the future. or maybe a smarter setup would be 2 batteries and 20 panels Over 1 battery and 30 panels (im finding panels around 110USD atm so 1 battery cost the same as ~10 panels). I may have to go back to modelling...

The bottle neck to give will be the heatpump use, but that can be supplemented with the fireplace

The specs of some of these inverters can be very good for “standby” for a dedicated 24/7 always on inverter;



So a 6W drain in 24 hours isn’t too bad @ 144Wh ,,, Someday I might buy a small inverter so I can turn off my Victron 3000 other than bigger loads ,,, the standby on that one is spec!d @ 20W. If you are going to throw up a ton of panels & have sun then it might not matter much.

Same goes for propane ,,, if you have enough sun & panels then why not do everything via Solar rather than propane ,,, just makes good sense.

How you design for heat, A/C, cooking, etc should really be in consideration of how the cabin will be used. Pros & Cons to each energy choice & I an not in any camp; wood, propane, gasoline, solar, diesel ,,, makes not difference to me as long as I think thru the Pros & Cons on how we use ,,, or intend to use our cabin.

 

[HarryN]

When air conditioning is needed, it can be pretty tricky to keep the power draw under ~ 1 kW average, so that can really put a dent in a battery pack reserve. A modest size generator ( 5 - 10 kW ) with a remote electric start - run it 1 - 2 hours / day to supplement - can really help.

Fuel aging can become a problem in an occasional use cabin, so a propane generator can make sense.