Chins BMS possibly the issue?

Cajunwolf

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... At this point I knew what was happening...

These were thermal breakers and one of the problems with thermal breakers is the intentionally create a current choke point designed to heat up a piece of spring steel... The spring steel heats up, The temper changes, a disconnect takes place the problem is is their intentionally making the connection worse in order to affect this temperature change

To make matters even worse the lugs really aren't appropriately sized for moving 300 amps or in your case 400 amps

So I figured it was time to do this right I pulled the breaker from service and doubled up on the 1/0 gauge wire, keep in mind 21/0 gauge lines is the equivalent of a 4/0 gauge line as they have the same cross section

So I ran 2, 1/0 gauge wires to the inverter negative and then on the positive side each one of them had a 200 amp ANL fuse

Now I can effectively hit the battery with 400 amps and since I already knew that I could operate on 200 amps even if one line went down there was enough there to operate best part is the ANL fuse has a significantly wider connection point than any breaker I've ever seen and they're cheaper and way more reliable

Needless to say I haven't had any issues... I have even ran the A/C for a small period of time
I think you have hit the nail on the head.

@ds0078 I mean, four batteries in parallel, each with its own 200amp BMS, should be able to handle that load. That's 800AH, dang. Four batteries at half draw putting out 100amps each comes to 400amps. I've run your load on some cheap 100AH batteries hastily duct-taped together with decrepit wiring hanging in the bilge and questionable fuses/breakers in a pinch. LoL, I had an old twin screw with two Detroits, 6-71s. Would you mind keeping this thread updated as to what you find? That or shoot me a PM.

I've been following these threads because I just purchased 3-12V 200AH Chins batteries and waiting on UPS. Why? I know three fellow RV'ers here in Houston who have had Chins since April or May and are as happy as a pig in a poke with them. I know a fellow in Galveston who has a 300amp in his sailboat, same. I read that some folks have had bad luck here and in other forums, but no matter the product, you will have some bad with the good; nothing is perfect. Also, I'm a retired old fart and on a limited budget. With that being said, I plan to hook them up in parallel for 600AH at 12VDC. I'm powering a 1988 28-foot class C RV on an E350 chassis; she's not big, and my most significant load will be the overhead A/C at 9-13 amps/, which will be intermittent. The rooftop is primarily for when plugged into shore power. I have a 6k BTU window unit in the back for running on batteries. It draws max 3-4 amps/400watts. I also have a small microwave but low power.

It looks like I might be the next Chins lab rat. :cool:

After reading all of these posts and others, I want to run the batteries to a heavy busbar and from there to the inverter via fuse/breaker. The only drawback I see is using three fuses, one for each battery. Costly but beats a choke point. Thoughts?

Being I have the batteries out of the way, I'm looking at inverters 3-3.5kw PSW, charge controllers, panels, and chargers, along with fuses and breakers. Any suggestion would be appreciated. It's not that I'm needing 3 to 3500 watts, but I have it if I do. The RV has a 30A 120 VAC (3600 watts) electrical system.
 

ds0078

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 28, 2021
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I have the chins 24v 200ah battery and it has a 200a bms in it but my inverter is less than 3kw, I believe what ed6269 said is your likely issue and moving to 24v would be a better approach for your inverter. My understanding is anything beyond 2kw at 12v is not good because of the high amps and necessary large wiring.

Does your invertrr support 24v input as well?
Inverter does not support 24v :(
 

ds0078

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So.... I installed a new quality 250 amp fuse today at the recommendations of smoothjoey, nothing else at this point. I ran the microwave for 5 minutes while leaving the refrigerator door open. This is the first time I have been able to do this. It appears as though everyone's suggestion about "crap" breakers appears to have been the problem. If I run into any further issues I will post. But so far removing the circuit breaker that I had listed in my drawing and replacing with an inline quality fuse seems to be working on the first test. I have a boat anchor windlass on a similar breaker giving me fits and popping under minimal load I know what is getting replaced next...

Lesson learned :(
 

ds0078

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Is there any way to receive notifications on replies, etc? I received a couple notifications after my initial post but haven't received one since. There are a lot of posts I didn't see until now when wanting to post my update. I would have loved to have read them and replied accordingly. I wasn't ignoring anyone and appreciate everyone's input!

Thank you
Donovan
 

ds0078

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Nov 28, 2021
Messages
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zero = 0 = 1/0 awg which is good for ~230 service amps.
Should run your microwave.


Do you have a wife or children?
I design systems for the least tech savvy person in the loop.

100 amps * 12 volts low cutoff = 1200 dc watts.
Our numbers are not in accordance.

Please replace that cheap and scary breaker with a quality fuse.
What size are the battery studs?

Sounds very much like a BMS disconnect.
Possible reasons are over-current and under-voltage.
Since 4 of those batteries in parallel are capable of 400 amps aggregate I suspect under-voltage.
High resistance plus high current causes voltage drop along the circuit.
I suspect bad joinery, and sub par components.
My prime suspect is that breaker.
Are the cables pure copper or are they copper clad aluminum?
Check for hot spots at the joints and voltage drop along the path under heavy load.

The idle draw on that beast is likely very high.

Quality thermal breakers in that form factor only go up to 250 amps.
The most trusted ones only go to 200.
Personally I draw the line at 150amps.
Please replace with a proper fuse.
If your studs are 3/8ths inch I suggest this.

If not I suggest this
A new proper fuse appeared to solve the problem at this point.

Thank you for your detailed reply to my post.

Lesson learned on cheap circuit breakers :(
 

ds0078

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Messages
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Bypass that one for testing purposes. I still don't get why people would install those automatic breakers.
Not being a smart ass, but some instances some of us are still learning the hard way. My lesson has now been learned on using cheap automatic breakers.... 🤷‍♂️

I wasn't trying to be cheap, I made an incorrect assumption the Chinese breaker rated at whatever amperage would be fine. Thanks to this wonderful site I am learning what works and what doesn't.
 

Cajunwolf

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Messages
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Location
Houston, the free state of Texas
Is there any way to receive notifications on replies, etc? I received a couple notifications after my initial post but haven't received one since. There are a lot of posts I didn't see until now when wanting to post my update. I would have loved to have read them and replied accordingly. I wasn't ignoring anyone and appreciate everyone's input!

Thank you
Donovan

Is there any way to receive notifications on replies, etc? I received a couple notifications after my initial post but haven't received one since. There are a lot of posts I didn't see until now when wanting to post my update. I would have loved to have read them and replied accordingly. I wasn't ignoring anyone and appreciate everyone's input!

Thank you
Donovan
Go to your profile and you can set this up.
 

740GLE

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Joined
Apr 30, 2021
Messages
967
Not being a smart ass, but some instances some of us are still learning the hard way. My lesson has now been learned on using cheap automatic breakers.... 🤷‍♂️

I wasn't trying to be cheap, I made an incorrect assumption the Chinese breaker rated at whatever amperage would be fine. Thanks to this wonderful site I am learning what works and what doesn't.

Where did you buy the breaker from?

Make sure you leave a bad review or possibly ask for a refund. Obviously it’s a defective breaker and you shouldn’t be out the money for cheap crap.

I believe there are quality breakers of similar style it’s just doing a search the lowest price is usually the first thing that pops up.
 

HARG Hunter

Thirsty for Off-Grid Knowledge
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206
Location
Iola, Wisconsin
Looking at buying 4 of the CHINS 12v 100ah batteries and going with either a 24v or 48v bank with them.
Mixed responses on whether I can go with 4 in series for 48v or not. If not how about 2s2p for 24v?

Just need to figure out which of these will work before I buy a 24v or 48v All-In-One Growatt or PowMr.

Any thoughts?
 

Cajunwolf

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Messages
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Location
Houston, the free state of Texas
Looking at buying 4 of the CHINS 12v 100ah batteries and going with either a 24v or 48v bank with them.
Mixed responses on whether I can go with 4 in series for 48v or not. If not how about 2s2p for 24v?

Just need to figure out which of these will work before I buy a 24v or 48v All-In-One Growatt or PowMr.

Any thoughts?
Yeah, you can series to 48-volts (4s), but what are you powering? I'm doing 4 Chins 12-volt 200ah batteries in a 2s2p for 400ah at 24-volts. Why? Because to run what I want to run on 12-volts via my inverter required maxing out the inverter with monster DC cables to handle the load between the inverter and batteries. By going to 24-volts, I cut the inverter load in half, which is fine for me because I'm in a 28-foot RV, and the max load is between 3000 to 3500 max, and this is only if it's a time of year and location to need airconditioning. Another thing, try to find AC to 24-volt lithium chargers; now, try and find one in 48-volts. I know the system you're looking at is all-in-one, but never think you're not going to need a separate charger. It's a human nature thing and 69 years of life experiences speaking. My Chins came with a decent 10 amp 12-volt lithium charger, and I found a nice 12/24-volt lithium (10A at 24-volt) charger for $50 on Amazon, but they are few and far between for a reasonable price. I can get an AC-powered charger at a higher amperage, which I'm going to need, but it will cost. I can see 48-volts if you're powering an off-grid house or cabin, even a big RV. If you have a long run, it will save money on battery cables, but my batteries and inverter are so close I can almost do it all in bus bars.
 

HARG Hunter

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Yeah, you can series to 48-volts (4s), but what are you powering? I'm doing 4 Chins 12-volt 200ah batteries in a 2s2p for 400ah at 24-volts. Why? Because to run what I want to run on 12-volts via my inverter required maxing out the inverter with monster DC cables to handle the load between the inverter and batteries. By going to 24-volts, I cut the inverter load in half, which is fine for me because I'm in a 28-foot RV, and the max load is between 3000 to 3500 max, and this is only if it's a time of year and location to need airconditioning. Another thing, try to find AC to 24-volt lithium chargers; now, try and find one in 48-volts. I know the system you're looking at is all-in-one, but never think you're not going to need a separate charger. It's a human nature thing and 69 years of life experiences speaking. My Chins came with a decent 10 amp 12-volt lithium charger, and I found a nice 12/24-volt lithium (10A at 24-volt) charger for $50 on Amazon, but they are few and far between for a reasonable price. I can get an AC-powered charger at a higher amperage, which I'm going to need, but it will cost. I can see 48-volts if you're powering an off-grid house or cabin, even a big RV. If you have a long run, it will save money on battery cables, but my batteries and inverter are so close I can almost do it all in bus bars.
I definitely want to go 48v if the 12v Chins can be set up in series to give me 48v.
My load will be in the 350-450w range. Surge maybe double, but that's it.

I would hook the Growatt up to AC for hybrid charging when the bank is low and the sun is hiding.
I will have 1840w of panels hooked up to it.
 

740GLE

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So only one string of 4 100ah-12v batteries at 48v? That solar array is quite hefty in size, it can support well more than 100ah 48v of storage.

Or are you thinking of adding another battery string as funds allow?
 

HARG Hunter

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Iola, Wisconsin
So only one string of 4 100ah-12v batteries at 48v? That solar array is quite hefty in size, it can support well more than 100ah 48v of storage.

Or are you thinking of adding another battery string as funds allow?
Would just rather overpanel than underpanel. The array will be within the Growatt's range, so not worried about burning that up.
I am in a slightly wooded area. 8 months out of the year, the sun has no problem getting over the trees, but from Nov-Feb there are a few windows of time when the sun is blocked. As long as the Growatt can handle the array, it's not a big deal for array overkill compared to the batteries is there?
Aside from that I felt if I had leftover panels, I can add them to my array at the cabin up North. I could do 3s3p at home, and upgrade from (3)100w panels in parallel at the cabin to (2) 230w panels in series.

As always, I'm open to input on this.
 

740GLE

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Sounds good

Do you have generator back up in case solar can’t cut it in the winter?
 

HARG Hunter

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Sounds good

Do you have generator back up in case solar can’t cut it in the winter?
Yes, but the system above isn't powering my entire house. Just a few essentials in case the power goes out.

If you are referring to our cabin, yes we do have a generator and use it often when we're not hunting and want to run an electric coffee maker, ceiling fans etc..
 

Cajunwolf

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Yes, but the system above isn't powering my entire house. Just a few essentials in case the power goes out.

If you are referring to our cabin, yes we do have a generator and use it often when we're not hunting and want to run an electric coffee maker, ceiling fans etc..
That's one thing I miss when off-grid in my little RV, my Bunn coffee maker. The problem is it keeps the tank of water precisely at the perfect brewing temperature so that when you pour cold tap water in, it displaces the hot for the perfect cup of coffee in 3-minutes. It's a dependable trusty friend. But that's 900 watt-hours just to maintain the temperature; it jumps up to 1100 when reheating for about 5 to 7 mins. Like you, I use a percolator or drip by boiling water on the gas stove. My window unit only uses 450 watts maxed out on high; it's rarely there, medium, and set to 74. I do have a sweet generator, duel fuel, but noisy no matter what kind of muffler they have.
 

HARG Hunter

Thirsty for Off-Grid Knowledge
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Messages
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That's one thing I miss when off-grid in my little RV, my Bunn coffee maker. The problem is it keeps the tank of water precisely at the perfect brewing temperature so that when you pour cold tap water in, it displaces the hot for the perfect cup of coffee in 3-minutes. It's a dependable trusty friend. But that's 900 watt-hours just to maintain the temperature; it jumps up to 1100 when reheating for about 5 to 7 mins. Like you, I use a percolator or drip by boiling water on the gas stove. My window unit only uses 450 watts maxed out on high; it's rarely there, medium, and set to 74. I do have a sweet generator, duel fuel, but noisy no matter what kind of muffler they have.
It's convenient in summertime when noise doesn't matter for sure.
Looking at the Ryobi Super Quiet generator right now. With it being quiet, plus we run it inside a utility shed, it really minimizes the noise. Still won't run it when hunting, but would be barely noticeable in the summer. Can't hear our current Predator 4000w gas generator when in the cabin at night.

I scoured the internet for the lowest wattage coffee maker because it kills me to wait 20-25 minutes for the percolator. The cheapest electric coffee maker from Walmart only uses 890 peak, takes 8-9 minutes to make a full pot, and the minute it's done I turn it off because we drink coffee so fast it won't cool down. If needed, we put the pot on the propane furnace to keep hot.
 

Sojourner1

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It's convenient in summertime when noise doesn't matter for sure.
Looking at the Ryobi Super Quiet generator right now. With it being quiet, plus we run it inside a utility shed, it really minimizes the noise. Still won't run it when hunting, but would be barely noticeable in the summer. Can't hear our current Predator 4000w gas generator when in the cabin at night.

I scoured the internet for the lowest wattage coffee maker because it kills me to wait 20-25 minutes for the percolator. The cheapest electric coffee maker from Walmart only uses 890 peak, takes 8-9 minutes to make a full pot, and the minute it's done I turn it off because we drink coffee so fast it won't cool down. If needed, we put the pot on the propane furnace to keep hot.
I use a Stanley thermos as a craft, it keeps the coffee hot to the last drop. ;)Screenshot_20220222-113200_Chrome.jpg
 
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