CATL 271Ah cell issues.

[Sanwizard]

I'm not any kind of an expert, but this really seems hazardous to me. It's clear the cell terminals were poking through the outside of the box; if they had touched some metal they could have shorted out and caused a fire. On a second look, it appears that only one side of the terminals was poking through...
I briefly looked into trying to order a large quantity of cells via a contact in China and then offering them for resale domestically, but the shipping and hazmat rules are quite extreme. In effect, the way that 100% of cells we are all using appear to be shipped is by simply ignoring all the rules entirely. A buddy of mine who worked in a UPS hub told me that package handlers/sorters on the line occasionally had to handle boxes with mysterious liquids coming out of them, often times perfume or similar, sometimes nasty smelling chemicals. In theory you could not be compelled to handle leaky hazmats without proper safety practices, but in reality people who didn't keep up the crazy hectic work pace got fired.

While I understand that complying with the rules would make shipping these cells completely unviable, if sellers keep doing these poor shipping practices, it's a matter of time until they start a fire or something.

IV. Lithium ion and Lithium Metal Cells and Batteries Lithium ion and lithium metal cells and batteries are listed as Class 9 Miscellaneous hazardous materials in the U.S. and international hazardous materials (dangerous goods) regulations and are subject to specific packaging, marking, labeling, and shipping paper requirements. Cells and batteries also must meet certain testing requirements contained in the United Nations Manual of Tests and Criteria. For a copy of the current UN lithium battery tests, click here. The regulations that govern the transport of lithium ion and lithium metal cells and batteries are very complex. Therefore, prior to offering cells and batteries for transport, these regulations should be carefully reviewed. Companies that ship lithium batteries and fail to comply with the U.S. hazardous materials regulations can be assessed substantial civil penalties by the U.S. DOT. Shippers of lithium batteries should consult with hazardous materials regulatory experts if they do not fully understand the requirements of these regulations. Companies that ship lithium batteries or products containing them also should immediately determine whether employees preparing packages for transport are subject to the hazardous materials/dangerous goods training requirements.

 

[MrM1]

Looking closer at the boxes, these look like they were either in an accident, or fell off the back of a truck. Did the container fall? They were obviously re-taped by someone. Did they not want their insurance company notified? Something is way off. The fact that there is no warning sticker for lithium batteries, also means they did not pay a hazmat charge, and the shipment was illegal?

I do not believe they were in any kind of accident or shipping drop or conveyor mishap.

These were just terribly packaged. Very little foam on the inside, almost no tape and then boxes themselves were not rated for that much weight.

I picked up one box and it split down the corner.

 

[MrM1]

IV. Lithium ion and Lithium Metal Cells and Batteries Lithium ion and lithium metal cells and batteries are listed as Class 9 Miscellaneous hazardous materials in the U.S. and international hazardous materials (dangerous goods) regulations and are subject to specific packaging, marking, labeling, and shipping paper requirements. Cells and batteries also must meet certain testing requirements contained in the United Nations Manual of Tests and Criteria. For a copy of the current UN lithium battery tests, click here. The regulations that govern the transport of lithium ion and lithium metal cells and batteries are very complex. Therefore, prior to offering cells and batteries for transport, these regulations should be carefully reviewed. Companies that ship lithium batteries and fail to comply with the U.S. hazardous materials regulations can be assessed substantial civil penalties by the U.S. DOT. Shippers of lithium batteries should consult with hazardous materials regulatory experts if they do not fully understand the requirements of these regulations. Companies that ship lithium batteries or products containing them also should immediately determine whether employees preparing packages for transport are subject to the hazardous materials/dangerous goods training requirements.

All well and good...

But so why did UPS even pick them up in the port of LA, and move them across the USA? No labels, no markings, busted, falling out and in some cases boxes soaked with electrolyte?

 

[HRTKD]

All well and good...

But so why did UPS even pick them up in the port of LA, and move them across the USA? No labels, no markings, busted, falling out and in some cases boxes soaked with electrolyte?

UPS doesn't know what is inside the box.

 

[Sanwizard]

All well and good...

But so why did UPS even pick them up in the port of LA, and move them across the USA? No labels, no markings, busted, falling out and in some cases boxes soaked with electrolyte?

That is a great question.

 

[David S]

I'll simply add that my 280ah cells arrived in exactly the same condition. Only difference is that my QR codes are intact. Otherwise, same poor packaging and every cell damaged. Fortunately I don't seem to have any leaks, but the cells are unusable. That said, I still trust that Michael will make this right and hope that he and his are ok. Remember, last time I checked, there was a pandemic on. Two family members are currently fighting it, and it can take you down hard. Let's hope everyone's ok.

 

[MrM1]

UPS doesn't know what is inside the box.

Sure they know. U could see inside my boxes. U could see the batteries through the holes. And one of my boxes was undeliverable because it was so badly damaged. I got notice of this from UPS. Also the electrolyte was clearly visible. They knew.

I just feel sorry for the drives that had to handle the boxes.

 

[RobertGreen]

They knew.

I just feel sorry for the drives that had to handle the boxes.

Well, a lot of laymen wouldn't recognize a lifepo4 cell on sight; I certainly would not have before a few months ago.
The other thing is that there is an immense pressure on everyone from the drivers, the handlers at the hubs and so forth to Hustle as fast as they can to keep moving that endless stream of packages. In theory they could object or refuse to handle an irregular package, but that is making an issue that could possibly jeopardize their livelihood.

All I am saying is that whoever packed those cells so poorly is the one to blame.

When I looked into them, the regulations pertaining to shipping these large capacity lithium cells are quite restrictive... I'm not an expert, but I got the idea that it would probably cost more to ship them legally than these cells are worth. I wondered how all these ebay sellers , alibaba, and amazon were managing it, and now I know; they're just ignoring the restrictions.

 

[MrM1]

Yup. Not blaming ups. I was merely pointing out that the contents were obvious and the chemicals were dangerous. I'm surprised the drivers could ride in the same truck with the leaking cells.

Clearly the issue lies with the suppliers who were trying to get around the extra expense of properly packing labeling and shipping these batteries.

 

[740GLE]

What about customs and declaring them at the port? The shipper must not have properly identified them otherwise UPS wouldn’t have touch them. For all UPS knew they may have been handling book or something.

Either way shady shady things going on where I don’t see a good outcome for those impacted.

 

[MrM1]

@Brewman
@acacia987
@Umatillab24
@Rob Cameron
@glenn26
@p40whk
@tbuechner

8 purchasers including myself. This is the number of users here that I can find who are at present directly effected by the CATL 271 shipment issue (could be more but I cannot directly identify). I tried to send this as a direct message discussion to just us but the system would not allow that many in a private discussion.

So it's been about 6 days since these batteries began to arrive. Has anyone heard anything?

What is your next move?

 

[Umatillab24]

I kind of need to hear from Michael before I know what my options are (if any)….

 

[Sanwizard]

@Brewman
@acacia987
@Umatillab24
@Rob Cameron
@glenn26
@p40whk
@tbuechner

8 purchasers including myself. This is the number of users here that I can find who are at present directly effected by the CATL 271 shipment issue (could be more but I cannot directly identify). I tried to send this as a direct message discussion to just us but the system would not allow that many in a private discussion.

So it's been about 6 days since these batteries began to arrive. Has anyone heard anything?

What is your next move?

I cancelled my order with Michael via direct communication on this site, and through Paypal. If anyone is a close friend of Michael B Caro on this site, please contact his family and let us know how he is. I pray he is not ill.

 

[acacia987]

I kind of need to hear from Michael before I know what my options are (if any)….

Same

 

[wirock]

@Brewman
@acacia987
@Umatillab24
@Rob Cameron
@glenn26
@p40whk
@tbuechner

8 purchasers including myself. This is the number of users here that I can find who are at present directly effected by the CATL 271 shipment issue (could be more but I cannot directly identify). I tried to send this as a direct message discussion to just us but the system would not allow that many in a private discussion.

So it's been about 6 days since these batteries began to arrive. Has anyone heard anything?

What is your next move?

I'm might be in the same boat - I just haven't received mine yet. I have a UPS tracking number but no info on it. Starting to think Michael was swindled.

I was in the Lishen 272 order .. then when that took forever, I took his offer for the CATL 280s ... then that was switched to EVE 280s:

Yes, the CATL 280ah turned out go be Eve 280ah. The crates were all mislabeled.
The good news is that the Eve 280ah are perfect, and at the same price as the CATL 271ah.

The numbers were limited and so I had to make a quick decision. I told him to go ahead and ship the Eve 280ah to everyone that ordered the CATL 271ah cells and he should have tracking numbers very soon.

If anyone is dead set against the Eve in place of the CATL, I will resell the Eve, which will be easy as they are in real demand. I hope you are ok with my decision.

...

Yeah that was a typo on my part, should have said CATL 280ah being replaced by Eve 280ah.
These are really good Eve cells. They are testing from 277ah to 286ah

Well I'll see if I'm in the same boat as you all whenever my shipment might arrive. UPS has been saying since I received my tracking numbers:

"Check back tomorrow for an updated delivery date."

I sure hope this is resolved for you and all of us. To wait this long to see this damage. And if Michael has been misled, that is going to hurt.

 

[Bubba1]

I'm might be in the same boat - I just haven't received mine yet. I have a UPS tracking number but no info on it. Starting to think Michael was swindled.

I was in the Lishen 272 order .. then when that took forever, I took his offer for the CATL 280s ... then that was switched to EVE 280s:



Well I'll see if I'm in the same boat as you all whenever my shipment might arrive. UPS has been saying since I received my tracking numbers:



I sure hope this is resolved for you and all of us. To wait this long to see this damage. And if Michael has been misled, that is going to hurt.

I just received eve 230 cells and they were packed perfectly. I'll guess you will be fine.

 

[p40whk]

On the original Lishen thread, Duston Larson posted that he got ahold of Megan (not sure who that is other than a relative) but the gist of the conversation was that Michael was tied up with travel, appointments and family (not sick). I am hoping that he is pulling together some information to give us an informed response and that it comes sooner rather than later. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lishen-270ah-272ah-cell-group-buy.14668/post-321760

 

[MrM1]

I just received eve 230 cells and they were packed perfectly. I'll guess you will be fine.

Agreed. I think Eve Cells will be fine. No reason to suspect they came from the same supplier.

 

[MrM1]

On the original Lishen thread, Duston Larson posted that he got ahold of Megan (not sure who that is other than a relative) but the gist of the conversation was that Michael was tied up with travel, appointments and family (not sick). I am hoping that he is pulling together some information to give us an informed response and that it comes sooner rather than later. https://diysolarforum.com/threads/lishen-270ah-272ah-cell-group-buy.14668/post-321760

Thanks everyone, @p40whk 's link is refreshing and re-enforces every positive thing I have seen and read about Michael on the buy group forum (and yes I read every post up thru March 2020 before ordering and nearly every post since ordering).

I was not trying to "start something" in the form of a revolt, just trying to group all buyers together to see how we might proceed. As of this moment I am in the camp of wait and see as "Life Happens" and I feel confident Michael is on a planned absence and not running from the issue.

Please lets stay in touch as this begins to get resolved. Feel free to reach out to me privately if you do not want to post any resolutions or compensations you are receiving publicly.

 

[Rob Cameron]

@Brewman
@acacia987
@Umatillab24
@Rob Cameron
@glenn26
@p40whk
@tbuechner

8 purchasers including myself. This is the number of users here that I can find who are at present directly effected by the CATL 271 shipment issue (could be more but I cannot directly identify). I tried to send this as a direct message discussion to just us but the system would not allow that many in a private discussion.

So it's been about 6 days since these batteries began to arrive. Has anyone heard anything?

What is your next move?

not heard a peep yet. I would concur that Michael

Thanks everyone, @p40whk 's link is refreshing and re-enforces every positive thing I have seen and read about Michael on the buy group forum (and yes I read every post up thru March 2020 before ordering and nearly every post since ordering).

I was not trying to "start something" in the form of a revolt, just trying to group all buyers together to see how we might proceed. As of this moment I am in the camp of wait and see as "Life Happens" and I feel confident Michael is on a planned absence and not running from the issue.

Please lets stay in touch as this begins to get resolved. Feel free to reach out to me privately if you do not want to post any resolutions or compensations you are receiving publicly.

I concur with others that have had a good experience with Michael. I assume he is working on a plan and figuring out what to do before he does respond (although him just saying that would be helpful). He may be in the same "what the heck just happened" place we all are. Michael sure seems like a good guy and am optimistic that this will all get worked out.