Clawing back money for miss-sold "420ah" cells

Q-Dog

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Joined
Dec 22, 2020
Messages
640
Your original thread about these cells, referenced in your first post in this thread made it pretty clear no one believed the claims.

Then there are your own words.
Just to satisfy our curiosity we ordered a set of 4 cells to test.
TBH not expecting them to be anything close to their stated capacity.
If they're a scam we'll attempt to get our money back - hoping by paying by CC that will be possible.

... we'll let you know the results of our testing
 

Texas-Mark

Solar Addict
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
495
240AH became 420AH, an obvious typo, because to believe otherwise at that price/cell is wishful thinking. It was too good to be true so deal with the reality of the situation and move forward.
Wow, I can't believe people are defending what was obviously a deceptive scam. I guess all of the people in the group buy thread should also just accept that "It was too good to be true so deal with the reality of the situation and move forward."
 

noenegdod

Solar Addict
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Messages
630
Our account was credited in full, but we had to ship the cells back at our expense. The direct monetary cost to us for this "experiment" was around £100. I'd not include time wasted because it was "educational" and interesting.
We've found that the banks (credit card companies) want to know if you've shipped the product back before they credit your account.
Has anyone been given a refund without shipping the goods back?
I had work done to the truck I am building. I had a body shop modify my doors/fenders to clear 40" tires. They did a hatchet job and it started rusting after 3 months. I contacted visa and we went through the dispute process and they returned the full price of the job. As a side note I am also going through the small claims process to recover the cost of buying new doors and extra work to re and re the new doors.
 

sunshine

Solar Addict
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
453
Wow, I can't believe people are defending what was obviously a deceptive scam.
I give some points to the seller for getting away with it....the other 9 buyers anyway.
Specially when the seller goes to the effort and corrects the capacity settings of the photos in the latter offerings. Even if the '4' in the 420 is slightly offset on the ones that are easily visible. I am sure the 240...or is it 260? on the other photos must be a typo!
 

RV10flyer

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 8, 2021
Messages
111
Except that the OP (that would be me) specifically asked the seller if there was a mistake. The seller made it very clear that ALL the cells tested out at 420ah. We asked for test results, we were assured that they would all be 420ah.
Other people have experienced the same.

How on earth can you make the judgement that I was after free cells? Your comment is totally unacceptable.
That seems to be common on here. You and I both know the truth. I’ve had two different people question my Grade B and G cell testing, knowing I had also tested 128 cells from our two Grade A suppliers on here. It wasn’t like I didn’t have other cells to compare the bad ones to and three different load testers all giving within 1 aH capacity difference.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
Who makes 420ah cells...nobody. If you used a cc just call them (cc co.) and they'll pull the money right out of the sellers account (and likely credit you) until resolved. Obviously a TYPO on the rating.
It is NOT a typo. The cells do not have a QR code showing manufacture and serial number.
Who makes 420ah cells...nobody. If you used a cc just call them (cc co.) and they'll pull the money right out of the sellers account (and likely credit you) until resolved. Obviously a TYPO on the rating.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20211111_174201.jpg
    IMG_20211111_174201.jpg
    684.6 KB · Views: 10

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
Wow, I can't believe people are defending what was obviously a deceptive scam. I guess all of the people in the group buy thread should also just accept that "It was too good to be true so deal with the reality of the situation and move forward."
NO, this is an obvious scam. I have 20 cells to prove it. I also have 5.5 digit DVM's (HP3468a) to verify calibration of test equipment.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
70
It is NOT a typo. The cells do not have a QR code showing manufacture and serial number.
NO, this is an obvious scam. I have 20 cells to prove it. I also have 5.5 digit DVM's (HP3468a) to verify calibration of test equipment.

NO, this is an obvious scam. I have 20 cells to prove it. I also have 5.5 digit DVM's (HP3468a) to verify calibration of test equipment.
I just can't believe anyone would order a cell exactly the same dimensions as a 240ah and believe it was 420ah when nothing close to that even exists. Are they still not having any luck getting a refund or did they also pay a price also surprisingly commensurate with a 240ah cell and still not figure out what they were looking at?
 

Short_Shot

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
1,811
I just can't believe anyone would order a cell exactly the same dimensions as a 240ah and believe it was 420ah when nothing close to that even exists. Are they still not having any luck getting a refund or did they also pay a price also surprisingly commensurate with a 240ah cell and still not figure out what they were looking at?
You should believe it, since most people don't know squat about energy density and volume of cells.

They just read the big number and buy it.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
I just can't believe anyone would order a cell exactly the same dimensions as a 240ah and believe it was 420ah when nothing close to that even exists. Are they still not having any luck getting a refund or did they also pay a price also surprisingly commensurate with a 240ah cell and still not figure out what they were looking at?
When I ordered the 420Ah cells, I was expecting a larger cell than the 280Ah reference. I also paid 3x the price of the 240Ah cell by the same seller. It seemed plausible at the time. I later calculated that with current technology, 420Ah/5.1Kg cell is not possible. If it was,
the EV industry would of bought all available supply. I bought my 32 Lishen 272Ah cells in Dec 2020 for $69 apiece + shipping. They
measured 280Ah capacity.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
I give some points to the seller for getting away with it....the other 9 buyers anyway.
Specially when the seller goes to the effort and corrects the capacity settings of the photos in the latter offerings. Even if the '4' in the 420 is slightly offset on the ones that are easily visible. I am sure the 240...or is it 260? on the other photos must be a typo!
I think the photos on the sellers page were "obscured" with intentions to fool you into your thinking. There is absolutely NO ambiguity
on the order and the label on the cell. It says 420Ah.... I included a picture of the cell in another post.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
70
You should believe it, since most people don't know squat about energy density and volume of cells.

They just read the big number and buy it.
Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. If I put up a pic of a 1984 Corvette for $7K and write 1948 would people actually expect a car that a) doesn't exist (and if it did would be worth 100's of thousands) and b) looked identical to a 1984 model as pictured..... Was the price they paid fair for a 240ah cell ($70) or was it like $200/cell and what are they asking for back I wonder. Sure the spec is clearly mis-stated but returning the product could be cost-prohibitive.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
70
When I ordered the 420Ah cells, I was expecting a larger cell than the 280Ah reference. I also paid 3x the price of the 240Ah cell by the same seller. It seemed plausible at the time. I later calculated that with current technology, 420Ah/5.1Kg cell is not possible. If it was,
the EV industry would of bought all available supply. I bought my 32 Lishen 272Ah cells in Dec 2020 for $69 apiece + shipping. They
measured 280Ah capacity.
So they should be returning roughly 2/3 of your money.
 

digitaldoug

New Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2020
Messages
28
Your original thread about these cells, referenced in your first post in this thread made it pretty clear no one believed the claims.

Then there are your own words.
They will measure about 240Ah.
Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. If I put up a pic of a 1984 Corvette for $7K and write 1948 would people actually expect a car that a) doesn't exist (and if it did would be worth 100's of thousands) and b) looked identical to a 1984 model as pictured..... Was the price they paid fair for a 240ah cell ($70) or was it like $200/cell and what are they asking for back I wonder. Sure the spec is clearly mis-stated but returning the product could be cost-prohibitive.
I paid about $150 per cell times 20. I do not know how to ship them back for less that $2000.
 

Texas-Mark

Solar Addict
Joined
Aug 4, 2021
Messages
495
Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. If I put up a pic of a 1984 Corvette for $7K and write 1948 would people actually expect a car that a) doesn't exist (and if it did would be worth 100's of thousands) and b) looked identical to a 1984 model as pictured.....

A better analogy would be listing the size of the engine incorrectly. For many people they would not know the difference just by looking at it.

As for these batteries, unless someone is really into all of the technical aspects of this sort of thing, they tend to believe what is stamped on them. That does not make then stupid or anything. When someone goes to buy a new FLA battery for their boat, vehicle, etc., do they capacity test it before putting it in? Nobody I know does. They just assume they are getting what the label says.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
70
If you can't tell a 1984 vette from what a 1948 would perceivably look like you probably shouldn't be buying anything online. This whole youtube solar/lifepo4 community is absolutely obsessed with capacity testing.
 

Gadgetnerd

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
May 1, 2021
Messages
70
No, did you miss the part where a 1948 vette doesnt exist? That's kinda my central point about the 420ah cells.
 

Short_Shot

Photon Sorcerer
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
1,811
Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. If I put up a pic of a 1984 Corvette for $7K and write 1948 would people actually expect a car that a) doesn't exist (and if it did would be worth 100's of thousands) and b) looked identical to a 1984 model as pictured..... Was the price they paid fair for a 240ah cell ($70) or was it like $200/cell and what are they asking for back I wonder. Sure the spec is clearly mis-stated but returning the product could be cost-prohibitive.
Guarantee a certain percentage of the population would show up believing it.

All it takes is that non-zero percentage and the sale gets made.

And when you're on a platform the size of aliexpress you've got a large pool to turn that small percentage into a lot of money.

No, did you miss the part where a 1948 vette doesnt exist? That's kinda my central point about the 420ah cells.
Plenty of people have no idea that it doesn't exist.

That's kinda my central point lmao.
 

thegoogler

Solar Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 15, 2021
Messages
96
Buyer beware, due diligence and all that. If I put up a pic of a 1984 Corvette for $7K and write 1948 would people actually expect a car that a) doesn't exist (and if it did would be worth 100's of thousands) and b) looked identical to a 1984 model as pictured..... Was the price they paid fair for a 240ah cell ($70) or was it like $200/cell and what are they asking for back I wonder. Sure the spec is clearly mis-stated but returning the product could be cost-prohibitive.
If you modified the vehicle title to say "1948" then the buyer gets their $ back in full. If you want the Corvette back you need to pay to retrieve it. At least that's how the law generally works in the developed western world. It might be one thing if the seller mistyped 420 instead of 240 somewhere, but digitally editing the label or printing new stickers and placing them on the item is clearly intentionally fraudulent. When a seller commits fraud the buyer does not get a partial refund - they are fully compensated for the fraudulent sale. Can they be forced to return the fraudulent item? Yes, but at the sellers expense.

Of course you're not dealing with the western world here. You may live in the US, Canada, UK, or whatever, but you're buying from someone who is not located there and you're buying from a global commerce platform which is not located in the western world. So it's entirely possible you may have to return the cells to get your refund, or else be willing to accept a partial refund (whatever you can negotiate) for the reduced capacity. I'm not saying people shouldn't try, but just that in this scenario it is NOT a guarantee
 
Top