Cinergi's 28 kWh / 4 kW Solar / 10 kW inverter RV build

CharlesK

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Don't laugh haha. I'm debating the new Quattro-II ... you can be an enabler if you buy my Quattros lol
What advantages come with the Quattro II over Quattro? What I am reading (probably not complete) is that Quattro II will comply with ESS and stringent European grid codes. Evidently Quattro does not meet those codes?
 

cinergi

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What advantages come with the Quattro II over Quattro? What I am reading (probably not complete) is that Quattro II will comply with ESS and stringent European grid codes. Evidently Quattro does not meet those codes?

I haven't done a lot of research yet but I believe it's more efficient, especially idle. And now that I've lived in my rig, I might try to get away with 1 unit and an autotransformer for even greater efficiency. I'm pretty inefficient right now. The smaller form factor (especially if I only have 1 of them) is appealing, too. And 1/2 the cabling. Basically just an excuse to "upgrade" lol
 

cinergi

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I ordered some of these (14 of the 4-hole's and 4 of the 2-hole's). https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003230279908.html
I don't know when i'll have them in hand (AliExpress says delivering to my parents in May, might have them reship to me depending on where I am) but I'll get those going and hope that all my resistances remain stable after that, further proving out the flexible bus bar requirement.
 

Capt Bill

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Interesting link to: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003230279908.html ... Looks worth a study .. My price check show $4.85 each x 14 = show about a $64 w free shipping price. ... Another option that also looks interesting is https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003515631469.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.6ba53c00dcAw5S&mp=1 ... and choosing the 72mm2 version for 90mm x 30mm x 5.5 thich shows up around $74 for 15 pieces w free shipping. And I see a $49 50mm2 option that could also work. Product description says
Rated current: 35 mm2: 140A 50 mm2: 200A 75 mm2: 300A ... and Tin Plated Copper Braided Strap. ... I go read about other option next.

My question besides fit: Which one can really handle 300 amps the best (seen over rated). ... I have not considered compression of my 280Ah Eve cells with the solid bus bars they come with, as IMO; I think that is a recipe for potential damage of battery posts. One of these flexible bus bar set sets might get to try on the compression. REQUEST to the LiFePO4 Suppliers: I wish flexible bus bars were supplied with the sale of these LiFePO4 cells (or at least an option), especially when LiFePO4 is accompanied by info recommending compression for more life cycles (which for me, I've just heard about in some DIYSolarForum threads).
 
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cinergi

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Yeah I went with the first item partly because they have a 4-post option (to accommodate a 2p configuration like mine) ... so one bus bar instead of 3 (one on cells 1 & 2, one on cells 3 & 4, and one on top between cells 2 & 3) ... which affected cost quite a bit, too. After my experience using wires to interconnect cells, I also wasn't keen on using braided straps.
They're 60 mm^2 which is roughly 1/0 cable or 230 amps (ABYC 75 degrees). As a bus bar without insulation, the rating is higher (charts show 300+ amps depending on temperature rise, placement, etc).
 

Fast1one

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That's specifically the feature that I asked Victron to implement -- measure the DC loads via a separate shunt. Right now, you can't get that page to use a separate shunt. You can, of course, separately monitor the second shunt on your own.

The furnace fans do use a lot of power, yes. I don't use that, though - I use the mini-split heat pump. I just need to take the time to measure individual circuits. I already figured out that my jacks, even in standby mode, use a low of power, so those have their own switch to completely cut them off. There are probably other similar ghost loads I can turn off.
Long time listener, first time caller. Didn’t Victron just add that functionality to Venus OS? See here:

The next improvement is the ability to use the SmartShunt or BMV-712 for DC metering.

Here are a few examples of what to use it for:

  • Monitor the output of an alternator.
  • Accurately measure and monitor the DC system on a boat, RV or coach.
  • Independently measure the DC systems on the Port hull, and Starboard hull of a catamaran.
  • Monitor a specific load or group of loads, such as a fridge.
When the Shunt is configured as “DC Energy Meter” (in VictronConnect), and the GX is enabled with “has DC system”, the GX does more than just recording and visualisation:

  1. It uses that measurement for display in the DC system power box on the overview, rather than the calculated, and as such often inaccurate, difference between Shunt and connected inverters and chargers.
  2. When using DVCC, the GX device will automatically increase the chargers to compensate for that load. An example: maximum charge current configured at 50 Amps, and DC system shunt reports a draw of 25 Amps. Then the chargers are set to charge with 50 + 25 = 75 Amps. A welcome improvement for applications with heavy DC loads, such as yachts and coaches.

I’m still working on my money pit. I’m considering adding a couple smart shunts to measure the DC panel and DC air conditioner I am experimenting with. Love all the updates. I definitely have solar envy!
 

cinergi

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Long time listener, first time caller. Didn’t Victron just add that functionality to Venus OS? See here:



I’m still working on my money pit. I’m considering adding a couple smart shunts to measure the DC panel and DC air conditioner I am experimenting with. Love all the updates. I definitely have solar envy!

Woah, I missed that piece in the release notes. Wow, they took my suggestion and implemented it! Damn, I'm gonna have to rewire my system LOL. Thanks!
 

Fast1one

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I spliced in my SmartShunt and configured it and wow, perfect! The "DC System" shows accurate DC values now. Awesome!
Appreciate the update! Makes it a little easier to stomach the extra cost for the smart shunts 😬
 

CharlesK

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I spliced in my SmartShunt and configured it and wow, perfect! The "DC System" shows accurate DC values now. Awesome!
Where did you find info (e.g., a wiring diagram?) for doing this? Is there a Victron document or other info that covers this? I am finalizing my design and this would be helpful. Thanks.
 

Lt.Dan

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Where did you find info (e.g., a wiring diagram?) for doing this? Is there a Victron document or other info that covers this? I am finalizing my design and this would be helpful. Thanks.
Put the smart shunt on the negative line between the battery and your load. Then plug in the USB cable to your Cerbo.
 

cinergi

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Yeah you basically wire it the same as you normally would but configure it differently (the Release notes quoted above tells you what to do). I will also have a video about it posted on my channel (already recorded the content). https://youtube.com/c/tisthedestiny
 

CharlesK

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Yeah you basically wire it the same as you normally would but configure it differently (the Release notes quoted above tells you what to do). I will also have a video about it posted on my channel (already recorded the content). https://youtube.com/c/tisthedestiny
@cinergi Thanks. The Release notes was the missing piece of the puzzle for me. Yes, it was mentioned above by @Fast1one. When you mentioned "spliced in my SmartShunt" I thought there was something else I needed to do. Using Victron Connect, with their update, is new.

@Lt.Dan Thanks. I had the physical connection figured out already. I just did not know how to see the info with the Cerbo regarding accurate DC usage. @cinergi had stated that the DC Load Usage Info was inaccurate in the past. The Victron Release notes confirmed what @cinergi said and now have released more accurate reporting with their Venus OS v2.80 update.
 

cinergi

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Ouch. On a separate matter, given that you published a lot of data on your battery testing suggesting that they fell a bit short of Grade A, how are they holding up?

@sunshine_eggo (moving conversation here)
Great! I haven't done a capacity test but I've had no problems drawing down to 30% SoC. IR numbers remain great. The only thing I need to do is replace the busbars with flexible ones (https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...w-inverter-rv-build.13786/page-35#post-457384).
 

cinergi

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bus bars received. They look a little rough. 2 have surface issues which will cause uneven contact which I think I can fix. Plenty flexible. I’d just read somewhere else here that these may not actually be copper. I’ll do some heavy load testing and measure voltage drop if I can.





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willo

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Apr 8, 2020
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Hmm, too bad they aren't nickel plated. (don't appear to be in the photos)
 

Luthj

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Looks like nickel plated copper to my eye. I believe the base material is nickel plated copper which is stamped to shape, then they are stacked, and the heat shrink is applied. So the edges will be bare copper.

Given how flexible they are, hopefully surface imperfections will flatten out with pressure. You could also use a press/vise/hammer/anvil to flatten them out.

It may be possible to take the heat shrink off, and swap the top two/three layers to find a smoother one?
 
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