I don't think my Shelly EM is fast enough to capture inrush currents unfortuantely.
Choosing Equipment for Hybrid System
- Thread starter cods4
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mrzed001
Voice of reason
That sounds better, but still a lot for an simple MPPT.
If you want AC coupling then Victron, Sunny Island ... that's all I think (to give power to grid-tie in a blackout). Only Victron works with 48Vdc battery.
One unit hybrid inverters are the Voltronic Infinisolar (5kW costs us$1000) and SAJ H1-6K-S2 (working parallel with grid-tie but in a blackout no power to unprotected loads)
Other solution is a simple 5kW MPP Solar off-grid (all-in-one) inverter (us$700). That has one 450Voc MPPT (as the Victron).
The 8kW inverter (us$1000) has two 500Voc MPPT.
You can use them to charge the 48V battery (still cheaper than the Victron MPPT).
I checked the Victron Multiplus II page and did not found the as4777 certificate (Australian standard)
But it has VDE-AR-N 4105:2018 (Germany and some other EU countries) and GS98 (England) ... so it seems one of them is enough for you
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-ii#certificates
And there is one more (the cheapest) hybrid solution I did not mention: the grid-tie + off-grid version.
If you want to separate the grid-tie money-maker from the house power-maker.
Many time there is already a grid-tie system and you can not expand it (utility does not allow it)
Yeh I guess so.I checked the Victron Multiplus II page and did not found the as4777 certificate (Australian standard)
But it has VDE-AR-N 4105:2018 (Germany and some other EU countries) and GS98 (England) ... so it seems one of them is enough for you
https://www.victronenergy.com/inverters-chargers/multiplus-ii#certificates
It is listed here https://www.cleanenergycouncil.org.au/industry/products/inverters/approved-inverters
Which is the list of approved inverters that my electricity distributer references in their documentation. But I will try to get a hold of them and confirm before ordering. (fortunately I work very closely with them as part of my job, so just a matter of finding the right person)
Thanks for providing the links, I was having trouble finding the original supplier for those units on Alibaba. It seems to be flooded with dodgy looking resellers.
Given the relatively close pricing once shipping is included (within 50%) compared to Victron, I think I'll go with the locally supplied and well known Victron unit. However I am planning to have three solar strings on different sections of roof, so for the third string (Victron will handle two), I might try a smaller MPPsolar unit.
I am quite keen to keep it all together as I would like to be able to supply power from the batteries into the grid. This is so I can supply the grid when the spot price is high and maximise my income.
And also, because I work in the electricity supply industry, I just think it will be quite interesting to be able to use my system to support the grid, rather than making the grid less stable like most grid-tied solar does.
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mrzed001
Voice of reason
Your list is of approved inverters is waaaay bigger than mine here :D
You must have a very good and cheap Victron supplier there
MultiPlus II 5kW 48V us$2500
MPPT 250/85 (5kWp Solar, 250Voc) us$1030
How big strings do you plan to use ?
Will you try this 450Voc Victron MPPT ?
I never saw it, and can not even find it here on any price list ... so if you do I am interested of the results
The software side of Victron, that I do not know. With some inverters you can play with a RasPi, write own code, set them how to work automatically ...
Every battery makes the grid more stable
They do actually seem competitively priced here compared to those numbers.You must have a very good and cheap Victron supplier there
MultiPlus II 5kW 48V us$2500
MPPT 250/85 (5kWp Solar, 250Voc) us$1030
I was going to go for the non GX model, because like you said, you can use a raspberrypi to control them.
Multiplus-ii-48-5000-70-50-230v non GX - $1814usd
SmartSolar MPPT RS 450/100-Tr 7200kWp $1369usd
2 larger strings of 9-10 panels on the main North and East parts of my roof, and one smaller string of 4-6 panels on a north facing section of roof that's at a steeper angle.How big strings do you plan to use ?
Will you try this 450Voc Victron MPPT ?
I never saw it, and can not even find it here on any price list ... so if you do I am interested of the results
So it will hopefully work out perfect for one of those large 450Voc charge controllers, and one smaller one.
mrzed001
Voice of reason
That is really a good price. Can not find the 5kW GX under $2.500 here.
The MPPT has 2 strings, so if solar panel Voc under 40-42Voc then maybe 10 panel for 1 string. (calculate the Voc with the temperature deficient to -10 Celsius ... or the coldest ever was there
)Also they suggest only 422Voc for float 3,3V/cell. So you need to calculate first everything with the solar panel's datasheet.
Can produce 4kW / string. Can be overpaneled to 7,2kWp (paralel string maybe).
You seem to have a good understanding of the Multiplus capability so I hope you don’t mind if I ask my question here:
I’m looking at a parallel-connected architecture such as the one you posted above to support zero-export using a meter on the grid input. And from what you have posted in this thread, it seems like the Multiplus will support that capability. I have some question perhaps you can help with:
-what meters does the Multiplus support and what communication protocol is used between the meter and the multiplus (RS4985)?
-does the multiplus support any meters based on CT sensors or only in-line type meters?
My other question is to understand whether the Multiplus can also support zero-export by controlling battery charge current with AC-coupled solar.
If you look at this diagram for Huayu’s AC-battery charger: https://m.huayu-solar.com/Content/uploads/2021694206/PDF/AC-Coupled-Quick-Installation-Guide.pdf
They use two CT sensors, one to monitor grid import/export and a second to monitor AC-coupled solar generation.
This allows them to prioritize solar generation to offset load consumption first and then to use any excess solar generation to charge the battery second (so battery is charged by excess AC-coupled power only, not by importing grid energy).
Is the Multiplus able to do anything similar?
I’m pretty sure the Solark can support similar capability but I am looking for a smaller / lower cost AC-coupled battery inverter that can support zero-export and zero-import as long as there is sufficient AC-coupled solar generation available).
Found this: https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...tem/ESS_design_and_installation_manual-en.pdf
Sounds as though the Multiplus will support the variable-charging-for-zero-export capability I’m looking for:
‘When there is more PV power than is required to run loads, the excess PV energy is stored in the battery. That stored energy is then used to power the loads at times when there is a shortage of PV power.’
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I run my Multiplus 2 48v 3kw in grid tie ESS mode, using an ET112 power meter, Cerbo GX, RS 450/100tr charge controller, pylontech 3000c batteries and a 1kw airforce 1 turbine, so far its working great. I didnt use the AC outputs on the multiplus, I only use the AC Input, as the AC input is also the output in grid tie ESS mode
Are you on the US Grid or EU?
Was afraid you’d say something like that (I’ve longed for a Multiplus II solution for years, but I’m here in the US where we need 120V/240V split-phase).
So, I am just about ready to purchase all my inverter equipment.
As per the thread, I am wanting to go for an AC/DC tied hybrid system. The plan was to run a Fronius Primo 5.0, Victron Multiplus II 48/5000, and Victron MPPT RS 450/100.
These would give me 10kW worth of solar power (from 13kWp of panels) and would be able to draw up to 5kVA from my batteries when the sun is down.
However I have just realised that the Victron Multiplus II is no longer approved for use in Australia or New Zealand as of 18 December 2021. And from what I have read, they are working on getting approval to the new standard, but we will no longer be able to use the Multiplus to supply energy to the grid (which I would like to be able to do).
So I am now considering going for a different grid tied inverter/hybrid inverter that is approved against AS/NZS4777.2:2020.
Here is a brief list of options I have found.
Selectronic SP480-AU Too expensive!
Solis RHI-5K-48ES-5G
Goodwe GW5048D-ES Approved battery list is limited, but it should work with other batteries also. Goodwe seems to be the best of these chinese brands from what I have read.
Growatt SPH5000
Sungrow SH5K-30
I need to choose one that I can use with an additional solar inverter. The goal is to be able to share the 5kW grid tie limit between the hybrid inverter and the solar inverter.
Does anyone know if this is possible? I understand the two inverters will need to talk to each other (which the Fronius and Victron could do).
I'm flexible around which solar inverter I go for. I was planning to go for the Fronius as it works so well with Victron.
Edit: I have 20kWh of sealed lead acid batteries.
As per the thread, I am wanting to go for an AC/DC tied hybrid system. The plan was to run a Fronius Primo 5.0, Victron Multiplus II 48/5000, and Victron MPPT RS 450/100.
These would give me 10kW worth of solar power (from 13kWp of panels) and would be able to draw up to 5kVA from my batteries when the sun is down.
However I have just realised that the Victron Multiplus II is no longer approved for use in Australia or New Zealand as of 18 December 2021. And from what I have read, they are working on getting approval to the new standard, but we will no longer be able to use the Multiplus to supply energy to the grid (which I would like to be able to do).
So I am now considering going for a different grid tied inverter/hybrid inverter that is approved against AS/NZS4777.2:2020.
Here is a brief list of options I have found.
Selectronic SP480-AU Too expensive!
Solis RHI-5K-48ES-5G
Goodwe GW5048D-ES Approved battery list is limited, but it should work with other batteries also. Goodwe seems to be the best of these chinese brands from what I have read.
Growatt SPH5000
Sungrow SH5K-30
I need to choose one that I can use with an additional solar inverter. The goal is to be able to share the 5kW grid tie limit between the hybrid inverter and the solar inverter.
Does anyone know if this is possible? I understand the two inverters will need to talk to each other (which the Fronius and Victron could do).
I'm flexible around which solar inverter I go for. I was planning to go for the Fronius as it works so well with Victron.
Edit: I have 20kWh of sealed lead acid batteries.
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mrzed001
Voice of reason
Did you check the Deye inverters? (in US: Sol-Ark)
5-8 kW 1 phase like:
SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU | 5-8KW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | Low Voltage Battery Inverter Company, Supplier | Deye Inverter Technology
NingBo Deye Inverter Technology Co.,Ltd is China SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU | 5-8KW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | Low Voltage Battery inverter company and supplier。 The series, SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU, is a single-phase low voltage (48V)...
www.deyeinverter.com
No, they don't appear on the list. But they may still be in the process of getting certification. I will ask them.Did you check the Deye inverters? (in US: Sol-Ark)
5-8 kW 1 phase like:
SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU | 5-8KW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | Low Voltage Battery Inverter Company, Supplier | Deye Inverter Technology
NingBo Deye Inverter Technology Co.,Ltd is China SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU | 5-8KW | Single Phase | 2 MPPT | Hybrid Inverter | Low Voltage Battery inverter company and supplier。 The series, SUN-5/6K-SG01LP1-US SUN-7.6/8K-SG01LP1-US/EU, is a single-phase low voltage (48V)...
Their inverters look good.
mrzed001
Voice of reason
What happened to the Victron? Do you know why it is not approved there ?
Strange that it is not in the allowed inverter list here too.
I'm not sure sorry. If I find out from the Victron distributor, I will let you know.
mrzed001
Voice of reason
Thanks
You know EU, Australia, New Zealand ... the regulations are "almost" the same
Strange is that Victron was never in the allowed inverter list here ... never ever.
If you can let go of the AC coupling then a Voltronic Infinisolar (real) hybrid inverter is also a solution for you. (can not run the Fronius inverter in a blackout)
Here we can not have more than 2,5kW difference between phases, so we can not use the 5kW 1 phase hybrid any more.
Just the 10kW 3 phase hybrid.
I just dropped in to the discussion, as I'm dealing with the similar dilemma in the same country. I have enough space for 14 x 440W panels on my roof, and I planning to add some "frankenstined" Leaf batteries once the system is up and running.
I have checked the list what our line distributor, Orion published (and intend to maintain regularly) and the most attractive option for me the Sungrow SH5K-30. In my understanding it can be coupled with other sungrow unit later on for larger battery capacity, but that one will be controlled by the main unit. I try to keep my system simple as much as possible.
How are you progressing?
Mine is coming along. I decided to go with Deye hybrid inverters. I have ordered 3 of their 5kW models which will give me 6 MPPTs.
Basically everything is ready to go, batteries are installed, racking is installed, solar panels are ready. I am just waiting on the Deye inverters to come from China.
There was a long delay waiting for them to be approved under AS/NZS4777.2:2020 which is what my lines company requires (Powerco). But that finally came through a month or so ago. Now I'm waiting for them to make it out of Shanghai which could take some time.
You are lucky that Orion doesn't require compliance with the new revision of 4777.2 as that gives you a few more inverter options, including the Victrons.
mrzed001
Voice of reason
Just checked the Sungrow inverter tech sheet:
It can produce to the line 5kW BUT in backup mode it can only give 3kW.
Why? Donno. From its diagram it seems to be like other hybrid inverters.
Maybe they put in only a small DC/DC converter for the battery side.
And yes, just found it. Battery charge, discharge 65A/65A. That is 65A x 48V = 3kW
That is a joke
