Cheap chinese horizontal wind turbine, an in depth exploration.

[Smokin]

It's not an Alternater yet because there is no Diode pack attached to it. It is a Motor/generator.
The spinning thing has magnets on it which makes up the thing called an Armature.
The coil thing is called a Stator.
The moving magnets cause current and voltage to flow in the coils. The faster the spinning the higher the voltage. The more torque the more current.
What you have here is a typical 3 phase permanet magnet motor. However this can also be used as a generator. Same thing as Hoverboard motors and ebike motors.
There insanely simple.
This thing is not a 6000 watt motor/generator. But it was cheap and they cool to play with. Instead of feeling ripped off, take the time and study it and you will be better for it. These things are toys. If you get board you can mount it to a bicycle or gocart, off the back and run it on an ebike controller and that would be cool. Mad Max chit rite there.
You could make it into a ceiling fan.

 

[Porch]

understood

a little yes, I am sure I will grasp it better as I get more experienced.


What would be the alternator? is that the rotating ring of magnets on the inside on my first photo? And if so would that make the coils on the outside that are static (do not rotate) the stator? Or would I call the alternator the combination of both those parts or is that better called the generator?

I'll be sure to keep you guys updated here on how this turbine behaves tomorrow when I continue with this project.

So the rotating part in the middle is called the "rotor" and the ring of wires on the outside is called the stator. This applies to an alternator, generator, or motor.

In this application, since it's making AC, or alternating current, it's called an alternator. Your car has the same thing under the hood.
A generator, is wired different, and makes DC power. This is called a generator.

They both "generate" power, but it's done in slightly different ways and both have pros and cons.

Generators make DC power. The spinning part in the middle (the rotor) does much of the work, so they have big brushes inside that arc and spark away and have a limited life span. The amount of power they made, could not be adjusted. They spin at one speed, they make one level of power. They used generators in cars up until the 1960s with the main issues with the brushes wearing out, and making very little power when the car is at idle.

Alternators make AC power. The rotor (spinning part) is only used for regulation with simple brushes inside last a long time. They require a rectifier and controller to convert the AC to DC. The amount of power they generate can be adjusted by the controller/regulator, so the regulator can tell the alternator to make more power when the car is at idle. The down side to the alternator is there is some electronics to make it work.

The above is a very basic overview. But all cars since the late 1960s used alternators.

Your wind generator is an alternator, but it they put permanent magnets in the rotor, so in affect, they removed the regulation part and turned it on full power all the time. The pros of this, as you need zero brushes in the alternator, so it can last a long time. Just 1 moving part.

But now your regulator/controller must do something with any extra power as it can't tell the alternator to "stop making power". This is why solar systems use dump loads to turn that extra power into heat.

 

[Smokin]

Yupp

 

[brandnewb]

enlightening information from everyone. thank you all so much.

I have confirmed the alternator is working with one possible issue on wires 2 and 3 combined.

when using a drill to rotate the alternator I get when rotating on full speed.
wires 1 and 2 90 volts
wires 1 and 3 91 volts
wires 2 and 3 84 volts (is this a problem?)

In all 3 configurations, while slowly increasing the rpm of the drill, the volts quite quickly rise to and above 48 volts. I am getting excited as the windy season is upon us here in my area. But I realize that because I do not have a tachometer I can not compare the rpm of the drill to the rpm our windows can produce so I am ready for disappointment

I will run the same experiment with actual wind rather than a drill today because now it is already quite windy.

in the meantime can I hook up my 3 phase (380 volt) electical heater (as I do not have a car tail light) to the wires and run an amps/watt test?
The eheater has a 15kw, a 10kw and a 5kw setting. Can anyone please advice on how to proceed in order to test how much watts / amps this alternator can generate?

 

[Smokin]

That not going to work. What you need to do is hook it up to a diode trio and then to the 48 volt battery and let the wind blow. Test it that way. Measure the amps volts. Log the results. You will need some kind of charge controller.

 

[brandnewb]

But a charge controller is rated in a combination of watts and volts is it not? If that is correct then how do I make sure to select a proper controller if I can't know the watts the turbine can produce?

EDIT; i'd like to go for maximum volts btw as my cable will be long. that is why I chose the 48volts version. if they would have had a 360+ volts version I would have chosen that if not absurdly expensive.

 

[Smokin]

This is what you need or something like it to hook the wind turbine to the battery. This would go near the battery. However the voltage is a bit high for Lifepo4.

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These controllers put on the brakes when they see the battery is charged. That's important. It's is neat to watch the wind turbine speed up and slow down as it regulates.

 

[brandnewb]

As I am not sure regarding how to proceed with batteries yet so i created a new thread. Once that one is settled we can continue regarding the controller option.

If anyone would like to take a stab;

scalability of LifePO4, an insane® battery pack.

I am not sure if I am going completely off the rails with what I would like to do and if at all possible or sane and what not. But essentially I would like a battery pack that I can run heavy load appliances with like 11kw (3 phase) EV charging and 3KW electric cooking and 3KW (single phase)...

diysolarforum.com

I will let you guys know the voltage readings later today once the turbine is spinning in the wind and with a long cable attached to it

 

[Porch]

But a charge controller is rated in a combination of watts and volts is it not? If that is correct then how do I make sure to select a proper controller if I can't know the watts the turbine can produce?

EDIT; i'd like to go for maximum volts btw as my cable will be long. that is why I chose the 48volts version. if they would have had a 360+ volts version I would have chosen that if not absurdly expensive.

You don't know how much power it makes. That would require complete disassembly and reverse engineering of the generator. Count wire windings, measure magnet force, lots of math.

Or you can connect it to a variable 3 phase load, spin it at the max wind speed it's rated for, and adjust the load for max current draw all while measuring with specially equipment. Your 3 phase load is rated for 380v, so it's not matched to the wind generator voltage, so all it will tell it is the window generator will make, something.

 

[brandnewb]

status update;

when the turbine is placed in the wind, and today it is quite windy yet not as much as it can be when shit..ehh wind hits the fan, I still get peaks of 90 votls with a 60 meter cable attached to the 3 wires. I used the 3 endpoints of the cable to do the same measuring as earlier.

Sure it fluctuated wildly as it was now wind driven and the turbine was placed in a sub optimal position.

I will install the turbine soon on the top of my roof and hopefully it will be windy like now. Otherwise I have to wait for the big winds to come.

Anyway, can I feed this output directly into my grid? since now I am not using it yet as I am still contemplating about a battery pack
(https://diysolarforum.com/threads/scalability-of-lifepo4-an-insane-battery-pack.30202/)
I might as well feed the grid.

lol the column does not even seems to be plumb

 

[brandnewb]

As for amps, connect a 12v car tail light (non LED) across any of the 2 wires and spin it

I am ready to purchase anything I can to get this show on the road. Could you please elaborate a bit more regarding this 12v car light? I mean I can get one nearby if that really helps me to say more about the capacity of this alternator.
For example why should not I get a 48 volts load or a 90 volts load as the peaks of my latest test suggest that the wires (in a 3x2.5mm2 installation cable) I am using seem to have great results still over a 60m length

 

[brandnewb]

Or you can connect it to a variable 3 phase load, spin it at the max wind speed it's rated for, and adjust the load for max current draw all while measuring with specially equipment. Your 3 phase load is rated for 380v, so it's not matched to the wind generator voltage, so all it will tell it is the window generator will make, something.

I am not sure I understand yet, but maximum respect for your input non the less

 

[Hedges]

In all 3 configurations, while slowly increasing the rpm of the drill, the volts quite quickly rise to and above 48 volts. I am getting excited as the windy season is upon us here in my area. But I realize that because I do not have a tachometer I can not compare the rpm of the drill to the rpm our windows can produce so I am ready for disappointment


in the meantime can I hook up my 3 phase (380 volt) electical heater (as I do not have a car tail light) to the wires and run an amps/watt test?
The eheater has a 15kw, a 10kw and a 5kw setting. Can anyone please advice on how to proceed in order to test how much watts / amps this alternator can generate?

Do you have a DMM with "Hz" reading? That will tell you RPM.

Not knowing how "380V" 3-phase is quoted, one side of a delta triangle or the spokes ... (e.g. I'm familiar with 120/208Y or 230/400Y or 480 Delta)

60V^2/380V^2 = 0.025 times as much power dissipated by your 3 phase heater.
0.025 x 10kW = 250W, a reasonable test but will likely not produce that much so voltage will be even lower.

 

[brandnewb]

What to do is short all 3 wires togather and let the wind blow. You will be generating 0 volts and the windmill will never speed up enough to get into trim.

WHen I shorted all 3 wires at first it grinded down to an actual halt. But then gust of wind came and it started rotating again. I got paniced beleiving it might burn something out. I was in time though to stop and remove the blades so now the turbine is neutered and sits there waiting for the moment I move it up to the roof. Then things, given conditions like today or better, will really start to go wild.

 

[Hedges]

For that shorted wire case, would be interesting to measure current, also temperature rise of the windings. It is a common "brake" technique, would be good if it works well enough without damage.

Do you have a clamp DC ammeter (I bought one from Harbor Freight). Do you have a thermocouple or IR thermometer?

 

[Porch]

The shoring the wires together and making it stop spinning is naturally how it turns on it's breaking. It "should" not harm it.

No, you can't wire it to AC and have it feed back the grid without a controller to support that. China makes everything now, so I would not be surprised if it exist, most of these things charge batteries, so the sand filled style controllers are more common.

Without having proper test equipment, I don't see a good way to test how many watts it can make. That said, units this physical size, generally are sold as making 200-500 watts. So I would look into a controller in that range.

I should also point out that units this small, are generally complete crap. They only produce their 200-500 rated watts when the wind is ripping, they are extremely noisy in high winds, fling the blades off, and burn out. I have 3 of them from good manufactures and they have all burned out at least once, broke the blades off several times, and turned into more hassle then they are worth.

 

[Smokin]

"WHen I shorted all 3 wires at first it grinded down to an actual halt. But then gust of wind came and it started rotating again. I got paniced beleiving it might burn something out. I was in time though to stop and remove the blades so now the turbine is neutered and sits there waiting for the moment I move it up to the roof. Then things, given conditions like today or better, will really start to go wild."

If you put it up with the controller battery not hooked up the it will freewheel and over rev and may flash over the coils. If you put it up the without the other conponents short the 3 wires and leave them that way until you have a complete kit. No harm will come to it because the baldes can't spin fast enough so the blades will be stalled all the time.

 

[brandnewb]

Do you have a DMM with "Hz" reading? That will tell you RPM

I do not believe I have.

But I did just order.. wait for it... yes, you've guessed it again

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Hopefully this will give me all I need to know in order to get the right controller.

Not knowing how "380V" 3-phase is quoted, one side of a delta triangle or the spokes ... (e.g. I'm familiar with 120/208Y or 230/400Y or 480 Delta)

I must apologize that I can not give any more details. My houshold has a 3 x 25 amp grid mains connection. This enables us to to hook up more heavy loads like my eheater or my EV car which can draw up to 11kw.. the eheater at 15kw runs for a while but then as soon as I look at the oven (+- 3kw) one or more phases get circuit broken.

I will admit that my breaker panel looks like the inner parts of a Chernobil reactor.. To clean it up will be another thread.




But ,true story, my electrical engineer I had on the job died before we could clean things up and I first want to understand what is going on there before I get things in order there. I mean I am so brand newb that I barely know the difference between amps and volts.

60V^2/380V^2 = 0.025 times as much power dissipated by your 3 phase heater.
0.025 x 10kW = 250W, a reasonable test but will likely not produce that much so voltage will be even lower.

I must admit you have lost me there I have no real grasp yet on how to interpret that.

Do you have a clamp DC ammeter (I bought one from Harbor Freight). Do you have a thermocouple or IR thermometer?

none of those yet, I am willing though to go the extra mile and get me those, if not busting my bank account, if it helps the community get data on real things.

I should also point out that units this small, are generally complete crap. They only produce their 200-500 rated watts when the wind is ripping, they are extremely noisy in high winds, fling the blades off, and burn out. I have 3 of them from good manufactures and they have all burned out at least once, broke the blades off several times, and turned into more hassle then they are worth.

Can you recommend something better than this chinese stuff?

fling the blades off, and burn out. I have 3 of them from good manufactures and they have all burned out at least once, broke the blades off several times,

this is a real concern to me, I can't have one of those blades misbehave and act like a projectile weapon. I am not even sure my insurance will cover that ;( Let alone the personal trauma involved for both the victims and extended family and myself and my familiy

 

[chrisski]

I bought on Kindle for $5 "A Wind Turbine Recipe Book." You may be able to get some testing and figure out what to purchase next. This is an excerpt that has some illustrations about three phase AC, the coils, and briefly what a rectifier does.




I would not just buy 6 diodes and connect it to a battery directly.

Really, if you keep the thread active until you find a solution, this could be something I might be interested in doing. I have an area where the winds will get to 15 - 35 knots for up to two hours a night, and I would like to get a few amp hours of energy off that, which I think is a reasonable goal.

 

[BMcL]

it spun crazy fast, without a load, in the current wind we are having. The blades even started making noise which my neighbors will probably complain about

Noise could kill your idea, especially if your neighbors are close by.