CATL 271Ah cell issues.

stienman

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You certainly sound...

I did purchase and am still waiting for my CATL 271 cells I ordered in June.

I'm responding to your posts because it's people like you who jump the gun and immediately go on the offensive that make life harder for the rest of us. The actions and veiled threats you've promoted in your own thread and in other threads are only going to cause him to quiet even further. Every time he posts with some update you immediately attack him suggesting it's not enough, and encouraging others to join your club.

This only results in delaying updates, and makes it clear to others that they shouldn't start group buys and shoulder the burden that dealing with oversea products incurs.

I respect your opinion, and am sorry for the difficulty you're suffering from this purchase, however I'm not going to let your public attacks go by without comment. My questions to you are as relevant to me as your questions to Michael are to you.

You are toxic to this forum.
 

RobertGreen

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makes it clear to others that they shouldn't start group buys
I agree with your other points, but as far as group buys go--
Michael has more or less stated that if the Chinese supplier(s) doesn't make good on these bad cells, he won't be able to do so either.
And that is easily understandable; the supplier has the vast majority of those funds now.

I don't really understand how anyone is better off in terms of financial safety by participating in this type of group buy compared to simply ordering direct from a supplier on alibaba and using paypal/credit card for protection. I realize that the pricing might be more attractive in getting into a larger order, but unless the cells are all shipping to one location, I don't really know how much of a discount you can even get from aggregating a few thousand dollars worth of orders.

I think we would help each other more as a group by doing more vendor reviews and trying to establish more of a baseline for which alternative vendors have a good or bad track record. I'm currently expecting a box of cells from a less established vendor, and after I get them I will certainly post a review (in another thread). And I'm looking into ordering a couple more small groupings of cells from other vendors as well.
 

Rich585

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What gets me is this.
If you got a fucked up cell from Alibaba of aliexpres, what can you do . ?
Nothing. They are in china.
So michael helps by getting a better price , and because he is in the us , he is a target.
So relax everyone, at least we have him battling on our side. Win or loose , it's still better than dealing direct with china .
And yes , I have over $8k invested in all this shit. So yes I have a dog in the fight.
I agree. I am part of the group by and Michael has helped others on previous shipments.

Just imagine you ordered the cells direct from Alibaba vendor. The vendor has tracking that you received quantity of cells as ordered. They may try to lay blame on transporter, courier etc.

Over months I have read lots of posts of people dealing directly with Alibaba/Aliexpress vendor. There is tons of threads of people getting bloated, crappy cells from AliExpress and getting a$30 dollar refund for hours of work jumping through hoops such as:

Option 1 return order to China for refund except to properly package and ship 4-8 cells will cost you as much or more than what you paid.

Then you go to option 2. Do a capacity test on each cell with a non interrupted video 12 hours plus with proper equipment per cell or battery, repeat for all cells, upload to YouTube and then get $30-40 for each cell off ( for all the time to prove they are below spec).

CC over 60 days so charge back is not guaranteed cause you received delivery and same with paypal. Refund is only guaranteed if you don't get delivery.

They are in China. What other option you got. You can't sue the Chinese supplier.

At least Michael is trying to get compensation and cells exchanged. I look at it that Michael is seen as a repeat customer and that they will try to do something to save face. For example it appears the vendor has recalled the cells that were not delivered so those don't have the hassle of option 1 and 2 and may get lucky with replacement cells be shipped (with another 3 month wait).

If you are on your own and only buying 4 or 8 cells, you are SOL dealing with these vendors by yourself. US law / business practices don't apply in China.

The whole idea of the Group buy was to use a larger order to get suppliers to take it more seriously which is why I chose this path. If you don't see this as a plus then order yourself and take your chances.

Years ago when I started to buy from China on eBay, I received advice to not buy anything or spend amount of money that you can't afford to loose. Its like the casino, don't gamble money you need to pay the rent. These batteries are not cheap, I get it but if you want guaranteed performance, with warranty, then buy Battleborn or Dakota from US vendors and pay the price.

We are all gambling on this process to save money and give Michael a chance to help sort this out. When we placed our orders, it took 10-14 days to get a tracking number. If it took that long for the supplier in China to ship out the cells, they are not going to process refunds or replacements any faster than that.

To summarize above this is a bad situation but you don't shit on the only guy that can help you. He tried a new vendor which went bad especially due to number of cells involved.

He has indicated he is trying to help, he can't do any refunds until he gets refunded. He has shown good faith as he has been issuing refunds to those whose orders have not shipped.

Can his communication improve, sure it can, but read his posts, the battery buy is a side business to his main job and he can't be here full time. Also remember China is like 12 hours ahead so you have to be up at night to talk to them as China is closed during the day in NA.

As someone in a post above commented, you push someone to a cliff, he declares this business bankrupt on there you go. I am sure Michael as a independent business man has taken steps to protect himself in this type of endeavor. I don't think he went into this naïve. I do not believe that Michael is trying to screw anyone but you also have to look at the dollars involved and have a realistic look at what he can actually do and the time it takes to do it.

You did not buys cells from Michael battery store, you willingly gave him your money to buy cells from a Chinese vendor on your behalf.

Give him some time.

I got my tracking number on June 19 and it is still not active, so I may be in same boat at some time later on but don't expect North American instant gratification as the rest of work does not work that way. I am getting close to 90 days and it has not even hit North America yet. Am I getting nervous, yes, but what can I do until either the package is declared lost or it finally shows up? I am in this with the rest of you but ranting at the guy is not going to get your money back any faster.

Sorry for the long rant. I don't even know if this makes sense but it does to me.

That is all I have to say, there is a small number that is stirring the pot and I feel we should ignore their flaming and lets see what can be done to get this resolved by taking positive actions like in the other CATL thread of sending Michael pics of the cells etc so he has a case to demand a refund from the vendor on your behalf because that the only way refund will come.
 

Mightymach

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Jan 28, 2021
Messages
75
I did purchase and am still waiting for my CATL 271 cells I ordered in June.

I'm responding to your posts because it's people like you who jump the gun and immediately go on the offensive that make life harder for the rest of us. The actions and veiled threats you've promoted in your own thread and in other threads are only going to cause him to quiet even further. Every time he posts with some update you immediately attack him suggesting it's not enough, and encouraging others to join your club.

This only results in delaying updates, and makes it clear to others that they shouldn't start group buys and shoulder the burden that dealing with oversea products incurs.

I respect your opinion, and am sorry for the difficulty you're suffering from this purchase, however I'm not going to let your public attacks go by without comment. My questions to you are as relevant to me as your questions to Michael are to you.

You are toxic to this forum.

I have made no threats, veiled or otherwise. What begs the questions is why you are meandering in this making comments. You claim that you made a purchase, yet, your name is not listed on Michael's list. And, in the offhand chance that you did order in June as you stated, it will be interesting to see how your opinions morph when you begin getting close to your expiration period for your credit card. I will bet dollars to pay pennies that you will file a claim on your credit card. And, guess what? Nobody in here would fault you for it. But, because you are still within your window to file a dispute, don't disparage anyone for asking questions; yes, questions. If you truly believe that me (or anyone else) here asking questions has caused a delay in replies...well...even you know that's a baseless accusation as this only started due to a lack of replies. If you want to be the public defender, keyboard hero and continue to follow anything I post and attack even the most relevant questions, then knock yourself out. My questions remain the same. Your commitment to suppressing open communication when you are not affected is truly the toxic thing on this forum.

Gazoo, you as well. You also have not been affected by this, yet you both continually attack anyone that has asked questions and is out money.
Gazoo, it's really sweet you have come to sienman's defense and again asked if I was legal counsel. You're right, it could be asked of me. It has been asked of me. And again, I am not legal counsel. World, take note; without a doubt, he'll ask again.

@Michael B Caro
Now that that's out of the way, could you answer the aforementioned questions?


1. Where do things currently stand?
2. Did you send all of the photos you have had emailed to the supplier?
3. Can you begin to breakdown who's cells came from what supplier (supplier can be defined as A, B, and C for now).
4. Which suppliers have you contacted (A,B, C) and what is their response.

Again, thanks for answering.
 

Mightymach

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75
16 boxes here. All good shape. Cells perfect. Nothing to der here. Move on .
GFB batts
This is FANTASTIC news and I am truly happy for you! Your cells arriving undamaged and in perfect shape might indicate the supplier has listened to @Michael B Caro and has implemented much needed changes in their shipping practice.

Unfortunately, the arrival of your cells, though in perfect condition, doesn't address the concerns of others with damaged cells, which is the entire purpose of this thread (re: CATL 271Ah cell issues.).

Now, that the arrival of your cells indicate a change in future and present behaviors, may we again turn our attention to the purpose of this thread and address previous behavior and potential remedies for all of us affected.

And, lastly, while I personally cannot speak for all affected parties, Perhaps it is time a new thread is warranted where you can show your cells to put some of us at ease that the damaged cell debacle might be coming to an end and becoming a thing of the past.

Thanks again for the good news, it provides hope!
 

Bob B

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Messages
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This is FANTASTIC news and I am truly happy for you! Your cells arriving undamaged and in perfect shape might indicate the supplier has listened to @Michael B Caro and has implemented much needed changes in their shipping practice.

Unfortunately, the arrival of your cells, though in perfect condition, doesn't address the concerns of others with damaged cells, which is the entire purpose of this thread (re: CATL 271Ah cell issues.).

Now, that the arrival of your cells indicate a change in future and present behaviors, may we again turn our attention to the purpose of this thread and address previous behavior and potential remedies for all of us affected.

And, lastly, while I personally cannot speak for all affected parties, Perhaps it is time a new thread is warranted where you can show your cells to put some of us at ease that the damaged cell debacle might be coming to an end and becoming a thing of the past.

Thanks again for the good news, it provides hope!
I'm sure Michael will appreciate the cheerleading ..... but because a customer has received a completely different kind of cell ... almost surely from a different provider .... has no bearing whatsoever in indicating that the damaged cell debacle is coming to an end.
Many people are still out a lot of money .... and time waiting .... only to receive junk.
 
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Gazoo

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Gazoo, you as well. You also have not been affected by this, yet you both continually attack anyone that has asked questions and is out money.
You are wrong. I have been affected because I had recommended the group buy. If even just one person made a purchase based on my recommendation and received damaged cells then I am affected. Furthermore, the only one I have "attacked" is YOU and I have been as polite about it as I can be. If anyone else felt attacked because of anything I have said then I apologize.

Gazoo, you as well. You also have not been affected by this, yet you both continually attack anyone that has asked questions and is out money.
Gazoo, it's really sweet you have come to sienman's defense and again asked if I was legal counsel. You're right, it could be asked of me. It has been asked of me. And again, I am not legal counsel. World, take note; without a doubt, he'll ask again.
Wrong again. I said one could ask you if you are legal counsel. Personally I don't think you are but it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

The only one coming across as a keyboard hero is you. The appearance you have given in the other thread you started is you and your gathering of others are planning to take legal action against Michael in case things don't work out. Why else would you have started that thread and be asking for others information? It sure does come across as threating to me regardless of what your true intentions are and I don't believe you have any intentions of helping Michael by comparing information you receive from your gathering with the information Michael has. Hopefully Michael will not be sharing any information with you to compare "notes".

If I was Michael I wouldn't give you any information other than information that pertains directly to you. It would not matter to me if anyone else was asking the same questions. But you seem to be on a vendetta and that alone would be enough for me not to trust you if I was in Michaels' shoes.
 

Gazoo

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This isn't the place, gentlemen. If you want to tussle, take it to private messages, please.
You are of course correct. But when one makes false statements about me publicly I will respond publicly. And I would expect anyone else to do the same. Done with the tussle and unless "someone" aggravates me in this thread I have nothing more to say.
 

Mightymach

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You are wrong. I have been affected because I had recommended the group buy. If even just one person made a purchase based on my recommendation and received damaged cells then I am affected. Furthermore, the only one I have "attacked" is YOU and I have been as polite about it as I can be. If anyone else felt attacked because of anything I have said then I apologize.


Wrong again. I said one could ask you if you are legal counsel. Personally I don't think you are but it doesn't matter to me one way or the other.

The only one coming across as a keyboard hero is you. The appearance you have given in the other thread you started is you and your gathering of others are planning to take legal action against Michael in case things don't work out. Why else would you have started that thread and be asking for others information? It sure does come across as threating to me regardless of what your true intentions are and I don't believe you have any intentions of helping Michael by comparing information you receive from your gathering with the information Michael has. Hopefully Michael will not be sharing any information with you to compare "notes".

If I was Michael I wouldn't give you any information other than information that pertains directly to you. It would not matter to me if anyone else was asking the same questions. But you seem to be on a vendetta and that alone would be enough for me not to trust you if I was in Michaels' shoes.

So again, you are not directly affected. You're sticking your nose in someone's business; Good job! Exactly; you've attacked me. I never attacked you, or anyone else, yet you (you're not alone) attacked me. You didnt ask me if I was counsel? Great spin on semantics.

I was directly affected, you were not. You, my friend, are the keyboard hero. I can't help the way that YOU interpret anything I say or what anyone else says. You are the one that has one again assumed; in this case, legal action or my "threatening actions." Again, those are your words. This are your assumptions, not mine.

And where did I ever say I was working to help Michael out by comparing information? That's another assumption you have made. Hell, I never asked Michael for your information.... or anyone else's. But what if I did? What would it matter if I asked Michael if he sent the photos we all sent him to his supplier? What does it matter if Michael said Gazoo cells cans from supplier A and MightyMach cells came from supplier C. What's wrong with asking where are we at with the suppliers? And what does it matter asking if supplier A has agreed to refund, supplier B has agreed to resend, and supplier C has said to eat shit? Simply put, nothing. Michael could easily reply to our emails (where we sent photos) or PMs (where we placed orders and he supplied tracking information) and tell people which supplier their cells came from and then speak openly in the forum about the other questions. Your problem is, you've got a Hard on for me, for some unbeknownst reason. And, It's asinine, truthfully.

By you making public attacks on me (again, your words), you've detracted from the actual travesty-- dozens of people out hundreds or thousands of dollars.

If you want to attack me, send me a PM we can discuss it there. I'll even give you my number and we can discuss this over the phone. But you attacking me on every thread is getting old and helping nobody.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.
 
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Pyrofx

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I'm sure Michael will appreciate the cheerleading ..... but because a customer has received a completely different kind of cell ... almost surely from a different provider .... has no bearing whatsoever in indicating that the damaged cell debacle is coming to an end.
Many people are still out a lot of money .... and time waiting .... only to receive junk.
Ok putz. It ain't cheerleading.
Its showing all of the naysayers that he didnt pull a bunch of shit on everyone.
A bunch of yous seem to think he was involved in a sham. Dont denie it. You guys thought he was a shister.

Sorry for the rant . It's as clean as a Marine can put it.
 

Gazoo

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If you want to attack me, send me a PM we can discuss it there. I'll even give you my number and we can discuss this over the phone. But you attacking me on every thread is getting old and helping nobody.

Your cooperation is greatly appreciated.
I don't think a PM or a phone call would help. It's clear you and I don't see eye to eye and I have nothing to add to what I have posted. I could come back and reply to every sentence you wrote in your post but it's not worth it and I would be mostly repeating myself. This whole debacle has caused toxins to be introduced into this forum.

I have made it clear how badly I feel about what's happened here and I don't want anyone to lose any money. Whether or not you feel I am directly affected or not isn't relevant. You are not sitting in my shoes so you don't know how I feel.

I don't believe the thread you started is going to help either and that's my opinion. As far as I know you still have not explained your reasoning for starting it so I can draw only one conclusion. It's possible Michael could declare bankruptcy and wash his hands of this whole mess although I don't see him going in that direction. Finally, as I recall you did post something about Michael sharing information with you in your first post in the other thread. That's where I got that from and maybe I misunderstood your reasoning for asking him.
 

Bob B

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Ok putz. It ain't cheerleading.
Its showing all of the naysayers that he didnt pull a bunch of shit on everyone.
A bunch of yous seem to think he was involved in a sham. Dont denie it. You guys thought he was a shister.

Sorry for the rant . It's as clean as a Marine can put it.
Do you believe the post I was trying to correct was accurate?

I have been trying to stay out of this thread, but felt it was necessary to correct a statement that was radically incorrect. I am now a little suspicious that post was designed to get the reaction I provided.

Everyone's reaching the end of their patience with this fiasco .... including those of us who have been recommending Michael as a reliable way to get cells .... As Gazoo said, I feel somewhat responsible since some of the people may have found this group buy because of a recommendation I made. ......... I don't blame you for being angry and defending Michael.

I am heart broken about the scale of the damage done to many who have ordered cells thru the "group buy."
I am also heart broken for Michael ....... BUT, HE is the one responsible for resolving the many problems and doesn't seem able to devote the time to it that is necessary. .... and I don't say that with any joy.
I don't think Michael had malicious intent, but has merely been over his head in being able to successfully resolve things. He seems to have too many irons in the fire and doesn't have anyone available who has the knowledge to help get this resolved. I do appreciate that his daughter tried to help a little with communications.
It has been a month since this started and every day now makes a satisfactory resolution less likely.
 

Pyrofx

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That sums it up better sir. I too have recommended many people to Mike.
I warned him what a shit show dealing with china is . I deal in fireworks. They send a few good containers. Then shit. They say , so sorry. We fix next shipment.
Rinse and repeat.

I really hoped that they saw him as a long term client and would treat him better. The issue is going to be that batterie6may have been good. The forwarder packing agent screwed the pooch.

We finally set up escrow accounts so that funds released after receiving inspections.
 

Gazoo

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I am heart broken about the scale of the damage done to many who have ordered cells thru the "group buy."
I am also heart broken for Michael
I feel the same way and I am struggling with it. Hard to believe a month has gone by since Brewman started this thread.

It has been a month since this started and every day now makes a satisfactory resolution less likely.
The fat lady hasn't sung her tune yet. But from what I have seen so far is the supplier(s) are not cooperating and it's strange there are now three suppliers involved. Unfortunately I agree with you.
 

MrM1

I'm Here, But I'm Not All There
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I paid with Paypal goods and services. @Michael B Caro "resolved" the issue thru PayPal ... But required I return send the batteries to him before Paypal will issue a refund. Problem is, and I need to know the answer to these questions before shipping ...

1. I only received 12 out of 16 batteries. If I return the 12 I received there was no mention via PP if I will be refunded for the full 16

2. The batteries I did receive where leaking and badly damaged
- The packing material that was used was destroyed in shipping
- Was woefully inadequate for shipping of the batteries
- Was not marked or labeled at all for the shipment of these batteries
- And is in no condition to be used again for another shipment
- How does @Michael B Caro expect me to return them?
- My understanding is ... It's against federal law for me to simply ship the batteries back to him the way that they were delivered to me, These batteries are a class 9 hazardous material, and legally shipping them is onerous, expensive, and difficult for a regular person. They were illegally and improperly shipped to me to begin with and with out the proper labeling, which led to the damage in the first place.

@Michael B Caro I would like to know from Michael how I am supposed to properly return these batteries to you. No instruction was given in your paypal response.
 
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MrM1

I'm Here, But I'm Not All There
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@Michael B Caro It appears I am not permitted to ship them to you unless I have a Hazmat Contract. It does not appear I am allowed to send damaged batteries to you as an individual.


Damaged, Defective, or Recalled Lithium Batteries

UPS provides ground service for compliant and fully regulated Damaged, Defective, or Recalled Lithium Batteries (DDR LB) within the contiguous United States when prepared under 49CFR §173.185(f) and tendered under our contracted hazmat service.


 
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