Cold weather inverter (Solark vs. Growatt)

[mvonw]

I'm looking for an inverter for my off grid cabin (mountains, cold) and have narrowed my choices to either the Solark 12k or Growatt SPF1200. Both are 240 volt split phase, which I need. After watching a very recent Signature Solar video, they emphasized not to use the inverter under 32 degrees F., which would be difficult in my situation (unheated shed, batteries will be heated). The Solark has an outdoor rated model that goes down to much lower (-13 F) ..

The growatt has much better specs in term of capacity and is half the price of the Solark, so it's tempting...

Has anyone one had experience with the Growwatt SPF1200T (48v DC/240 split phase AC) in unheated, COLD conditions?

Seems like so many solar folks and distributors live in warmer climes where this is not a consideration and don't have first have experience.

 

[Saul]

FYI, The Victron Multiplus II will go to -40 F

 

[mvonw]

FYI, The Victron Multiplus II will go to -40 F

Yes, I have seen that, but I think that's not split phase 240v. Link
Victrons seem great, but not really focused on the US off grid (DIY) market..

 

[welnat]

I don't know why it wouldn't work when cold - does the display not display properly due to low temp?
I have a cheaper mpp lv5024 and it is spec'd to be run at warmer temps, but it is in an unheated area that sees -20F
Call signature and ask them why they emphasize that specification?

 

[mvonw]

I don't know why it wouldn't work when cold - does the display not display properly due to low temp?
I have a cheaper mpp lv5024 and it is spec'd to be run at warmer temps, but it is in an unheated area that sees -20F
Call signature and ask them why they emphasize that specification?

Ha! I've tried to call signature about 10x. They don't answer their phones or return calls. I was planning on buying $20K worth of gear from them, but I'm not sure they are set up to support the volume. I've seen companies fail who grow too fast like this.

As for the video, he was very explicit about the documented temperature rating. He stated that the concern was possible condensation of moisture in the unit that could cause shorting. This sounded a lot like preemptive warranty claim type walk-back. Didn't give me the warm and fuzzy feeling.

 

[welnat]

That isn't very positive about signature. I've had very positive success with Ian at watts 247 picking up the phone as well as getting live answers from https://www.altestore.com/. If Alte store doesn't know they will find out the answer.

Edit, I see Ian sells the spf 12000 still https://watts247.com/product/new-gr...se-120v-240v-output-100a-at-120v-50a-at-240v/ and lists the same temp spec. I'll ask him.


Re the video, I think that could be a legitimate concern especially where it is cold and high humidity. I know of other instances where weak components have been conformally coated to provide moisture penetration issues in exposed potentiometers on boards.

Maybe some photon sorcerer here can comment from an engineering background on the issues faced...

Both those inverter chargers are transformer based right?

You could work it backwards too, call sol-ark and ask them what makes their unit able to operate down to this temp?

Maybe sensitive spots are conformally coated- or maybe they have tested and confirmed operation to that temp, and signature sells what they buy, i.e. their supplier says tested to this spec. and nothing else. Warranty refusal otherwise.

Think of solar farms and commercial installations, many are in cold areas and operate year round. Is that because the enclosure design facilitates that? I don't know. But someone here probably does.

 

[mvonw]

The SolArk is a high frequency inverter (no transformer) , the Growatt has a transformer.

There are two version of the SolArk 12, one is rated for outdoor use. I'm sort of leaning toward that one, even though it has lower specs than the growatt and is twice the price.

 

[welnat]

from Ian on the SPF12000T
We have them running in Canada and here is Utah well below freezing. And other spots. Electronics loves the cold, so I think this spec is academic.
Ian

now that solark outdoor rating is no joke, it is likely a weather tightness and rain proof ip6.. rating. But if you have a building for this, you don't need that right? Call Ian and ask him his experience with that model.

From my very limited experience, I would take transformer based over high frequency. I mean, when you mount it on the wall, you can feel the value as you struggle to get it mounted (with one person) Plus if you ever let the smoke out, you have some copper scrap value and the transformer based one is likely easier to repair if there is a problem. Or more scrap value.

I know very little about these things , so count it as speculation and conjecture, and check with someone like Ian who has run the model that doesn't have the temp rating you are concerned with. I do have some experience doing things that other people say you shouldn't or wouldn't due to arbitrary reasons (which may not be the case with these inverters) and it is always a learning experience (mostly positive).

The sol-ark will have all your code ratings that your electrical inspector (if you have one) will want to see, so there is that.

 

[mvonw]

from Ian on the SPF12000T
We have them running in Canada and here is Utah well below freezing. And other spots. Electronics loves the cold, so I think this spec is academic.
Ian

now that solark outdoor rating is no joke, it is likely a weather tightness and rain proof ip6.. rating. But if you have a building for this, you don't need that right? Call Ian and ask him his experience with that model.

I'm building a shed (unheated, but with an insulated/heated battery box), so it will be protected, but I don't mind paying for a little extra protection.

thanks for checking on that. I agree with Ian that the Growatt temp spec is probably super conservative. It's unlikely to be a real-world issue. By the the time it likely failed, there would be new, better, cheaper inverters available

 

[welnat]

or buy two and keep one on standby, or for expansion... money won't buy more goods than in this moment now.

 

[gray webber]

I'm looking for an inverter for my off grid cabin (mountains, cold) and have narrowed my choices to either the Solark 12k or Growatt SPF1200. Both are 240 volt split phase, which I need. After watching a very recent Signature Solar video, they emphasized not to use the inverter under 32 degrees F., which would be difficult in my situation (unheated shed, batteries will be heated). The Solark has an outdoor rated model that goes down to much lower (-13 F) ..

The growatt has much better specs in term of capacity and is half the price of the Solark, so it's tempting...

Has anyone one had experience with the Growwatt SPF1200T (48v DC/240 split phase AC) in unheated, COLD conditions?

Seems like so many solar folks and distributors live in warmer climes where this is not a consideration and don't have first have experience.

For what it’s worth:
Victron scan be configured in multi units. Maybe two units to supply split phase is possible?
I have experience with Samlex and like it but now have a Victron and it is great. Love the multi plus, dongle and soon the Smart shunt.
I thought I would be adverse to the phone monitoring and controls but it’s sweet.
I am building a solar box that holds all components for outside 100fy away from planned camp in cold weather (-7f) this am.
I hope to seal in heat so my inverter and charge controller are in moderate temps?
I can monitor that temp be Bluetooth with the dongle attached to the side of the inverter. Kind of a plusTo have it and less wires?

 

[400bird]

I feel like you are looking at both ends of the spectrum. There are plenty of options between the $2000 growatt and $8000 SolArk

I've got a Schneider XW6848 pro, spec sheet says it's good to -13F

The Outback Radian rating is low, but I don't quite understand it "Rated: –20 to 50°C | Maximum: -40 to 60°C"

Both of those are low frequency inverters that will start motors, something the high frequency SolArk isn't good at.

 

[gray webber]

Schneider is good stuff too. They offer the split phase you need. Many suppliers praise them. And sell them. Big company and support.
So many choices/ good luck!

 

[RV10flyer]

That isn't very positive about signature. I've had very positive success with Ian at watts 247 picking up the phone as well as getting live answers from https://www.altestore.com/. If Alte store doesn't know they will find out the answer.

Edit, I see Ian sells the spf 12000 still https://watts247.com/product/new-gr...se-120v-240v-output-100a-at-120v-50a-at-240v/ and lists the same temp spec. I'll ask him.
View attachment 82123

Re the video, I think that could be a legitimate concern especially where it is cold and high humidity. I know of other instances where weak components have been conformally coated to provide moisture penetration issues in exposed potentiometers on boards.

Maybe some photon sorcerer here can comment from an engineering background on the issues faced...

Both those inverter chargers are transformer based right?

You could work it backwards too, call sol-ark and ask them what makes their unit able to operate down to this temp?

Maybe sensitive spots are conformally coated- or maybe they have tested and confirmed operation to that temp, and signature sells what they buy, i.e. their supplier says tested to this spec. and nothing else. Warranty refusal otherwise.

Think of solar farms and commercial installations, many are in cold areas and operate year round. Is that because the enclosure design facilitates that? I don't know. But someone here probably does.

This is the exact reason I only purchase from Adam at AltE!

As long as we keep the sensitive/high cost electronics warmer than the dew point of the air, we should be fine. If I see higher temperatures and moisture heading my way from the SW or Gulf of Mexico, I ensure that all of my electronics are pre-heated. Aircraft electronics also last longer with this practice.

 

[Ampster]

If this is off grid then a SolArk is a waste of money. It has a lot of features for grid interaction that the OP does not need and shouldn't pay for.