Cheap Chinese junk: I'll trow my 3 Daly controllers in the garbage bin. ANGRY!!!

[Batvette]

It’s not just this administration. It’s been all of them for a while. You can’t have a world government with a strong sovereign nation.

This administration just went for broke because Trump got elected and it scared the shit out of them.

They wanna make sure that never happens again.

Simple as that.

Every candidate has been from within their ranks for as long as I can remember.

They are all together and just make up stuff to keep us fighting among ourselves rather than them.

I think you will find this interesting. I bookmarked this 18 years ago during the 2004 election.

Bush, Kerry, and The Council on Foreign Relations

Later I found an acknowledgement on the CFRs own website about the authors larger work on them, calling.it "the most imortant piece on the CFR." so they were admitting its all true.

Its also funny that GW Bush has more royal blood than any president in history and close ties to the house of Windsor.

 

[chriscappuccio]

Heh, i click on the page 7 and wow, we go from chinese BMS to the Council on Foreign Relations. This is a cool forum.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I think you will find this interesting. I bookmarked this 18 years ago during the 2004 election.

Bush, Kerry, and The Council on Foreign Relations

Later I found an acknowledgement on the CFRs own website about the authors larger work on them, calling.it "the most imortant piece on the CFR." so they were admitting its all true.

Its also funny that GW Bush has more royal blood than any president in history and close ties to the house of Windsor.

Like I said they are all related all the way back.

Every candidate they have is all part of the same group.

Thats why it’s imperative to get someone outside of their ranks elected.

The media, the head of all the media companies all went to the same schools.

They all have the same agenda. Destroy America.

 

[Batvette]

Like I said they are all related all the way back.

Every candidate they have is all part of the same group.

Thats why it’s imperative to get someone outside of their ranks elected.

The media, the head of all the media companies all went to the same schools.

They all have the same agenda. Destroy America.

Thats probably an unavoidable by product of their real agenda which is getting rich and ensuring their ability to do so indefinitely by increasing their grip on power. Maybe the more left leaning ones would include self defeatism.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Thats probably an unavoidable by product of their real agenda which is getting rich and ensuring their ability to do so indefinitely by increasing their grip on power. Maybe the more left leaning ones would include self defeatism.

Yup.

 

[robby]

Thats probably an unavoidable by product of their real agenda which is getting rich and ensuring their ability to do so indefinitely by increasing their grip on power. Maybe the more left leaning ones would include self defeatism.

I would not point to the Left or Right. It's all about the Money and Power Period.
The biggest Con Job ever pulled on the American Public is the 401K plan. Basically placing everyone's retirement money onto a casino board where the corporations can use it to get even wealthier.

My Father retired just before that took off and he got a sweet steady pension check plus SS every month from Late 1970's all the way until he died in 2015 and my mother still collects 50% of that check every month plus her SS.
It's enough money for her to live without worrying about bills.

 

[GSXR1000]

Wow, you've obviously not worked with telecom equipment. I'll continue to follow the instructions of my first electronics instructor, treat anything above 30 volts as deadly. Even if he was an ex-nazi, he knows what he was talking about. High current is indeed dangerous, I have personally witnessed what negative 2 volts at 500 amps can do to a screwdriver (MRI machines can use some interesting voltages and currents).

because Telcom has ring voltage pushing 90v ... 48v won't shock you... electric fork lifts use 48v... nothing... now heat generation when shorted ... not good... ie 2v 500amp screwdriver... but neg 2 volt wouldn't shock you but can hurt you

 

[Frank in Thailand]

because Telcom has ring voltage pushing 90v ... 48v won't shock you... electric fork lifts use 48v... nothing... now heat generation when shorted ... not good... ie 2v 500amp screwdriver... but neg 2 volt wouldn't shock you but can hurt you

You have not yet replied to my invitation, to put your hands where your words (fingers) are...

It's great that your body doesn't get any harm from 48v.

Most other humans won't survive without sustained damage of they would hold on to 48v lifepo4, enough capacity to power a fork lift for a whole day.

I repeat my invitation:
Your welcome to show your skills.

If not, then please just accept that while your body might be able to withstand the thousands of watts, for most DYI here...
They can not.

Grabbing the positive and negative terminal with your bare hands, you are the conductor.

At full short 100Ah lifepo4 gave 1000A.

1016Ah, 51.2v, roughly 500.000w from your left to your right hand.
Or from right to left..

Sure.. a body isn't as conductive as copper.
It's lower.
Perhaps only 100kw.
Still a nasty burn

If my math is totally wrong, please correct me.

I don't know how many watts can flow via a human body before it will sustain damage.

Let's take the 2 minutes as in my original invitation as time frame..

I haven't tried, but I guess 50 watts is already nasty.
The rough math talks about 100kw..
2000x as much.

 

[Supervstech]

You have not yet replied to my invitation, to put your hands where your words (fingers) are...

It's great that your body doesn't get any harm from 48v.

Most other humans won't survive without sustained damage of they would hold on to 48v lifepo4, enough capacity to power a fork lift for a whole day.

I repeat my invitation:
Your welcome to show your skills.

If not, then please just accept that while your body might be able to withstand the thousands of watts, for most DYI here...
They can not.

Grabbing the positive and negative terminal with your bare hands, you are the conductor.

At full short 100Ah lifepo4 gave 1000A.

1016Ah, 51.2v, roughly 500.000w from your left to your right hand.
Or from right to left..

Sure.. a body isn't as conductive as copper.
It's lower.
Perhaps only 100kw.
Still a nasty burn

If my math is totally wrong, please correct me.

I don't know how many watts can flow via a human body before it will sustain damage.

Let's take the 2 minutes as in my original invitation as time frame..

I haven't tried, but I guess 50 watts is already nasty.
The rough math talks about 100kw..
2000x as much.

It isn’t like that.
It has to do with conductivity. Dry skin doesn’t pass dc voltage readily. Now, hot sweaty skin or bare feet immersed in water with cables in the water, while your hot sweaty hands and a different result will occur…

I will happily walk over to my 48V bank and touch the main terminals… no feeling will occur, no shock will happen… I will not do it with wet sweaty hands, and I will not do it standing in a pool of water…

 

[Frank in Thailand]

It isn’t like that.
It has to do with conductivity. Dry skin doesn’t pass dc voltage readily. Now, hot sweaty skin or bare feet immersed in water with cables in the water, while your hot sweaty hands and a different result will occur…

I will happily walk over to my 48V bank and touch the main terminals… no feeling will occur, no shock will happen… I will not do it with wet sweaty hands, and I will not do it standing in a pool of water…

With a temperature of 35-40c it's quite hard to have dry hands hahaha..

And of course difference in holding loosely or firm grip.

Many variables.

Main message:
Please be careful, depending on the circumstances 48v can be deadly.
Usually you just get shocked, perhaps some minor burns.

It absolutely doesn't qualify as safe.

Just like stored energy never is fully safe.
Doesn't matter if its in a battery or gasoline...
Under the wrong circumstances both are really dangerous and should be treated as this.

 

[MattiFin]

Sure.. a body isn't as conductive as copper.
It's lower.
Perhaps only 100kw.
Still a nasty burn

If my math is totally wrong, please correct me.

I don't know how many watts can flow via a human body before it will sustain damage.

Let's take the 2 minutes as in my original invitation as time frame..

I haven't tried, but I guess 50 watts is already nasty.
The rough math talks about 100kw..
2000x as much.

Your numbers are quite far off.
limb to limb resistance with very large contact patch and wet skin is ballpark 500 ohms, limiting the current to 50v/500ohm = 0.1A at 50v = 5 watts.
This would be already problematic current level causing your muscles to contract and hands grabbing on whatever they are holding.
But to get at this level at 50 volts would need arms soaked elbow-deep in salt water and wrapped with copper wire. Or skin peeled of or pierced with large screwdriver..

on the other hand 50v on dry, callused palms doesn't feel anything. 50 volts from my HP 6633A doesn't even tingle on my fingers if I grab 4mm banana posts between fingers. With sweaty fingers the same test is mildly unpleasant.

 

[GSXR1000]

You have not yet replied to my invitation, to put your hands where your words (fingers) are...

It's great that your body doesn't get any harm from 48v.

Most other humans won't survive without sustained damage of they would hold on to 48v lifepo4, enough capacity to power a fork lift for a whole day.

I repeat my invitation:
Your welcome to show your skills.

If not, then please just accept that while your body might be able to withstand the thousands of watts, for most DYI here...
They can not.

Grabbing the positive and negative terminal with your bare hands, you are the conductor.

At full short 100Ah lifepo4 gave 1000A.

1016Ah, 51.2v, roughly 500.000w from your left to your right hand.
Or from right to left..

Sure.. a body isn't as conductive as copper.
It's lower.
Perhaps only 100kw.
Still a nasty burn

If my math is totally wrong, please correct me.

I don't know how many watts can flow via a human body before it will sustain damage.

Let's take the 2 minutes as in my original invitation as time frame..

I haven't tried, but I guess 50 watts is already nasty.
The rough math talks about 100kw..
2000x as much.

every heard of ohms law? V/IR
SO.. I(amps)=V/R
Measured my hand to have to be 356,000 ohms (R)
52v/356,000 ohms= .000146 amps .146 ma
it takes 1 ma to feel it and 50-100 ma to kill you (across your hearts)

 

[Just John]

every heard of ohms law? V/IR
SO.. I(amps)=V/R
Measured my hand to have to be 356,000 ohms (R)
52v/356,000 ohms= .000146 amps .146 ma
it takes 1 ma to feel it and 50-100 ma to kill you (across your hearts)

The body has resistance to current flow. More than 99% of the body's resistance to electric current flow is at the skin. Resistance is measured in ohms. A calloused, dry hand may have more than 100,000 Ω because of a thick outer layer of dead cells in the stratum corneum. The internal body resistance is about 300 Ω, being related to the wet, relatively salty tissues beneath the skin. The skin resistance can be effectively bypassed if there is skin breakdown from high voltage, a cut, a deep abrasion, or immersion in water (Table (Table2).2).

1 mA	Barely perceptible
16 mA	Maximum current an average man can grasp and “let go”
20 mA	Paralysis of respiratory muscles
100 mA	Ventricular fibrillation threshold
2 A	Cardiac standstill and internal organ damage
15/20 A	Common fuse breaker opens circuit

Source:

Conduction of Electrical Current to and Through the Human Body: A Review

Objective: The objective of this article is to explain ways in which electric current is conducted to and through the human body and how this influences the nature of injuries. Methods: This multidisciplinary topic is explained by first reviewing electrical ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A factor that makes a large difference in the injury sustained in low-voltage shocks is the inability to let go. The amount of current in the arm that will cause the hand to involuntarily grip strongly is referred to as the let-go current.7 If a person's fingers are wrapped around a large cable or energized vacuum cleaner handle, for example, most adults will be able to let go with a current of less than 6 mA. At 22 mA, more than 99% of adults will not be able to let go.

If you are sweating, have a cut and are stupid enough to rely on random people from the internet to tell you something is safe, good on you.

Yes, you are likely safe, however people have a tendency to sue when they do stupid things. I'll continue to follow what my "electronics technology" teacher told me in 1976, treat anything above 30 volts as deadly.

Yes, he was German, yes he was an ex-Nazi. Yes, I've been zapped plenty of times by B+ voltages (300 to 450 volts) and I'm still alive, that doesn't mean it didn't knock me out of the stool I was sitting on. FYI, in 1976, "electronics technology" was vacuum tubes, and an "oh yeah, you'll see these things called transistors sometimes". Since my father was in computers before I was born, I was already well aware of transistors.

Plug the 300 ohms into your equation if you happen to have a cut and let us know the results. My math says if it goes from one hand to the other, you won't be able to let go, breath, and ventricular fibrillation may result.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I guess it greatly depends on your location.

When I lived in the North of Europe, 25c is a warm/hot day, above 30 is an heat wave.

Here in Thailand I can't recall any day below 25c.
Around 30c is considered cool, 35c normal and 40c a hot day.
Hot season has frequent days of 42, and I've seen/lived spikes of 47c.

We live out in the rice fields, anyone who knows anything about rice, know that they grow flooded / soaked soil.

Consequence, the humidity is high.

When we depart ?in the car) from the main road for the 8km concrete and dirt roads, we can feel (with open windows) the humidity rise. Like a warm moist blanket.

Shorts and flip-flops, shoes are too hot.
Even frequency no flip-flops as the feet to ground contact is a great help to keep cool (ish)

Wearing latex gloves while working on the battery helps. Downside, I need to change every 5 to 10 minutes as its getting filled with sweat.

Did I have sweaty hands in Northern Europe?
Nope, never. Perhaps a few exceptions, normally not.

If you think "Rambo" worn the headband for fun, needed.
I wear sweatbands all the time when any physical activity is needed.

Sitting, typing this message, my body feels dry.
The galaxy tablet (with screen protector) I usually need to wet my fingers a bit before the screen is responsive.

I would call that dry hands.

Yet...
Working with the batteries, accidentally touch with an elbow, or other bare skin.. and yes, hands, will give me a nasty bite!

Granted, my batteries aren't on "working hight".
And working low at the floor (where it is cooler), those flip-flops are slippery.

Remember, it's 35c with 70 to 80% humidity.

I'm leaking, as I'm working, as bad (or worse) right after spinning class (fitness/workout) in Europe.

Now Thai people stay a lot more dry. Even they like to shower 3 times a day, as well... it's hot, damn hot.

I don't usually wear shirts, they get soaked in an hour (or faster, depending on what is the activity)

Back in Europe, brisk walking for an hour, without breaking a sweat.
Calm walk fot an hour and here I can wring it out.

In my location it is absolutely NOT safe to touch or grab any part of the 48v (51.2v) system.

About a year back I got a nasty burn from a backbone busbar on my side.

Yes, my skin was wet, as I was sweating, yes, it wasn't an ideal working situation, hanging over 70cm of batteries to tighten something


On the left you can see the (now protected) busbar.


It took just a few seconds to tighten.
Bare feet, concrete slab, skin wet from sweat.
Sure I felt it, didn't hurt that much.
Not the sharp pain when you accidently touch positive and negative.

I was surprised about this burn.
Really was.

Now you can throw around all numbers that it is safe, this is real life.

H2O is non conductive.
Adding a bunch of minerals like salt and pollution from air (dust) you end up with quite a nice conductive liquid, that is covering your whole body.

This was half the battery, not even both terminals..

Real life, not numbers.

Again, if you are so darm sure about how safe it is, you ware welcome here to demonstrate.

I can absolutely agree that on a location with 15-20c, -50% humidity, safety shoes and better protective clothing, working in the same position would not have given the burned skin.

And perhaps that's where you live.
Not capable of thinking outside your environment.
Not to put you down, if I didn't live here, I would have a hard time myself understanding.

Imagine you are in the steam sauna, you know the one you can see just a few feet due the fog..

And imagine that you are working on your 48v batteries inside that room.

While that it a bit more harsh then here, it might give the insight that what might be "safe" in your environmental conditions, won't be safe in others.

I was as surprised as you probably will be,wearing latex gloves, a d holding your hand higher after 5 minutes, and water runs down your arm..

Welcome to the "tropical area" (I believe we aren't official even tropics)

 

[curiouscarbon]

thanks you for sharing your experience, so we can all learn from it.

insulate!

 

[Skypower]

Glad you’re still with us Frank!
I worked with my 48v system many dozens of times and never felt so much as a tickle. But Im going to take a lot more care now. My hands are unusually dry, so dry that static causes me to have difficulty with touch screens throughout the company where I work. I just get my hand over them and things happen. No one else there has this. Just don’t let me near a circuit board.