Complete noob. Yep, another DC solar trailer question

[fromport]

Once the battery is nearly full it will automatically go to float mode. it is not a setting you have to adjust. your battery is just empty

End of the day photo of my charge controller

 

[Hedges]

Unfortunately this is where I'm still playing extreme catch up, lost every tool I had in the 2020 LNU fire. I don't even have a voltmeter. Even a recommendation on which one to get in order to read currents would be helpful. I don't want to just buy some garbage harbor freight one

Let me suggest ... a garbage harbor freight one:

Please help me

So here is what I have, an epever tracer AN series charge controler, 8x renology 100watt panels in parallel, 4x 100Ah sealed AGM type batteries in parallel. a 3500watt inverter. everything is 12v and off grid. I’m not sure what readings are normal and what’s not. So I hooked everything up and...

diysolarforum.com

I do have a Fluke, which I prefer, but the Harbor Freight one I bought for DC clamp ammeter works perfectly for what I want, from 0.010A resolution reading PV panels to 1000A max for battery. (most other brands didn't give that resolution.)
FilterGuy got one and had flaky probe readings, but fixed it by resoldering the banana jacks.

 

[73powerstroke]

Not enough panels

 

[Dude77]

End of the day photo of my charge controller

View attachment 100657

Got it! Understood. Thank you for that

 

[Dude77]

Let me suggest ... a garbage harbor freight one:

Please help me

So here is what I have, an epever tracer AN series charge controler, 8x renology 100watt panels in parallel, 4x 100Ah sealed AGM type batteries in parallel. a 3500watt inverter. everything is 12v and off grid. I’m not sure what readings are normal and what’s not. So I hooked everything up and...

diysolarforum.com

I do have a Fluke, which I prefer, but the Harbor Freight one I bought for DC clamp ammeter works perfectly for what I want, from 0.010A resolution reading PV panels to 1000A max for battery. (most other brands didn't give that resolution.)
FilterGuy got one and had flaky probe readings, but fixed it by resoldering the banana jacks.

Now that's funny! I don't have too many people usually recommend harbor freight, but stranger things have happened and I know firsthand they've got products that do actually stand the test of time. So be it. Thank you!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

discharge typically hasn't gone below 44 or 45 volts,

That is what is killing your batteries

one of the batteries started smoking so I disconnected it for now.

battery off gassing? Hot cable made steam? Connector smoking?
There’s a huge difference between those.
I’d bet the battery wasn’t smoking but offgassing or boiling if in bad health.

Water must have bridged the 48V somehow. :-(

That seems unlikely. Plain water isn’t THAT conductive.

Even a recommendation on which one to get in order to read currents would be helpful

The $85 Klein on amazonian is what I’d recommend

 

[fromport]

battery off gassing? Hot cable made steam? Connector smoking?
There’s a huge difference between those.
I’d bet the battery wasn’t smoking but offgassing or boiling if in bad health.
That seems unlikely. Plain water isn’t THAT conductive.

They put the forklift batteries in metal cabinets which are placed under the angled panels

With a closer look at the area where I saw the smoke come from:

Something that got wet started to conduct and it clearly started to burn. It is really close to the grounded metal box.

I used a non conducting piece of wood to scrape away what it was.


Will clean it off with a dry brush later today.

We live and learn every day (if we are lucky) ;-)

 

[fromport]

Sorry for your loss.
If it is of any interest...I did come across this.

https://industrialbid.com/lot-details/index/catalog/4422/lot/801105

I hope this is not where this trailer building folks got them.
Mike

I am going to replace them with a series of 19" rack 48V 100Ah batteries. I just need to put them in a weather tight environment.
Will save a lot of weight on the trailer

 

[Dude77]

Okay back with a little bit more info, from my last posting I was able to swing by the property and turn on the midnight classic to charge the batteries. They charged for 2 days, I came by the property today In the midnight controller was reading 55.6 volts on the battery but still in bulk mode..... Can someone please tell me what exactly makes it convert over to float mode?

I couldn't stay long on the property but I fired up the sunny islands and promptly turned on only one AC unit And within about 45 minutes to an hour it tripped the sunny island master..... I was unfortunately occupied on my phone so didn't make it out to see what the voltage drop was... Was on the phone for approximately 35 minutes and when I came back the sunny island was actually still on or maybe reset itself to on, and the midnight classic was reading 51 volts.... So I'm perplexed why am I AC suddenly stopped

 

[Dude77]

I've dealt with maintenance batteries and vehicles before but just want to double check there's nothing special I need to do for these giant forklift ones? I'm assuming just remove the cap and fill with distilled water until near the top?

 

[Dude77]

I guess I'm also kind of afraid to go looking, but what's the price of two replacement batteries such as these these days?

Or another thought, is the midnight classic controller able to charge lithium ion batteries such as the battleborn?

 

[fromport]

Okay back with a little bit more info, from my last posting I was able to swing by the property and turn on the midnight classic to charge the batteries. They charged for 2 days, I came by the property today In the midnight controller was reading 55.6 volts on the battery but still in bulk mode..... Can someone please tell me what exactly makes it convert over to float mode?

I couldn't stay long on the property but I fired up the sunny islands and promptly turned on only one AC unit And within about 45 minutes to an hour it tripped the sunny island master..... I was unfortunately occupied on my phone so didn't make it out to see what the voltage drop was... Was on the phone for approximately 35 minutes and when I came back the sunny island was actually still on or maybe reset itself to on, and the midnight classic was reading 51 volts.... So I'm perplexed why am I AC suddenly stopped

The midnite solar CC will change to float mode when the batteries are nearly full.
So the only thing you can do is wait. But if your batteries are shot (again: I haven't found one yet that is even 50% of it's rated capacity after checking 9 in total so far) it might never reach full.
Those large capacity batteries also liked to charged with real amps, not the 2400watt/48 volt = 50 amps the panels on the trailer are able to supple.
That is trickle charging for these batteries.
I hope you didn't pay too much for your trailer.

I've dealt with maintenance batteries and vehicles before but just want to double check there's nothing special I need to do for these giant forklift ones? I'm assuming just remove the cap and fill with distilled water until near the top?

Yep, i took a readings before and after charging readings of the specific gravity. When I sucked up the fluid from the individual cells there was a lot of black gunk inside the liquid: aka batteries are shot

I guess I'm also kind of afraid to go looking, but what's the price of two replacement batteries such as these these days?

Or another thought, is the midnight classic controller able to charge lithium ion batteries such as the battleborn?

If you have to replace those batteries, go li-ion.
According to this video

the midnite solar 250 classic can charge Li-ion batteries.
Afaik they have put a limited capability version of the CC on these trailers so I don't know if this is true for "our" charge controllers.
In my first response I calculated that the current panel capacity is no where near enough capacity to recharge the lead acid batteries.
The 235 watt panels on my trailer have a (STC rated) power of 144 watt/m2 or 13.45watt/sqft.
Modern larger panels (eg solaria 440watt) are rated 203 watt/m2 or 18.9 watt/sqft or a 30% increase in capacity for the same sq surface.
But ofcourse those new panels have different sizes and are heavier so they will never fit 1:1 on the trailer.
Best thing you can is make some kind of ground mount PV array next to it to help fill the batteries.

 

[Dude77]

The midnite solar CC will change to float mode when the batteries are nearly full.
So the only thing you can do is wait. But if your batteries are shot (again: I haven't found one yet that is even 50% of it's rated capacity after checking 9 in total so far) it might never reach full.
Those large capacity batteries also liked to charged with real amps, not the 2400watt/48 volt = 50 amps the panels on the trailer are able to supple.
That is trickle charging for these batteries.
I hope you didn't pay too much for your trailer.


Yep, i took a readings before and after charging readings of the specific gravity. When I sucked up the fluid from the individual cells there was a lot of black gunk inside the liquid: aka batteries are shot

If you have to replace those batteries, go li-ion.
According to this video

the midnite solar 250 classic can charge Li-ion batteries.
Afaik they have put a limited capability version of the CC on these trailers so I don't know if this is true for "our" charge controllers.
In my first response I calculated that the current panel capacity is no where near enough capacity to recharge the lead acid batteries.
The 235 watt panels on my trailer have a (STC rated) power of 144 watt/m2 or 13.45watt/sqft.
Modern larger panels (eg solaria 440watt) are rated 203 watt/m2 or 18.9 watt/sqft or a 30% increase in capacity for the same sq surface.
But ofcourse those new panels have different sizes and are heavier so they will never fit 1:1 on the trailer.
Best thing you can is make some kind of ground mount PV array next to it to help fill the batteries.
View attachment 100971

Thank you for all of that, looks like I've got some reading to do.

As far as adding additional panels, this is where I would fall short in my knowledge bank, well, at least somewhat. Would I be adding them in series or parallel to the existing panels? Or what I run them separately to the midnight pv panel?

 

[73powerstroke]

The midnite solar CC will change to float mode when the batteries are nearly full.
So the only thing you can do is wait. But if your batteries are shot (again: I haven't found one yet that is even 50% of it's rated capacity after checking 9 in total so far) it might never reach full.
Those large capacity batteries also liked to charged with real amps, not the 2400watt/48 volt = 50 amps the panels on the trailer are able to supple.
That is trickle charging for these batteries.
I hope you didn't pay too much for your trailer.


Yep, i took a readings before and after charging readings of the specific gravity. When I sucked up the fluid from the individual cells there was a lot of black gunk inside the liquid: aka batteries are shot

If you have to replace those batteries, go li-ion.
According to this video

the midnite solar 250 classic can charge Li-ion batteries.
Afaik they have put a limited capability version of the CC on these trailers so I don't know if this is true for "our" charge controllers.
In my first response I calculated that the current panel capacity is no where near enough capacity to recharge the lead acid batteries.
The 235 watt panels on my trailer have a (STC rated) power of 144 watt/m2 or 13.45watt/sqft.
Modern larger panels (eg solaria 440watt) are rated 203 watt/m2 or 18.9 watt/sqft or a 30% increase in capacity for the same sq surface.
But ofcourse those new panels have different sizes and are heavier so they will never fit 1:1 on the trailer.
Best thing you can is make some kind of ground mount PV array next to it to help fill the batteries.
View attachment 100971

How many extra panels did you add?

 

[fromport]

How many extra panels did you add?

I have 8x 158watt panels hooked up to the midnite solar CC just to keep the (shot) lead acid batteries charged. I don't even have the SMA Islands on.
I mounted a grid tied fronius primo 3.8 on the trailer with the 10 panels from the trailer and one of the rows on the ground on the photo.
The other row is hooked up to my megarevo hybrid inverter ;-)

 

[fromport]

Would I be adding them in series or parallel to the existing panels? Or what I run them separately to the midnight pv panel?

I would add another charge controller, either midnite classic 250 or anything else you want and hookup extra panels to that independent of the current setup of panels/charge controller.

 

[Dude77]

Okay folks, I'm back, sorry for the delay, as mentioned I think earlier I've got a ton of family issues contending in the background. It's delayed pretty much anything I could do.

I made it up to the property and for one day only the midnight solar was showing it was in float mode. Only having the refrigerator and a light on or two as I stayed overnight and into the next day, it was back into bulk mode and has not returned to float mode

 

[fromport]

Okay folks, I'm back, sorry for the delay, as mentioned I think earlier I've got a ton of family issues contending in the background. It's delayed pretty much anything I could do.

I made it up to the property and for one day only the midnight solar was showing it was in float mode. Only having the refrigerator and a light on or two as I stayed overnight and into the next day, it was back into bulk mode and has not returned to float mode

So I am afraid to conclude that your batteries are shot. If the batteries can't keep up with the fridge and some lights and return to float mode the next day, that is not a good sign. just before dark, could you read the display on the charge controller and tell us how much kWh that day was put in the batteries?

 

[Dude77]

My freaking hydrometer and voltmeter finally arrived, no thanks to Amazon taking its sweet time, but so now what?

I guess I mean specifically, do I need to shut everything down to refill the wet forklift battery cells or is that something I can do while the unit is running? And yes I know I should wear safety glasses....

 

[Dude77]

So I am afraid to conclude that your batteries are shot. If the batteries can't keep up with the fridge and some lights and return to float mode the next day, that is not a good sign. just before dark, could you read the display on the charge controller and tell us how much kWh that day was put in the batteries?

I will attempt to get a KW read before the end of today or tomorrow, I expect to be back at the property hopefully today, if not certainly tomorrow