CATL 271Ah cell issues.

[RobertGreen]

...so you can see I'm not full of it like the children on this forum who can't read and write.

I didn't think I was ~that~ bad.

But seriously, thanks for the detailed post. I appreciate it.

 

[houseofancients]

Robert - I can't disclose the pricing agreement I have with currentconnected due to mutual NDAs, however, I can say that buying NEW batteries is a lot like buying a NEW car. If you walk into the dealership (website) and click on buy now / add to cart or whatever - then you're paying retail, or MAP (minimum advertised price). If you want 4 cells next week, that's the price you will pay. The more you buy, the deeper the discount. If you pay in advance and order from china, and wait - you can get substantial discounts. Retailers INVEST in inventory, and expect a return on that investment, but if you pay in advance, you effectively get in on a much larger group buy since the retailer is also buying cells for stocking their warehouse. If you order 300, and they are buying 700 anyways, both of you win by getting the 1000 cell price point. IDK how many cells this group bought from MBC, but if you ordered several hundred, you'd clearly be in the same bracket I am, and you'd have ONE shipping charge for a few pallets from China to LA by sea, plus a truck freight charge of a couple hundred to get it to the retailer's warehouse, then a small UPS fee to deliver to each person's address. I say small because currentconnected's UPS pricing is almost an order of magnitude lower than what you pay retail UPS due to the volumes they ship daily.

I get a large (free) shipment every month with my orders - last month was 88 ea. L173F230B cells [44 per pallet] of the CALB 230Ah along with 4 Victron inverters for the US market. I don't use their website to order - I call on the phone with my order and ask what's it going to cost me. I'll enclose photos of last month's shipment so you can see I'm not full of it like the children on this forum who can't read and write. Sorry for the copyright message, but I don't want anyone using my photos to prove they own 4 multiplus II inverters and/or 88 calb cells.

From what I can tell here, LOTS of people dove into this group buy "deal" which was drop shipped from china to everyone -- that's the MOST expensive way to land those (junk) cells in the USA. Because my 2 pallets of cells were packed in a container with other items, I only paid a fraction of the total container freight costs which worked out to a couple hundred dollars, but keep in mind I placed that particular order a few months ago and due to the logjam at the port of LA, freight rates have gone up. I just placed an order to be delivered in January 2022 and noticed the ocean freight had gone up considerably.

I evaluated multiple vendors' batteries before settling on CALB, which is clearly (to me) the best LiFePO4 made. If you want a cheaper alternative and still getting NEW production, I was given a sample cell made by Ganfeng (?) that spec'ed at 206 Ah and lab tested at 215 Ah. That's my backup cell if CALB is unavailable due to the electricity shortage in China. As a professional engineer, when I put my stamp on a project, it must be a durable solution, which is why I chose Victron after trying Magnum and Xantrex inverters. These systems are destined for new motorcoaches worth over $500,000. I chose currentconnected because they have a buyer in China who can get excellent pricing on LiFePO4 cells. Note - none of this goes through Alibaba; we do a direct wire transfer to the buyer after reviewing the spreadsheet showing the serial numbers and Ah capacity tested at the CALB quality assurance step in manufacturing for the cells I'm purchasing.

The scammers hang out on alibaba just waiting for orders they can fill with used cells. All they have to do is take a photo of what they sent you to prove they fulfilled their end of the deal. The alibaba protection team doesn't know what an amp-hour is, so if buyers complain it's supposed to be 270 but tests at 245, the protection staff won't have a clue what you are talking about. They will find in favor of the seller based on the photos and not refund any amount to the buyer.

Good luck with your orders.

like i suspected...

not bad for a child that can'y read or wrire

 

[p40whk]

Please, If you are not one of the people directly affected by this issue, stop posting in this thread. Create a new thread if you feel the need to tell everyone how you would have done it better. For those of us that come here for info on our issue, it's a huge pain to have to sift through all of the extraneous postings.

Thanks

 

[p40whk]

^^Dude, go somewhere else and troll!^^

 

[AER]

Is it possible to block spammers in here?

 

[Bob B]

I stand corrected, thank you. I'm assuming that those pre-dated the blue cased 200Ah which were made up until 2019-2020 when they migrated to the aluminum case. I had been told the blue case was ONLY 200Ah, but that was from a calb salesman. What year did you get those? It looks like an October 03, 2018 datecode, s/n #41 on that batch.

I think you are still failing to realize or acknowledge what this thread is about ..... If you want to continue having a discussion that has nothing to do with the thread, please start another thread and link to it.

Is it possible to block spammers in here?

Click the report button on the post and the reason for reporting it.

 

[schmism]

Is it possible to block spammers in here?

left click their name (on the left column) on a post of the person you want to block. in the options that pop up is "ignore"

 

[josephm15234]

@Michael B Caro has there been any update on the case with Alibaba to get all of our money back?

 

[jbreeden69]

@Michael B Caro , I've sen toyu several PM's with no response, please check and reply.

 

[norsou21]

Just found this thread I also received damaged cells from a group buy with Michael B Caro. I purchased 12, 8 were damaged, 3 had the posts bent and cracked, electrolyte leaked out. 4 were undamaged the 12 cost me $1500. I'm out $1000.

Mine were received on Sept 23rd. I messaged him, and he requested pictures, I sent them to him and the last I heard from him was the same day I received them. I have messaged him multiple times since then and have not heard anything. I've read that he's going through a large amount of emails. I'll attach the pictures of what I received if anyone is interested or keeping track of. I originally did not want to call him out in a public forum, but since I have not heard anything in over 5 weeks and found this thread, Thought I'd share it here. I know it's not Michael's fault about the damaged cells he is not the one that packaged and shipped them. But he's the one that has to get these issues resolved.

Group buys are nice until you run into problems. All the problems go to the one that did the group buy, you cannot complain to the original supplier since you do not know who it is. If the person that arranged the group buy decided to not respond to emails, you are really limited to what actions you can have.

 

[markcm]

As long as they are the CATL cells from the problem supplier, it does apply to your situation.

Your cells would be in the "never received" category......Which SHOULD be about the most clear cut, along with leaking cells, category there is.

I will only be sending one email from this new email address and responses should be limited to the questions in the email:

Number of cells ordered but not received. Including the tracking number for the box(s) not received and if they are supposedly still in transit or have been recalled by the shipper)
Number of cells received
Number of cells leaking
Number of cells with zero voltage (this is what they asked for but I would include cells with completely unacceptable voltages, even if above zero)
Number of cells badly damaged, misshapen
Number of cells with minor damage
Number of cells with no damage and usable.

Now that I am thinking more about it......it may be better for me to just call everyone on the list and get this info more quickly without having to worry about my email going to spam folder or otherwise being missed.

I think I will do that and then email those that I can not reach by phone for some reason.....

@Michael B Caro, this was the last I heard with respect to the 310ah CATL cells I ordered and were never delivered (you have all the UPS information for this order), from the batch of poor quality or damaged "debacle" CATL cells.

It has been about 2.5 weeks and an action item was stated, please follow up on this now with a response. I see multiple threads with respect to Lishen and CATL and now a google spreadsheet for CATL 271 which I have no idea if that applies to my CATL 310 or not; I cannot tell where I am supposed to be looking for information and if or where I should be sending information. There is no direction if you are using that spreadsheet or if we should be using it, and either way it doesn't currently load.

My case is cut and dry, the CATL 310ah from the CATL debacle batch never showed up, UPS shows it was not delivered. I have no idea if you need more information from me, if you need me to fill out a google form, if you have filed or received a refund for the cells that were never delivered to me; it seems reasonable that information could be provided.

Looking forward to your response and clarification on this.

 

[Mightymach]

@Michael B Caro, this was the last I heard with respect to the 310ah CATL cells I ordered and were never delivered (you have all the UPS information for this order), from the batch of poor quality or damaged "debacle" CATL cells.

It has been about 2.5 weeks and an action item was stated, please follow up on this now with a response. I see multiple threads with respect to Lishen and CATL and now a google spreadsheet for CATL 271 which I have no idea if that applies to my CATL 310 or not; I cannot tell where I am supposed to be looking for information and if or where I should be sending information. There is no direction if you are using that spreadsheet or if we should be using it, and either way it doesn't currently load.

My case is cut and dry, the CATL 310ah from the CATL debacle batch never showed up, UPS shows it was not delivered. I have no idea if you need more information from me, if you need me to fill out a google form, if you have filed or received a refund for the cells that were never delivered to me; it seems reasonable that information could be provided.

Looking forward to your response and clarification on this.

If you are still in the refund window with your credit card you need to file a dispute NOW.

This is likely your only chance at being made whole.


@Michael B Caro
Here's a copy/paste of questions I asked you over a week ago. Can you please address?

"[COLOR=rgb(24, 88, 134)]Michael B Caro[/COLOR]
What tineframe did alibaba give you for resolution?

I assume you have a rock solid agreement/contract with all of your suppliers spelling out exactly what you were ordering and what was expected/guaranteed?

You’re here, you’re keeping in contact better....don’t shy away from these details or keeping us in the know with what you’re doing.

Do you purchase the cella for your own brand Through alibaba?? Just curious if you did if it would make you look more like a heavy weight with alibaba.

Thanks"


Quite honestly, it's terrinle watching you continue to actively conduct business on other threads and not provide us with updates, or other news.



Reply
Report •••

 

[Michael B Caro]

@Michael B Caro, this was the last I heard with respect to the 310ah CATL cells I ordered and were never delivered (you have all the UPS information for this order), from the batch of poor quality or damaged "debacle" CATL cells.

It has been about 2.5 weeks and an action item was stated, please follow up on this now with a response. I see multiple threads with respect to Lishen and CATL and now a google spreadsheet for CATL 271 which I have no idea if that applies to my CATL 310 or not; I cannot tell where I am supposed to be looking for information and if or where I should be sending information. There is no direction if you are using that spreadsheet or if we should be using it, and either way it doesn't currently load.

My case is cut and dry, the CATL 310ah from the CATL debacle batch never showed up, UPS shows it was not delivered. I have no idea if you need more information from me, if you need me to fill out a google form, if you have filed or received a refund for the cells that were never delivered to me; it seems reasonable that information could be provided.

Looking forward to your response and clarification on this.

They, so far, are not willing to do anything on the cells that were not delivered until there is a resolution on the cells that arrived damaged.

Very few people actually filled out the google doc so that I have a clear count of how many cells fall into each category. So getting that count accurate is very time consuming and I have been messaging some people to get that info I need. That should be completed today (I have taken several days off from working to do this) and submitted.

I don't need anything from you Mark. I was able to track down your situation and have it recorded on my list already.

 

[Michael B Caro]

If you are still in the refund window with your credit card you need to file a dispute NOW.

This is likely your only chance at being made whole.


@Michael B Caro
Here's a copy/paste of questions I asked you over a week ago. Can you please address?

"[COLOR=rgb(24, 88, 134)]Michael B Caro[/COLOR]
What tineframe did alibaba give you for resolution?

I assume you have a rock solid agreement/contract with all of your suppliers spelling out exactly what you were ordering and what was expected/guaranteed?

You’re here, you’re keeping in contact better....don’t shy away from these details or keeping us in the know with what you’re doing.

Do you purchase the cella for your own brand Through alibaba?? Just curious if you did if it would make you look more like a heavy weight with alibaba.

Thanks"


Quite honestly, it's terrinle watching you continue to actively conduct business on other threads and not provide us with updates, or other news.



Reply
Report •••

The agreement I have with each supplier is all in the Alibaba discussion thread I have with them and Alibaba can access that. In this case the agent I was working with stated very clearly that if there were ANY problems with the cells when they arrived they would take care of the problem.

It is not a matter of shying away from the details but prioritizing what to get done when.

Yes, I purchase my cells and drop in ready batteries ALL through Alibaba. They obviously see me as a "heavyweight", as they have offered me some services that are only offered to high volume dealers. One of which was too late for these shipments, but consists of having someone from Alibaba visit the supplier and inspect the goods being shipped and their packaging to make sure everything is in order...and they do this free of charge for high volume dealers. IF this supplier decides to replace cells instead of doing refunds, I will have everything checked by someone from Alibaba and request pictures as well before they are shipped

My original request through Alibaba was a full refund on all cells Lithtech shipped, and it was accompanied by all of the pictures and facts I could attach before the system would not allow anything more to be added. I never expected that that refund request would be something they would do, but it at least got their attention and got the claim filed before the time ran out to do so. Lithtech denied the request but provided no proof of why they should not. I escalated that claim to a dispute and Lithtch has still not provided Alibaba with any evidence at all. Lithtech is still saying that they will propose solutions for each category as soon as they are done negotiating with their shipping forwarder (who supposedly packed many of these cells for them) and UPS/FedEx.

Alibaba has not given me a time frame for when Lithtech has to crap or get off the pot.

My continuing to do business is pretty much limited to selling what I have in stock (with a few exceptions) in order to get money to do refunds on the Lishen cells and a large reason those are not all done yet is the people involved in this that have managed to get full refunds when they should NOT have. I have always stated that if there were problems I would work with the supplier and do all I could to get them resolved. I AM doing that....countless hours involved. But I never said that I alone would take care of any problems. The supplier involved has the money, not me.

 

[Ryanw]

Hi Micheal, I posted this as a response to your PM, jist wanted to put it here as well to make sure you get it:

I only received 11 out of 16 cells. One whole box was never delivered due to damage in shipping per the tracking information. The three boxes I did receive were all open upon delivery, with one of those boxes missing a cell. All 11 of the cells received were damaged. All of them were dented, most of them were bloated, some had crooked terminals and were leaking. No bus bars were received. The packaging was very poor as evidenced by the result.

I sent pictures earlier of each cell with post-its attached detailing what is wrong with each cell. I can resend these pictures if desired. I'll look for your survey on the forums so I can fill it out as well.

 

[Ryanw]

Hi Micheal, I posted this as a response to your PM, jist wanted to put it here as well to make sure you get it:

I only received 11 out of 16 cells. One whole box was never delivered due to damage in shipping per the tracking information. The three boxes I did receive were all open upon delivery, with one of those boxes missing a cell. All 11 of the cells received were damaged. All of them were dented, most of them were bloated, some had crooked terminals and were leaking. No bus bars were received. The packaging was very poor as evidenced by the result.

I sent pictures earlier of each cell with post-its attached detailing what is wrong with each cell. I can resend these pictures if desired. I'll look for your survey on the forums so I can fill it out as well.

I filled out the google doc survey as well

 

[Mightymach]

The agreement I have with each supplier is all in the Alibaba discussion thread I have with them and Alibaba can access that. In this case the agent I was working with stated very clearly that if there were ANY problems with the cells when they arrived they would take care of the problem.

It is not a matter of shying away from the details but prioritizing what to get done when.

Yes, I purchase my cells and drop in ready batteries ALL through Alibaba. They obviously see me as a "heavyweight", as they have offered me some services that are only offered to high volume dealers. One of which was too late for these shipments, but consists of having someone from Alibaba visit the supplier and inspect the goods being shipped and their packaging to make sure everything is in order...and they do this free of charge for high volume dealers. IF this supplier decides to replace cells instead of doing refunds, I will have everything checked by someone from Alibaba and request pictures as well before they are shipped

My original request through Alibaba was a full refund on all cells Lithtech shipped, and it was accompanied by all of the pictures and facts I could attach before the system would not allow anything more to be added. I never expected that that refund request would be something they would do, but it at least got their attention and got the claim filed before the time ran out to do so. Lithtech denied the request but provided no proof of why they should not. I escalated that claim to a dispute and Lithtch has still not provided Alibaba with any evidence at all. Lithtech is still saying that they will propose solutions for each category as soon as they are done negotiating with their shipping forwarder (who supposedly packed many of these cells for them) and UPS/FedEx.

Alibaba has not given me a time frame for when Lithtech has to crap or get off the pot.

My continuing to do business is pretty much limited to selling what I have in stock (with a few exceptions) in order to get money to do refunds on the Lishen cells and a large reason those are not all done yet is the people involved in this that have managed to get full refunds when they should NOT have. I have always stated that if there were problems I would work with the supplier and do all I could to get them resolved. I AM doing that....countless hours involved. But I never said that I alone would take care of any problems. The supplier involved has the money, not me.

Thank you for the reply. Is there an alibaba discussion?? Please continue to keep us posted at least weekly, even if to say no news yet.

I assume you did, but I have to ask, did your claim/dispute/refund state everything that was wrong, including (but not limited to) scratched QR codes, wrong sized studs, missing bus bars, etc? Essentially, even if some cells miraculously came in without damage, they were still not as advertised.

For anyone not using these in a grid system, (RV, Boat) these are potentially life threatening. I know I would not want to be 50 miles off shore for these things to start a fire. If the supplier was not honest with the aforementioned little things, I find it would be very easy to not be honest on the big things. Preaching that to Alibaba may also appeal to their reason.

Thabks Michael.

 

[AER]

Yes I filed for a refund for almost all of the cells I ordered from them within the time period allowed, and yesterday elevated that request to a dispute.
There is an exception to the time period for anything that was never delivered, and so the rest of them can still be included and I am trying to get the Alibaba rep that is handling this to get back with me so that I can give them more evidence, and include the rest of the orders.
I plan on referring them to this thread in addition to all of the pictures and other evidence I submitted when doing the refund request. I could not send all of the evidence you guys have provided as there is a limit to how many attachments you can provide when filing.

How long is the claims process? I am assuming 30 days, is that right?

 

[derekisastro]

Just to clarify, from those not Michael (who appears to be quite busy) if I have been informed by Michael that my cells are potentially still in "transit/stuck on a boat off-shore of waiting to be unloaded", that I do NOT need to fill in the google sheet yet?

 

[Mightymach]

Just to clarify, from those not Michael (who appears to be quite busy) if I have been informed by Michael that my cells are potentially still in "transit/stuck on a boat off-shore of waiting to be unloaded", that I do NOT need to fill in the google sheet yet?

If your cells are still in transit and you’re under 6 months, you really should notify your credit card company and start the claim process.