Canadian lithium Options MSI and Lynac

[Barold]

I am not affiliated with these companies. Thought I'd share as it seems like there are a few Canucks on this forum.

Marine Solutions Inc - Saw their goods at the boat show and bought a solar kit from them. This looks pretty robust - $2400CAD for 3kwh or 240AH. Seems like a nice option for a well built battery compared to some of the drop in 300AH LiFePO4 batteries I've seen around. There is another company Lynac Lithium in Thunder Bay that is selling Lithium 'drop ins' for around the same price but look more like a traditional battery.

 

[Bishop]

Thanks Barold, I just joined this forum in the hopes to get some advice on solar products available in Canada.

 

[Steve_S]

Hmmm: 6 KWH Capacity (Approximately 480Ah) $3999 CAD / $3061 USD not bad.
They do not list their price on the 12KWH unit though.

Comparison. I am just now getting ready to build 2x 280AH packs @ 24V for 560AH total (13.4Kwh)
Product price (16 cells) = $1322.72 + Air-Freight $1093 + 22 bus bars $17.6 = Grand Total $2433.32 USD delivered to my door in Ontario Canada near Algonquin Park. Link to Xuba's 280AH cells
NOTE on S&H: The price that comes up automatically for the USA is a general base cost, specific destinations may vary. Pkg weight is 110 Kgs / 242 Lbs.

I will be taking these 16 Cells and building two 8S (24V/280AH) packs, each with a Chargery BMS8T-300 an using 2-200A relays in concert with each pack. These are a bit more expensive than the cheaper BT smart BMS' $192 USD (each) with 2-200A relays & delay board + Air S&H. These use external relays to handle Hi Amperage, Charging etc. These also have Low Temp Cutoff which is an essential up here in Canada.

DIY Build:
16 Cells: $2433.32 USD
2 BMS: $384.00 USD
Total: $2817.32 for 24V/560AH *(1120AH if 12V)

MSI-Pack specs:

 

[JoeMiedema]

Thanks for the info! I am just talking with Connor at Lynac recently and they are about to launch their updated 100AH 12V LFP battery line to have better temperature performance and actually discharge up to 100AH instead of 80ish.

Some details:
Rated Capacity: 121.6Ah ± 4 @ (0.2C), 1556.48Wh
Nominal Voltage: 12.8 Vdc
Cycle Life: 1,600 @ 0.2C (100% DOD), 3,200 @ 0.2C (80% DOD), 5,600 @ 0.2C (50% DOD)
Dimensions: BCI Group Fit 24, 27, 31, 34: L 259 × W 167 × H 212mm (10.2 x 6.57 x 8.35”)
Weight: 13.1kg (28.8lbs)
Battery Management System: Passive: Temperature, Current, Voltage, Short Circuit, Cell Balancing
Cells: IFR 26650 - 3.2Vdc - 3800mAh - LiFePO4, 4S32P
Charging Method: Constant Current - Constant Voltage (CC - CV): (0.2C to 14.4Vdc) - (14.4Vdc to 0.01C)
Voltage Limits: Charge: 14.6Vdc, Discharge: 10Vdc
Current Limits: Charge: 61Adc, Discharge: 100Adc
Temperature Limits: Charge 0 ~ 55°C, Discharge -10 ~ 50°C, Storage -20 ~ 60°C
Connectivity: Series: 4 Units (48Vdc 100Ah), Parallel: 5 Units (12Vdc 500Ah)
Terminal Connector: Brass M8 Screw
Warranty: 3 Year Manufacturer Limited
Ingress Protection: IP44 (Splash Proof)

Has anyone else looked at the new battery linked here? They are $847CDN
Lynac 100AH link

I am hoping to buy two and put them in series for a simple 24V offgrid.

Cheers, Joe

I am not affiliated with these companies. Thought I'd share as it seems like there are a few Canucks on this forum.

Marine Solutions Inc - Saw their goods at the boat show and bought a solar kit from them. This looks pretty robust - $2400CAD for 3kwh or 240AH. Seems like a nice option for a well built battery compared to some of the drop in 300AH LiFePO4 batteries I've seen around. There is another company Lynac Lithium in Thunder Bay that is selling Lithium 'drop ins' for around the same price but look more like a traditional battery.

 

[JoeHam]

Has anyone else looked at the new battery linked here?

Lynac 100AH link

Is that $847 USD or CAD?

For comparison look here:

FuelZero 12v 100AH Deep Cycle LIFEPO4 Battery

This 12v Lithium Ion (LIFEPO4) Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery is the best value available in Lithium Ion Batteries. They are safe, powerful, lightweight, and offer a superior lifetime over all other battery types. High Quality and Long Life.

www.fuelzero.com

I have no real world experience with either one.

 

[JoeMiedema]

Hi Joe, those are $847 CDN! And Connor will knock it down to the previous model price which was $800/unit CDN if you ask nice

Will check out the ones you linked now.

Is that $847 USD or CAD?

For comparison look here:

FuelZero 12v 100AH Deep Cycle LIFEPO4 Battery

This 12v Lithium Ion (LIFEPO4) Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery is the best value available in Lithium Ion Batteries. They are safe, powerful, lightweight, and offer a superior lifetime over all other battery types. High Quality and Long Life.

www.fuelzero.com

I have no real world experience with either one.

 

[seahaul]

How do we get Will Prowse to test the Lynac

 

[KBWaldron]

Just received two of the Lynac 25.6 (nominal 24) volt 100 Ah batteries. Note that these are actually rated 120 Ah but Lynac recommends only 80% discharge so market them at the lower capacity. Price was $1482 Cdn each, after 10% discount.
Even though each of these weigh 50 lbs each there was no shipping charge within Canada. Can’t speak for to the US. shipping costs.
So, by my calculations, that works out to $480 cdn ($375 us)/kwh. For a new battery with built-in BMS that is pretty good.
I paid almost the same for the used batteries in the background of this photo for basically the same capacity. Note that those old batteries are sitting in an 8” well so they are about twice the size, and weight.
The new batteries arrived charged to the exact same voltage of 26.39 volts.
Once these are installed I’ll have a total capacity of 10 kWh in my trailer.

 

[fuchsia]

i have a 24 volt system, is it better to get two of these 24volt x 100 in parallel or two 12volt x 200 in series. Thx

 

[KBWaldron]

Here is my thinking on that question.
Two batteries in series can get out of balance with each other, just as the series cells within each battery would get out of balance if not for a BMS.
If one of the batteries should die for some reason, you no longer have 24volts. With two batteries there is twice the chance, albeit a low chance, that could happen.
Two batteries in parallel will balance against each other. That’s why when you connect them together you have to ensure they are at or very near the same voltage. If one dies you still have 24volts, just less capacity. You always have the option to disconnect one if you should need to.
Since the C charging rate is a factor of the individual battery’s capacity you can charge at twice the rate with a parallel set up, assuming you have enough solar capacity to do so. All things being equal you will end up charging at a lower C rate in parallel which is better for the batteries. Similarly you are discharging at a lower rate as well.
So: no balancing issue; no issue if one battery dies; lower charge and discharge rates. It seems to me that parallel is better.

 

[fuchsia]

Thx KBWaldron, i have heard pro's and cons both ways, yours makes the most sense

 

[KBWaldron]

To clarify and correct something I said that might be misleading.
If you compare like kWh capacities then serial and parallel can charge at the same speed. Two serial batteries at 12v 200 Ah, are the equivalent of two parallel batteries at 24v 100Ah. Both have a .2C rate of 40A.
The parallel setup splits the 40A to 20A into each battery, the serial pushes 40A into the two serial batteries. Both are at .2C.
When I said that the parallel setup could charge at twice the rate I was assuming both serial and parallel setups had individual batteries of the same capacity, which is not an equivalent comparison.
Otherwise, I stand by everything else I said.

 

[fuchsia]

Thx but I am more confused now, watching one of Wills video's he says lithium are better and happier in series than in parallel. Confused in ontario

 

[KBWaldron]

Which video?

 

[fuchsia]

I am running a Magna-sine 4024 with 4 agm 6 volt in series 400 amp, with a daily draw about 600 watts

 

[fuchsia]

his video on batteries in parallel or series

 

[Steve_S]

As KB pointed out, Series Batteries with LFP will only increase Voltage and should one of those BMS' fail in the series set, the overvolt dumped on the other will cause a BMS trip IF LUCKY or Magic Smoke if not lucky. Odds favour of Magic Smoke.

Batteries in Parallel dive & share load/charge between themselves. They increase the Amp Hours this way but not voltage. Any single battery can shutdown in parallel and the other(s) will keep going. No Voltage Overage so no opportunity for Magic Smoke.

Batteries in Parallel should be close to each other in Specs. Volts / AmpHours. If you have 100AH & 200AH in parallel some strange things can & do happen unless planned for, some of it is BMS related.

Batteries in Parallel should ALL have BMS' that can allow each battery to act as a Single Standalone in the event other batteries in the bank shutdown for any reason. This applies to Charge & Discharge capacity handling.

Hope it helps,
Good luck
Steve

 

[fuchsia]

thx Steve, Im about 2 hours north west of you on my island in Restoule. I was just asking the best way to go with LFP batteries for 24 volt system 2 x 24 volt parallel or 2 x 12 volt in series, I watched a video of Wills and he said LFP are happier in series, need to find the link. What your saying makes total sense, just asking whats best, Looking at CANBAT or the SOK, can take home in the winter and just run my honda for few days ice fishing.Thx to KB and yourself for input. James

 

[fuchsia]

forgot 12 volt are 200amp, 24 volt are 100 amp

 

[KBWaldron]

thx Steve, Im about 2 hours north west of you on my island in Restoule. I was just asking the best way to go with LFP batteries for 24 volt system 2 x 24 volt parallel or 2 x 12 volt in series, I watched a video of Wills and he said LFP are happier in series, need to find the link. What your saying makes total sense, just asking whats best, Looking at CANBAT or the SOK, can take home in the winter and just run my honda for few days ice fishing.Thx to KB and yourself for input. James

Here's the link to the video you are referring to. Note Will mentions this might be an issue if you have three or more batteries in parallel, which it sounds like you are not. His main concern seems to be about one of the batteries going bad which can affect the other batteries. He mentions that if all batteries are the same, and used the same this likely is not an issue.
With new batteries I think either is fine, but 12V is going to cost you more overall. He discusses why in that video.
I will have four batteries in parallel, two old and two new.
My take on this is the following:
When a battery starts to degrade the internal resistance starts to increase, particularly as you approach a full charge. But that just means that the amps will start flowing to the other batteries. Because the batteries are in parallel they will, for the most part stay at the same voltage. In a series setup, one battery starting to lose capacity drags all the other batteries down to that same level. If you aren't monitoring all batteries it is possible you may overcharge that battery. Again, new matched batteries should not be an issue.
Now, should one of a parallel set of batteries short internally (i.e. one cell shorts) then you suddenly have a battery that only will support 21 volts nominal, and that will pull the others down, probably rather quickly creating magic smoke if you have not protected against this possibility. You can protect against this by adding fuses or breakers between the batteries. Will discusses how Tesla does this in their battery packs.
By the way, that magic smoke? It's your wires giving up the ghost, and possibly your batteries if you have heavy gauge wires that take a minute to melt.
Since you have only two batteries one fuse would suffice. A fuse sized about 60% of your maximum expected draw should suffice. Remember each battery only provides half the current.
The process of responding to this topic has convinced me to add fuses as described.
I will have three fuses, since you need one less fuse than parallel batteries.