Chargery BMS, DCC (Solid State Contactor) thread.

[Cal]

I understand. Any effort is appreciated. It's all for science.

Science is back in the US!

 

[BiduleOhm]

You can still do the Vdrop measurement at high current when you'll do your discharge test without cutting anything, just put one probe of your DMM (set on the VDC autorange or 2 VDC range) on each lug of the DCC (and note the current you're pulling at that time too so we can calculate the DCC Ron)

I'm curious too ?

 

[hammick]

Has anyone tried one of these SSRs with an Orion BMS? I'd love to be able to use one of these without a separate relay.

 

[cinergi]

Has anyone tried one of these SSRs with an Orion BMS? I'd love to be able to use one of these without a separate relay.

The SSR control voltage is 12v so unless your battery is 12v, you're out of luck since the Orion would be the negative connection and your battery would be the positive connection.

 

[BiduleOhm]

Zener + resistor will do the trick given the low consumption of the SSR

 

[Toopy]

I have a concern about the lug sizes on the DCC's, for example the Victron multiplus 48/5000 I intend to use the DCC/Chargery with, requires 1x set of 70mm cables up to 5m and 2x sets of 70mm for 5-10m.
Working on the recommended fuse sizes and current calculations, i.e 9000w surge/48v = 187A.
I could use a 200A DCC, however the cable size requirements (70mm lugs) will not fit on the 200A.

Are the lug sizes in the DCC info 50-8 in this case the maximum size lugs that fit?
I've seen many systems have trouble with low AC output under load due to poor DC wiring sizes.




EDIT: looking at the DCC manual and the cabac lug sizes, it looks like 70-8 lugs will fit the 300. Just

 

[fafrd]

When I initially read about Chargery BMS requiring an external contractor/relay, I dismissed it as overkill.

Today I fried a brand new Cheap Chinese 300A (100A charging) 8S BMS running a full discharge test of my 280Ah 8S LiFePO4 at 80A over 3.5 hours continuous.

The BMS worked fine for just over one hour and then a plume of stinky smoke came out of the power transistor area. The voltage drop at 80A of 0.45V is apparently high, so the BMS may have been defective, but still

So I’m now coming to realize that the idea of keeping the BMS smarts far from the BMS ‘switch’ where all the heat will be generated is a smart one and I’m following this thread to understand whether there is a Daly + External Relay solution that is now ready for prime-time @ 8S / 24V (ideally at up to 300A, but anything solid at 100A or higher has my interest).

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Steve_S]

I have a concern about the lug sizes on the DCC's, for example the Victron multiplus 48/5000 I intend to use the DCC/Chargery with, requires 1x set of 70mm cables up to 5m and 2x sets of 70mm for 5-10m.
Working on the recommended fuse sizes and current calculations, i.e 9000w surge/48v = 187A.
I could use a 200A DCC, however the cable size requirements (70mm lugs) will not fit on the 200A.

Are the lug sizes in the DCC info 50-8 in this case the maximum size lugs that fit?
I've seen many systems have trouble with low AC output under load due to poor DC wiring sizes.

EDIT: looking at the DCC manual and the cabac lug sizes, it looks like 70-8 lugs will fit the 300. Just

I am using 4 DCC-300A (version 1.0, first issue) with Royal Excelene 4/0 cable (83mm) with Selterm Tinned Lugs (5/16 hole).
In my case I had to modify the lugs because the first version of the DCC had shorter terminals.

TWO Methods to Install the DCC as well.
Option One: Install it on the NEG side, after the shunt. BATT to Shunt to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.
Option Two: Install it on the POS side, with the ISO Board installed between the BMS & DCC. Setup would be BATT to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.



I've pulled 250A @ 24V Draw through a single DCC without any issues, not even triggering the cooling fan. I've pushed just a bit over 150A Charge through a single DCC and again without any issue whatsoever.

 

[Toopy]

I am using 4 DCC-300A (version 1.0, first issue) with Royal Excelene 4/0 cable (83mm) with Selterm Tinned Lugs (5/16 hole).
In my case I had to modify the lugs because the first version of the DCC had shorter terminals.

TWO Methods to Install the DCC as well.
Option One: Install it on the NEG side, after the shunt. BATT to Shunt to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.
Option Two: Install it on the POS side, with the ISO Board installed between the BMS & DCC. Setup would be BATT to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.



I've pulled 250A @ 24V Draw through a single DCC without any issues, not even triggering the cooling fan. I've pushed just a bit over 150A Charge through a single DCC and again without any issue whatsoever.

Thanks, I figured I may have to take the top off the lugs or the side to prevent shorts.
Most of the time the unit will be run at around 20A, but there will be spikes up to and over 100A. Will see how it goes in the Australian summer, no doubt the Fan will be busy at times.

 

[Steve_S]

I prefer to have a "Margin" on all things, cannot be having a failure when it is -35C or +40C outside (that is normal for here).
because of my wires & lugs, I had to trim the Lugs a little for clearance BUT see below.

See this post for more info. (First Issue V1.0 though)

Chargery BMS, DCC (Solid State Contactor) thread.

Good Day folks, I am starting this thread related to the Chargery DCC, so the first post will be a basic "intro". See the following posts for more info. The DC contactor is designed specially to work with the CHARGERY BMS', the following are some features: Bi-directional connection, one...

diysolarforum.com

 

[tim0shel]

I just got a package from Jason which included the new External Power Adapters for the BMS', installed them this morning and the voltage readings and such have really settled down nicely. It is making a difference in the internal passive balancing as well as it reads values more sensibly. At present I am pushing 135A charge into the bank and eagle eyeing it.

I was also sent the ISO Board adapter to put between the DCC & BMS for (+) line Operation. I have not installed those at this time as I am wired to use the DCC on the NEG line per the original instructions as provided by Jason. I may test this when I assemble the next pack to go into place, as my LFP bank is production, so I can't / won't futz much with it. Ain't broke don't fix it. It also means cutting up more of my 4/0 cabling and crimping on more lugs and to be honest, I've had to spend Far More on wire than I ever intended to with all the changes.

@Cal, if you want, I can do some quicky tests with a DMM if you specify what exactly you'd like to see... step-by-step instructions. The current charge run on the bank will run another 3.5-4.0 hours yet.... I bottomed the whole bank to just tickling 0% SOC on all packs, prior to this charge run. Once this part is done (the LFP's), I'll be running a Deep Charge on my FLA Bank for 4 hours, so the day is accounted for.

BTW: Using BMS8T-300's with 1st issue 300A DCC's on the Negative Line after the Shunt. (Batt to Shunt to DCC to Common DC Busbar and out)
.

Steve,
I've not been so active on here lately just so busy and maybe missed somewhere you've mentioned on the modification to the first DCC's of the short terminal's. Hoping to get some 3D prints finished and start putting everything together on my project and wasn't sure about this. But seems I've missed out on few other options here that I might need to look into. Now we can use it on positive (advantage being?) also we have a board with diode to run into the external power side of the BMS. This would be all great to consider in the installation.

 

[Steve_S]

Steve,
I've not been so active on here lately just so busy and maybe missed somewhere you've mentioned on the modification to the first DCC's of the short terminal's. Hoping to get some 3D prints finished and start putting everything together on my project and wasn't sure about this. But seems I've missed out on few other options here that I might need to look into. Now we can use it on positive (advantage being?) also we have a board with diode to run into the external power side of the BMS. This would be all great to consider in the installation.

I'm still configured on the Negative Side for the DCC. Installed the ISO Board & the external power board interface and the BMS' are quite settled and certainly behaving better overall, much less "jumpy" as was way back when.

I'm not sure how Jason is dealing with that and the new "P" models. I'm assuming it's all incorporated internally. I'd hope so.

 

[tim0shel]

I prefer to have a "Margin" on all things, cannot be having a failure when it is -35C or +40C outside (that is normal for here).
because of my wires & lugs, I had to trim the Lugs a little for clearance BUT see below.

See this post for more info. (First Issue V1.0 though)

Chargery BMS, DCC (Solid State Contactor) thread.

Good Day folks, I am starting this thread related to the Chargery DCC, so the first post will be a basic "intro". See the following posts for more info. The DC contactor is designed specially to work with the CHARGERY BMS', the following are some features: Bi-directional connection, one...

diysolarforum.com

My apologies I did not go to the end of this post to see you have already answered to my last question.

 

[tim0shel]

I'm still configured on the Negative Side for the DCC. Installed the ISO Board & the external power board interface and the BMS' are quite settled and certainly behaving better overall, much less "jumpy" as was way back when.

I'm not sure how Jason is dealing with that and the new "P" models. I'm assuming it's all incorporated internally. I'd hope so.

For me I think I'm skipping the ISO board this is just something extra in the setup I dont need. Want to keep it simple and have hard time making room for it all as it is.

 

[Steve_S]

Technically, from what I could DECIPHER from the DCC doc, is that it is only "needed" when the DCC is on the POS line. I installed them anyways as it can't hurt and it's nice to see at a glance what the DCC sides are doing. The ISO board is only 1 square inch in size.

 

[fafrd]

I am using 4 DCC-300A (version 1.0, first issue) with Royal Excelene 4/0 cable (83mm) with Selterm Tinned Lugs (5/16 hole).
In my case I had to modify the lugs because the first version of the DCC had shorter terminals.

TWO Methods to Install the DCC as well.
Option One: Install it on the NEG side, after the shunt. BATT to Shunt to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.
Option Two: Install it on the POS side, with the ISO Board installed between the BMS & DCC. Setup would be BATT to DCC to Inverter/Load/Charger.



I've pulled 250A @ 24V Draw through a single DCC without any issues, not even triggering the cooling fan. I've pushed just a bit over 150A Charge through a single DCC and again without any issue whatsoever.

This is exactly the kind of thing I was hoping to see and is convincing me I should abandon the ‘simple’ all-in-one BMS architecture for the Chargery approach with separate DCC (building an 8S LiFePO4 for 2-4KW of off-grid solar).

The Chargery BMS offerings are a bit confusing and it may be that there is only a single ‘brain’ / monitor, but can you tell me which model you are using with your 300A DCC?

And without reading through all the gory details, it seems there are some hiccups associated with the lug design on these Gen1 DCCs - are these expected to be addressed in the Gen 2 design and is there any forecast for approximately when that could be released?

Thanks for helping out a newbie to this subject.

 

[Steve_S]

DCC lugs are already sorted.... I got first set out.
I am using a BMS8T which is for 8S and lower.
The New BMS * "P" and others are supposed to be out by end of month as far as I know.

 

[fafrd]

DCC lugs are already sorted.... I got first set out.
I am using a BMS8T which is for 8S and lower.
The New BMS * "P" and others are supposed to be out by end of month as far as I know.

Thanks, I’ll start looking into the BMS8T.

Is the *P* an update to the BMS or the DCC?

As far as the two options of ‘connected to ‘-‘ or ‘connected to +’ is there any advantage to connecting to ‘+’?

And finally, in the two options you outlined, there was no mention of fuse. I’ve been building a fuse onto the ‘+’ output of my battery and would be interested to understand what you do about fusing..,

 

[Steve_S]

One fuse per Battery on the + side obviously.
The BMS8P, BMS16P & BMS24P are the New BMS' coming out with Active Balancing and the "goodies" we've asked for.
DCC's have already been revised, but possibly more will be done for them too... I DUNNO
Myself, I have an MRBF Fuse on each battery pack, on the (+) terminal

From "About My System" pages:

The LFP BANK: (photo, before ISO Board & External Power feed to BMS' were installed.)

 

[fafrd]

One fuse per Battery on the + side obviously.
The BMS8P, BMS16P & BMS24P are the New BMS' coming out with Active Balancing and the "goodies" we've asked for.
DCC's have already been revised, but possibly more will be done for them too... I DUNNO
Myself, I have an MRBF Fuse on each battery pack, on the (+) terminal

From "About My System" pages:

The LFP BANK: (photo, before ISO Board & External Power feed to BMS' were installed.)

Very nice design and a good reference for what I am trying to put together (on a smaller scale).

I’ve been using ANL fuses but I know I saw a post from you somewhere on the advantages of MRBF fuses over ANL and I will track that down separately.

And I’ll do my homework slogging through this thread to understand what the new ‘goodies’ coming with the BMS24P are, since at this point, waiting a bit longer for something better is no biggie for me.