China customs bans shipping of lithium batteries?

[Ozark Tinkering]

Nah, just stating the evident.

Don't even follow your own advice.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

It kinda says to me you were making a living from taxpayer dollars when you were a paper shuffler for the section 8 apartment building. Hmmm...sucking from the gubment teat, eh?

That’s because it says to you what you want it to say.

In rural areas there’s multiple buildings, multiple tenants. There is no ‘section8’ in a slummy part of town cuz there could be only a few thousand residents total for the town. So people on subsidy live in the same 4-bed townhouse units alongside working folks and non-addicts. I did a job in a housing-short market.

Just because you want to criticize and/or pretend you’re an idiot but with airs superior morals doesn’t make you correct- or superior. I have a right and perhaps a moral obligation to be outraged that one family works and struggles while next door they eat for free, ‘work’ under the table for cash or drugs, and steal the tax money I’ll never see again.
We at least should give them options to choose a work program (we don’t have them unfortunately), stay at a county farm (those are gone, too) or make them sit at the town hall for 40 hours a week with a cell signal blocker before we give them ANYTHING.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

That’s because it says to you what you want it to say.

In rural areas there’s multiple buildings, multiple tenants. There is no ‘section8’ in a slummy part of town cuz there could be only a few thousand residents total for the town. So people on subsidy live in the same 4-bed townhouse units alongside working folks and non-addicts. I did a job in a housing-short market.

Just because you want to criticize and/or pretend you’re an idiot but with airs superior morals doesn’t make you correct- or superior. I have a right and perhaps a moral obligation to be outraged that one family works and struggles while next door they eat for free, ‘work’ under the table for cash or drugs, and steal the tax money I’ll never see again.
We at least should give them options to choose a work program (we don’t have them unfortunately), stay at a county farm (those are gone, too) or make them sit at the town hall for 40 hours a week with a cell signal blocker before we give them ANYTHING.

You should move to Mississppi. They didn't expand medicaid and treat their poor like shit. You would love it there.

 

[LeoThomson]

We at least should give them options to choose a work program (we don’t have them unfortunately), stay at a county farm (those are gone, too) or make them sit at the town hall for 40 hours a week with a cell signal blocker before we give them ANYTHING.

US unemployment dropped from 4.8% to currently at 3.5% clearly most unemployed people are willing to work. Blocking their cell signal means those looking for work are unreachable by potential employers.

So I ask you again, how about offering some workable solutions, that won't let people starve and provides people with health care.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

You should move to Mississppi. They didn't expand medicaid and treat their poor like shit. You would love it there.

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension and neuropathic development of the progression of logic. I’m not uncompassionate to the poor. I’m not compassionate to the self-serving self-aggrandizing freeloaders.

They can work, but we incentivize sustained idleness and long-term poverty instead of work. And most cheat the system. I have no sympathy for that, though I do have compassion that sees the social service trap ‘we’ burden people with.

Shallow attempts at insulting me aren’t going to change the facts- superiority complex people live for sustaining the dependent poor to bolster their fragile egos.

US unemployment dropped from 4.8% to currently at 3.5% clearly most unemployed people are willing to work. Blocking their cell signal means those looking for work are unreachable by potential employers.

So I ask you again, how about offering some workable solutions, that won't let people starve and provides people with health care.

Read the rest of my responses- I suggested two solutions: county farm, or work programs. In lieu of the desire to work they should be sequestered from self-enjoyment for at least 40 hours like the rest of us.

Those unworking, unproductive people skew the unemployment rate because they are most often not counted as unemployed.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension and neuropathic development of the progression of logic.

Or I could just do like you and break out Broughton's Buzz Phrase Generator to appear to operate on a higher intellectual plain than my philosophical opponent. But that would distract from the fact that my philosophical opponent would rather take a whip to the backs of those already living in lack, rather than collect taxes from those oligarchs that we the sons and daughters of the poor to die as fodder in their wars. Most usually those are the sons and daughters of our nation's poorest. But that's all they have to give, so we take.

 

[LeoThomson]

Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension and neuropathic development of the progression of logic. I’m not uncompassionate to the poor. I’m not compassionate to the self-serving self-aggrandizing freeloaders.

So you support increasing the minimum wage?

They can work, but we incentivize sustained idleness and long-term poverty instead of work. And most cheat the system. I have no sympathy for that, though I do have compassion that sees the social service trap ‘we’ burden people with.

It is going to get even worse when AI takes over. Just what will happen to the professional drivers when self driving cars/trucks come in. What will happen when factories get further automated. Grocery shops already have self checkouts, fast food places order from an app, buying from Amazon is more convenient and often cheaper. Most jobs can be replaced by AI/robots and they will when they increase profits for the owners.

Shallow attempts at insulting me aren’t going to change the facts- superiority complex people live for sustaining the dependent poor to bolster their fragile egos. Read the rest of my responses- I suggested two solutions: county farm, or work programs. In lieu of the desire to work they should be sequestered from self-enjoyment for at least 40 hours like the rest of us.

You are not thinking ahead, not looking at the future where we are heading. Forcing the unemployed work on farms (assuming there are things to do for them) means the farms will have way to many people there when unemployment is high, and way too few when unemployment is low like it is now. You'd have to provide transport to and from the farm and/or housing at the farm, day care for parents, this all is more expensive than giving the m the money for "free" On top of that, they are displacing farm workers. Just so you don't feel bad when they get something you believe they shouldn't be getting.

Those unworking, unproductive people skew the unemployment rate because they are most often not counted as unemployed.

If they are not counted as unemployed, do they receive unemployment benefits? If they don't enjoy benefits, should they?

And stop being so angry, unemployment is hardly an issue right now, employers are complaining it is too low and they have to raise wages.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Or I could just do like you and break out Broughton's Buzz Phrase Generator to appear to operate on a higher intellectual plain than my philosophical opponent.

I don’t even know what a buzz phrase generator is but apparently now I’m aware there’s such a thing if I’m to assume you are not making that up. Interesting admission, though.

But that would distract from the fact that my philosophical opponent would rather take a whip to the backs of those already living in lack, rather than collect taxes from those oligarchs that we the sons and daughters of the poor to die as fodder in their wars. Most usually those are the sons and daughters of our nation's poorest. But that's all they have to give, so we take.

That’s disgusting if that’s how you operate or think we’re supposed to. I’m not in your “we.” The government supports the corruption in business and prosperity of the oligarchs. I do not - willingly. That link highlights one aspect of the stealing of domestic economic mobility. It uses some big words and takes 20 minutes or so to get the picture but you’ll manage I’m sure.

So you support increasing the minimum wage?

No. I made it clear I support maximum success, increased opportunities; not pigeon-holing people into accepting low value and unsustainable below-living wage.
A high minimum wage suppresses youth, the inexperienced, and poorly educated people away from entry-level jobs that pay dividends and value a few years down the road. Never mind the self-worth benefits of working.

It is going to get even worse when AI takes over. Just what will happen to the professional drivers when self driving cars/trucks come in. What will happen when factories get further automated. Grocery shops already have self checkouts, fast food places order from an app, buying from Amazon is more convenient and often cheaper. Most jobs can be replaced by AI/robots and they will when they increase profits for the owners.

It is a definite problem when people settle for lower quality of life. But perhaps we can stop growing McMansion Culdesacs and start growing sustainable agriculture on this once productive soul we’re losing. Some sustainable farming requires more labor but less other expenses and domestic food is becoming an issue- again. (Ukraine, other things)

You are not thinking ahead, not looking at the future where we are heading. Forcing the unemployed work on farms (assuming there are things to do for them) means the farms will have way to many people there when unemployment is high, and way too few when unemployment is low like it is now.

I do see where we are headed but I also can see where we’ve been. In many aspects we need more of what’s been and much less of where we are headed. County farms feed needy families, and so much more than that. NOTHING is more expensive than than the roughly 1/3 of the fed budget dedicated to subsidizing poverty at an attractive comfort level. Manufacturing, packaging, nationalistic economic benefits, personal self-worth, hope for the future… I am looking ahead, I do see where we’re headed, and NOW is the time to act, the time to curb the generalized poverty and propping up of the oligarchy that’s in bed with the government. Maybe less poverty is the goal, but focusing on poverty has been primarily subsidizing poverty for at least 60 years at an increasing rate. Perhaps we should focus on broadening the middle class, the middle class has to come from somewhere and there’s a great deal of benefit to reward moving out of poverty rather than continue with the poverty subsidies that have harmed the American family immensely. Disproportionately effected on the black communities unfortunately.
We have a cultural problem, not a money problem, and what the below median families need is not to sustain them where they’re at but to create an economy that lifts them out of where they’re at. Not simple in a four-year view but fairly simple in a 35-year view.
Cuz where we’re headed- when we get there it ain’t too pretty in regards to humanity. Or even the environment.

You'd have to provide transport to and from the farm and/or housing at the farm, day care for parents, this all is more expensive than giving the m the money for "free"

We can afford a productive result, and the resultant maturing children will have a different perspective on the fairness of life. They’ll have a choice.

On top of that, they are displacing farm workers. Just so you don't feel bad when they get something you believe they shouldn't be getting.

If they displace illegal farm workers; GREAT! That’s one thing in my craw: the farmers hire the illegals because of availability of local workers is thin, or non-existent; and yet we have plenty more able-bodied, idle people in my county than illegal workers. I don’t fault the farmers?‍
Know about the Eisenhower interstate system? Or the work programs during the depression? Things that fed people during hard times and got stuff done. Productivity.

If they are not counted as unemployed, do they receive unemployment benefits? If they don't enjoy benefits, should they?

Welfare recipients are not on unemployment. Unemployment is an insurance program essentially. If you lose your job you have a buffer while you regroup. We need it because people don’t live below their means and save money, so they sacrifice- all of us sacrifice- a higher wage to make unemployment available to sustain people while they regroup. Because they don’t have a rainy day fund. While a lot of people do “ride” unemployment like a paid vacation, I’m not specifically opposed to it. But I wish we were a saving culture so that we could phase it down and pay people their full wage.

And stop being so angry, unemployment is hardly an issue right now, employers are complaining it is too low and they have to raise wages.

That’s convoluted as an explanation. The role of monetary policy by the federal reserve and the issue of available workforce but low to no applicants is a problem, as well as the consumer these days is buying on price, not durability/quality which affects domestically produced goods.

employers are complaining it is too low and they have to raise wages.

If we were running a truly free market economy then this isn’t an issue: Adam Smith’s principle of “the natural price of things” would prevail. This is an example of why we don’t need a higher minimum wage: the market would respond with wages commensurate with the numbers of people available who are willing to work for that price.

It’s simple economics, but it’s not simple to understand in a two-year or four-year view. Sure you can head in the right direction and show positive results relatively quickly, but like growing an apple tree you need a higher-level perspective and understanding to intrinsically see the result of the new trajectory.

Asking legitimate but myopic questions about how to sustain populations after AI makes a big dent in the workforce is like forgetting that the apple tree will take years of thoughtful care before it starts producing a generous harvest for many more years than it took to mature. We COULD have the sustainable infrastructure in place; or we could do nothing, allow the current trajectory to mature, let your oligarchs prosper, and have a 50-year crises on our hands in 5-10 years. Let AI happen, sure but solve the other problems before they’re problems.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Perhaps we should focus on broadening the middle class, the middle class has to come from somewhere

Finally we agree. The middle class built this nation up after WW2 and unions built the middle class. Support your local unions and organize! Union Made is American Made!

 

[Sanwizard]

Finally we agree. The middle class built this nation up after WW2 and unions built the middle class. Support your local unions and organize! Union Made is American Made!

Union leaders tend to lean left, and many are corrupt. Members receive few benefits for what they contribute. Union rules can also make work very inefficient. Public unions are bankrupting the country, and there is no need for them. ALL Unions should have 401K's, and no more pensions.

 

[LeoThomson]

No. I made it clear I support maximum success, increased opportunities; not pigeon-holing people into accepting low value and unsustainable below-living wage.
A high minimum wage suppresses youth, the inexperienced, and poorly educated people away from entry-level jobs that pay dividends and value a few years down the road. Never mind the self-worth benefits of working.

A minimum wage that is sufficient for a single earner to support a family of 4 is not high. If you want to know high high that should be is to ask yourself how much YOU need to support a family of 4.

It is a definite problem when people settle for lower quality of life. But perhaps we can stop growing McMansion Culdesacs and start growing sustainable agriculture on this once productive soul we’re losing. Some sustainable farming requires more labor but less other expenses and domestic food is becoming an issue- again. (Ukraine, other things)

It is cheaper to run a mega tractor with GPS to work the land than having some one drive it. Now I am all for sustainable farming, but that can not happen if the average consumer is forced to buy the cheapest products because wages don't allow it.

I do see where we are headed but I also can see where we’ve been. In many aspects we need more of what’s been and much less of where we are headed. County farms feed needy families, and so much more than that. NOTHING is more expensive than than the roughly 1/3 of the fed budget dedicated to subsidizing poverty at an attractive comfort level. Manufacturing, packaging, nationalistic economic benefits, personal self-worth, hope for the future… I am looking ahead, I do see where we’re headed, and NOW is the time to act, the time to curb the generalized poverty and propping up of the oligarchy that’s in bed with the government. Maybe less poverty is the goal, but focusing on poverty has been primarily subsidizing poverty for at least 60 years at an increasing rate. Perhaps we should focus on broadening the middle class, the middle class has to come from somewhere and there’s a great deal of benefit to reward moving out of poverty rather than continue with the poverty subsidies that have harmed the American family immensely. Disproportionately effected on the black communities unfortunately.
We have a cultural problem, not a money problem, and what the below median families need is not to sustain them where they’re at but to create an economy that lifts them out of where they’re at. Not simple in a four-year view but fairly simple in a 35-year view.
Cuz where we’re headed- when we get there it ain’t too pretty in regards to humanity. Or even the environment.

Economists are talking about a guaranteed minimum income, I believe one of your presidential candidates was running on that platform. It doesn't get much traction yet, but one economist did tell me it would solve most problems another one claimed it was the only workable solution. I have not looked into it in detail and I don't know where the money comes from, but it would solve the issue with other people getting the basic things you do not get for free and we'd have to work for the luxuries we want.

We can afford a productive result, and the resultant maturing children will have a different perspective on the fairness of life. They’ll have a choice.

In the end, work is going to be optional, I used to quit jobs I did not like or when I got bored, but I did like to work and I earned more then enough so I could afford to work part time and spend time with my hobbies. One of the things I would encourage is teaching kids to explore their interests.

If they displace illegal farm workers; GREAT! That’s one thing in my craw: the farmers hire the illegals because of availability of local workers is thin, or non-existent; and yet we have plenty more able-bodied, idle people in my county than illegal workers. I don’t fault the farmers?‍
Know about the Eisenhower interstate system? Or the work programs during the depression? Things that fed people during hard times and got stuff done. Productivity.

People don't want to do farm work because it is temporary work, tough and not enough pay. Right now farmers would have problems finding any one willing to do the work for the wages they offer and they can't offer more because they can't compete with incomes without subsidies and/or protectionism (which unions want, but we know it doesn't work in the long run)

Welfare recipients are not on unemployment. Unemployment is an insurance program essentially. If you lose your job you have a buffer while you regroup. We need it because people don’t live below their means and save money, so they sacrifice- all of us sacrifice- a higher wage to make unemployment available to sustain people while they regroup. Because they don’t have a rainy day fund. While a lot of people do “ride” unemployment like a paid vacation, I’m not specifically opposed to it. But I wish we were a saving culture so that we could phase it down and pay people their full wage.

Fair enough.

That’s convoluted as an explanation. The role of monetary policy by the federal reserve and the issue of available workforce but low to no applicants is a problem, as well as the consumer these days is buying on price, not durability/quality which affects domestically produced goods.

Because the average consumer has no way to test the products on the market. Even if they could, their wages are too low, so they buy the cheapest. Which are usually produced in countries where the wages are much lower.

If we were running a truly free market economy then this isn’t an issue: Adam Smith’s principle of “the natural price of things” would prevail. This is an example of why we don’t need a higher minimum wage: the market would respond with wages commensurate with the numbers of people available who are willing to work for that price.

A truly free market economy is great in theory, but we do not have a truly free market economy and we will never have one. Too many people will cheat and the one who is the most ruthless with the biggest private gang of thugs will "win".

It’s simple economics, but it’s not simple to understand in a two-year or four-year view. Sure you can head in the right direction and show positive results relatively quickly, but like growing an apple tree you need a higher-level perspective and understanding to intrinsically see the result of the new trajectory.

One thing I have learned about economics, it isn't simple. "Labour, like all other things which are purchased and sold, and which may be increased or diminished in quantity, has its natural and its market price. The natural price of labour is that price which is necessary to enable the labourers, one with another, to subsist and to perpetuate their race, without either increase or diminution."

On The Principles of Political Economy and Taxation, by David Ricardo, 1817

(I searched for your Adams quote and ironically that is the first link that came up)

Asking legitimate but myopic questions about how to sustain populations after AI makes a big dent in the workforce is like forgetting that the apple tree will take years of thoughtful care before it starts producing a generous harvest for many more years than it took to mature. We COULD have the sustainable infrastructure in place; or we could do nothing, allow the current trajectory to mature, let your oligarchs prosper, and have a 50-year crises on our hands in 5-10 years. Let AI happen, sure but solve the other problems before they’re problems.

There is no immediate problem, seriously 3.5% unemployment is not a problem. Unemployment benefits in the US amounted to 2 billion for August. A fraction of what fossil fuel gets.

Is it fair to say we agree that unemployment and disabilities are legitimate benefits, but that we do not want people who are able but unwilling to accept reasonable employment get them. And that we disagree on what constitutes "reasonable"?

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Members receive few benefits for what they contribute.

I had received back every penny I paid in union dues over 30 years, within 5 years of retirement. That doesn't include my 3 Defined Benefit Pensions and a death benefit, which are all running in the green under ERISA funding rules and further protected under the I.R.A.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

You can begin your education here...

The Electrical Worker Online

The monthly newspaper of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, representing 750,000 workers throughout the United States and Canada. Breaking news and analysis from the largest electrical workers union in North America.

www.ibew.org

 

[Sanwizard]

You can begin your education here...

The Electrical Worker Online

The monthly newspaper of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, representing 750,000 workers throughout the United States and Canada. Breaking news and analysis from the largest electrical workers union in North America.

www.ibew.org

I worked with the electrical workers union folks in data centers. They guys were great, but their rules were totally screwed up, and held us up. It took us three times as long with 3x the people for a job I could have done myself in a few min.
Those guys were paid very well for doing nothing, increasing costs and adding complexity while slowing work down to a crawl. It drove me nuts, so I usually did what needed to be done myself if nobody was around.
I am sure they are all sitting in the sun now collecting pensions and paid for health care. Postal workers in the US get a similar deal. Retire in 20 on full bennys. Thats why tax payers need to prop it up with billions, to pay all those pensions.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I worked with the electrical workers union folks in data centers. They guys were great, but their rules were totally screwed up, and held us up. It took us three times as long with 3x the people for a job I could have done myself in a few min.
Those guys were paid very well for doing nothing, increasing costs and adding complexity while slowing work down to a crawl. It drove me nuts, so I usually did what needed to be done myself if nobody was around.
I am sure they are all sitting in the sun now collecting pensions and paid for health care. Postal workers in the US get a similar deal. Retire in 20 on full bennys. Thats why tax payers need to prop it up with billions, to pay all those pensions.

2 posts back I started by saying you are a fucking idiot and then thought better of it and went back and edited the first sentence of my comment. It originally said;

You are a fucking idiot that will choke on your 401k. I had received back every penny I paid in union dues over 30 years, within 5 years of retirement. That doesn't include my 3 Defined Benefit Pensions and a death benefit, which are all running in the green under ERISA funding rules and further protected under the I.R.A.

 

[Sanwizard]

2 posts back I started by saying you are a fucking idiot and then thought better of it and went back and edited the first sentence of my comment. It originally said;

You are such a nice guy. I bet you always have a kind word for those you may disagree with, like the folks who have those "coexist" and peace signs on their cars. You know, the ones that value diversity of opinion, free speech, being a good neighbor, live and let live, to each his own, non violence....

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

You are such a nice guy. I bet you always have a kind word for those you may disagree with, like the folks who have those "coexist" and peace signs on their cars. You know, the ones that value diversity of opinion, free speech, being a good neighbor, live and let live, to each his own, non violence....

From time to time it may be necessary to rise to an occasion. This occasion arose from your igrnorant comment about lazy IBEW workers as they completely rewire large swaths of Florida for mostly republican income tax avoiders with our federal tax money. They are the real welfare cheats. As soon as the lights and air conditioners come back on they go back to their ratty union busting ways. You're a sad joke.

 

[Sanwizard]

From time to time it may be necessary to rise to an occasion. This occasion arose from your igrnorant comment about lazy IBEW workers as they completely rewire large swaths of Florida for mostly republican income tax avoiders with our federal tax money. They are the real welfare cheats. As soon as the lights and air conditioners come back on they go back to their ratty union busting ways. You're a sad joke.

Those republicans pay more in taxes than most folks make in a year. I never said IBEW workers were lazy. I said the union rules make their efforts more costly and in efficent. Why do you think most companies are moving their factories either overseas or to right to work states?
Start thinking like a business owner, not a "worker".

 

[Sanwizard]

Those republicans pay more in taxes than most folks make in a year. I never said IBEW workers were lazy. I said the union rules make their efforts more costly and in efficent. Why do you think most companies are moving their factories either overseas or to right to work states?
Start thinking like a business owner, not a "worker".

I recently fled from New York to a free state. One major reason was democrats taxing everyone out of the state.
My property tax on my house was $14000 per year. From my house, I could see one of my neighbors houses, a much larger one, up on a hill over looking the water. He also put his house on the market. I looked up the property tax on his house, which was over $100,000 per year. Just for his property tax. Those who keep saying the "rich" need to pay their fair share are just ignorant of the facts, and
must listen to devisive media outlets and politicians who make money by fostering hate, division, and envy.
Thats what Germany used to create resentment towards the "Jews".
Here, its "maga republican" terrorists and "white" people.
I find it interesting how the media has turned "make America great" into something evil. What's next? "I love you" will be hate speech?

 

[robby]

This thread slid off the rails pages ago. No time to read all 15 of them, so can someone just tell me if an actual ban went into place?