diy solar

diy solar

Complete rebuild of a house - how would you power and heat/cool ?

A laudable goal. Just don't miss the forest for the trees. You can't get out of paying to keep your car running, food, rent to the government (property tax), tribute to the healthcare system so they keep you alive longer, internet, and paying for replacements to stuff that breaks especially your cheap Chinese solar parts.

I bet those costs are way more than what the power company charges.

I was an ASE Certified Master Technician (with F1 CNG certs) for 20 years in my previous career, I fix all my own vehicles my whole life. I know the cheapest ways to fix any car problems, tractors, semi trucks, anything really, I'm not worried about fixing stuff. Of course it's not free, you still have to buy parts hehe...

I joined an agricultural co-op to learn how to grow my own food (still not quite there yet), but the idea is to learn to live and become more self-reliant...

As far as health care... I hope I don't live too long a time, I'd take death first.. I haven't seen a doctor in more than a decade, had enough of Western medicine, generally... Although my employer still takes out money for my medical plan. I probably wouldn't quit my job anytime soon.

The property tax thing though, that one disgusts me, that is unconstitutional. It means the government really owns your property. I have no problem with any other kind of tax (income tax, sales tax, gas tax, etc), except property taxes. It just drives out old people with fixed retirement incomes, from their properties since the valuations keep going up every year, their incomes are fixed (eventually can get driven out of their home they spent their whole life building). You can't really own any real estate, the government really owns it (you rent it from them until death basically).

As far as power company costs, this new property I'm building out on the ranch, doesn't have any power for many miles away from it, so I kind of have to figure out my own off-grid solution there anyways.

I guess it's all part of the game though✌️
 
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They were either 10,000 or 5,000 for sure.
I don’t know why - they took care of all of it.
Yes, they were huge!
 
I will already be doing the digging so I can build DIY geothermal to help keep the animals cool in the extreme summer (rabbits don't do well in the heat) . not tough to dig a little more. :)
It may be possible to do some digging around the foundation to divert water that might cause issues with your foundation or in your basement. ;)
 
Yeah 10k gallon tanks are the semi truck sized tanks hauled to distributers tank farms.

Local delivery trucks aren 5,000 gallon. Even at a crazy low price of $2/gal delivered, I’d be livid if I had to fill those up 2x a year.
 
Yeah my parents in the PNW have a big giant propane tank on their property too, and I always would hear them gripe about how much it costs to fill it every so many months hehe...

That's where I grew up over there too in the PNW, when I was a kid, we had the air tight stove, with the hot water pipes on it to heat the hot water heater, we cut our own firewood off of our 7 acres forest, I would split it and stack it as my chores every year. No thanks, got tired of it, besides wood stinks up the house (unless you're into that cabin fireplace smell thing hehe)...

My grandparents next door to us, they had a wood furnace that was in the garage, built siamesed onto the central heating system, theirs was a little better since it was in the garage it didn't stink up the house, but you still had to go out, cut down trees and cut/stack the wood.

Pellet stoves are handy, my parents newer place has one and I would fire it up sometimes when I go visit over there, but pellets are expensive, don't really see how you save anything there...

Thread-jack warning...
Pellet stoves are CONVENIENT. From what I've read about 1500lbs equals a cord of firewood. The big-box home stores sell 40lb bags for $3 +/-, so about the same cost as well. Most of them hold 40lbs of pellets and the fancier ones double that. Some you only need to fill once a day, or even every other day. And they burn super clean, less ash than with conventional firewood. Unless I get pursuaded to go regular firewood burner I'm pretty sure we'll have one if we move up there. Winters are stupid cold in eastern WA.

I have a pellet smoker grill - a GMG traeger knock-off and it's dabomb.

And yeah, I like the burnt smoky smell LOL. Then there's the creosote in the chimney that needs to get swept out once a year or so I think so your chimney doesn't catch fire.

I cut my share of firewood as well. Fortunately, I was a bodybuilder in my mid-twenties, and I could swing a double-bladed ax like a lumberjack. In fact, when we were poor, I would work at the office all day, come home and split a cord and load it in the truck, deliver it after work, and load up another...for maybe three or four days a week. In many cases we could get the wood for free, either from someone clearing land, or when the forest service opened up free wood areas. I got pretty good at felling trees too.

The problem with firewood is it has to season - so at least a couple of dry months. Best to cut and stack over summer to burn over winter.
Yes, it's a GIANT PITA. :sneaky: If you let alder season before you split it it was like concrete. LOL The old adage was that firewood warmed you twice - once when you cut and split it and once when you burned it.

Our lpg tanks were about 15' long and about 5' in diameter. I'm pretty sure they were 10K gallon, but I could be mistaken. I know they brought two when we ordered one, and they said it was on them, they wanted us to have two out there. Super nice people IIRC. It was a nice deal but I only lived there a couple of months and left the ol' lady. That's a whole 'nother story in itself. I had to call the John Deere dealer and tell them I couldn't keep the new diesel tractor - they said 'no problem, we'll just sell it to someone else', and came and picked it up no charge.

Thread jack off... ?
 
I just remembered the house needs gutters. That will probably fix it
I lived next to a little old lady who would ask me to clean her gutters, after the overflow would flood the basement.
I bought her house a few years later and solved the issue by diverting downspouts WAY away from the house.
 
Yeah the simplest and laziest way to set it up:

If the grid power is of reasonable cost, just do 2-3 mini splits you install yourself on exterior walls. (speaking from experience use exterior walls only and mount the outside unit on a wall bracket on the thick rubber mounts).

You can do each install in a couple hours once you learn how on the first one.

Don't over spend on insulation just seal leaks. Energy star appliances, condensing type for the fossil fuel burning ones. Gas dryers instead of electric. Countertop convection/air fryers instead of conventional ovens. Shower stall instead of tub with curtain and a 1 gpm head. And of course all LED bulbs.

No reason to bother with solar if grid power is cheap. Just install a generator inlet on an exterior wall and an interlock kit to let it back feed the electrical panel. All of $100 in materials. (Electricians will gouge to install). And have a small generator for backup that can use propane or gas.
You are dependent on someone sending a truck to deliver replacement parts and the things you cannot make yourself at all times. Thats just how the world works. Hope you have diversified financial assets.

Bricked - I am trying to understand your motive in this thread. The comments are not positive towards the discussion. The question is How would you power, heat, and cool a house so you can be off-grid and very comfortable? If you don't have positive suggestions, please do the appropriate course of action.

 
Indiana, forget the air source heat pumps for heating in the dead of winter. Ground source geothermal heat pump, closed loop, don't let them talk you into the well type loops unless it has a closed loop to it. The reasons why are manifold, the wells take power to pump up the water. That means more horsepower and more watts. Closed loop because my neighbor has the well system and has to clean the system all the time, hard water will scale and pumps don't last.

If you have the room, ground mount. I have seen people with roof mount and need to repair wiring or replace a panel. Royal pain in the ass getting everything set up to get up there, then once you are up there, you need this or that and didn't bring it up with you.

Insulate like crazy, make the whole home energy efficient. Spend the money on window upgrades now.

If your basement is wet, I'd find room upstairs to install your inverters. One can always add on space, heated garages are one example.

You might get by with an oversize array with dump load to heat water and go radiant floor heat with a backup condensing boiler. I have infloor heat in my shop with a Triangle Tube condensing boiler, it sips fuel. I'm heating 4500 sq ft at 70F, 18 foot ceiling, 3 overhead doors, largest is 26x16 and I can get by with 800 gallons of LP all winter. You lose plenty of heat opening the doors. Walls are 11 inches of insulation, ceiling is R70.

Was -18F here last week, it was cozy in my shop.
 
A lot of bad information in this thread. Most suggestions are cool but not a good use of dollars.

Correct information : don't bother with anything else but high SEER 9000 btu single head mini splits. The 38 SEER rebranded Gree models on signature_solar are the cheapest but if you don't trust that brand you can get Fujitsu models over 30 SEER. You will need 2-3 depending on layout. Small rooms get a vent.

No one said to buy cheap units. you are providing your view and frankly a 3/4 ton unit may or may not be the correct size. You MUST size HVAC correctly. Why only single head? No explanation provided.

Insulation is good, especially important for split heating is to seal air leaks to prevent drafts.

Radiant heat in floor is a huge cost unless the plumbing is already installed. If it is obviously the way to go is a condensing boiler that burns gas or propane.
you sound like my son. What is obvious about it?

If the tubing isn't installed use electric for the radiant heating, less efficient but it's just to make the bathroom floor warn.

For solar a ground mount array using bifacial panels is the obvious way to go. For the batteries obviously server rack lithium iron phosphate at 48v. Will seems to like the MPP brand (from watts247) more than growatts.

You probably will need about 10 kilowatts of bifacial panels, 5k on signature solar. 3 server rack batteries, $4500-$5k. A large all in one inverter, $2400 for the 12k growatts. And probably about $1k in wire and subpanel and breakers and building materials for the rack.
How did you come up with this information? Frankly, I am not going bifacial. how did you come up with the 10kW of panels? 3 of the rack batteries is only 15kw. I have more than that now! You obviously have not researched the 12k growatt and do not recognize its shortcomings! 2 6k are a better option as they overcome those shortcomings. IF, and only IF, I were to use those inverters.

Wire it so that your loads are on a subpanel that has 2 breakers, one 60 amp from your main grid powered panel and one from your inverters. Use an interlock kit. This way you can just switch back to the grid if your cheap inverter fails.
How did you come up with this?

Don't forget to have this in a separate building than your main dwelling. And mount your solar power board on cement board.
why? Where are you getting this? you are confusing lead acid with LFO technology.

For hot water either takagi tankless condensing outdoor units, fed by gas or propane, or a hybrid heat pump water heater. Some advantages either way.

For your laundry there are heat pump dryers if you want to solar power them, or you can use fuel burning. Same for your dishwasher, the highest rated models use heat pumps to heat the water.

Sigh. you are throwing out a lot of statements with zero justifications behind them.
 
Insulate like crazy, make the whole home energy efficient. Spend the money on window upgrades now.
The plan is to foam the walls. I am just trying to figure out what all that will entail to do correctly (I know I have to run all wiring first). Windows may have to wait simply due to them being custom sized today. Money will be tight.

If you have the room, ground mount. I have seen people with roof mount and need to repair wiring or replace a panel. Royal pain in the ass getting everything set up to get up there, then once you are up there, you need this or that and didn't bring it up with you.

I have a place to ground mount. I also have a HUGE barn I can put panels on that faces directly East/West. Will end up doing both. Yes, getting up to the roof is a PITA. But also allows capture of all the sun. One step at a time.
If your basement is wet, I'd find room upstairs to install your inverters.

only one corner in the original basement (root cellar). rest of basement (dug later in house's life) is dry except where the stairs are wide open (needs a door).
You might get by with an oversize array with dump load to heat water and go radiant floor heat with a backup condensing boiler. I have infloor heat in my shop with a Triangle Tube condensing boiler, it sips fuel. I'm heating 4500 sq ft at 70F, 18 foot ceiling, 3 overhead doors, largest is 26x16 and I can get by with 800 gallons of LP all winter. You lose plenty of heat opening the doors. Walls are 11 inches of insulation, ceiling is R70.

This is a great suggestion. I am trying to figure out the oversize option. I will look up your boiler. I love the idea of Solar Thermal as well. Gotta have multiple options.

For the geothermal, closed loop only. No well or open loop. Not even an option! I have the space, they can use it.
 
with firewood is it has to season - so at least a couple of dry months. Best to cut and stack over summer to burn over winter.
Yes, it's a GIANT PITA. :sneaky: If you let alder season before you split it it was like concrete
Apparently I am irrevocably disillusioned by growing up with wood heat. That we cut and split and had several seasons ahead so it was dry.
And wood that isn’t dried two seasons isn’t dried. Wet wood creosotes the chimney and ‘a few months’ might let it burn but you’re wasting a bunch of energy boiling off the water.
I hear stupid things like, “you can’t dry the wood too long or it burns so fast you don’t get enough heat out of it.” The reality is an airtight stove with dry wood does very well if you have a thermostatic damper and learn how to use it.
Finnish company. They get the soapstone for the fireplace from the same quarry as the other big one, Nunnauuni - which is one I have in that picture I posted a few posts back.
No. Well, yes, it’s a company today. Selling stuff.

What I was referring to was the masonry multiple-chamber wood heaters problematic by the King in (???) the 1400s due to the European firewood shortage. You’d start a fire in the masonry firebox and burn it hot for about an hour. The gasses entered sequential chambers where oxygen was introduced and the gasses would be burned again several different times with ever increasing heat. The masonry would get ridiculously hot for just a big armload of wood and radiate the generated heat all throughout the day.

That a company is using the name as a brand has obscured this arcane antique technology a little bit. The centuries-old design burned nearly all the available energy in the wood creating heat rather than sending a ton of unburned carbon out the chimney. They were so much more efficient than a single stage wood fired heater.

No matter: the point is that you don’t want to heat the basement you want to heat the living spaces.
The question is How would you power, heat, and cool a house so you can be off-grid and very comfortable?
Wood heat is good imho. Renewable resource.

A pellet stove use 5A to 11A from what I’ve seen. So that’s a big solar hit. Per BTU, pellets are 25% more expensive- depending. But they will keep the pipes from freezing for 24hours where a woodstove generally can’t.
 
Our lpg tanks were about 15' long and about 5' in diameter. I'm pretty sure they were 10K gallon, but I could be mistaken.
Thread jack off... ?
That’s 1000 gallon size. Which is still huge for a single residential house

Something like 35’ and 10’ diameter is 10k gallon, they don’t deliver two of those at a time ?
 
No. Well, yes, it’s a company today. Selling stuff.

Tulikivi is literally a Finnish word meaning 'brimstone'. I highly doubt a Finnish term was used as far back as the 1400s.

The centuries-old design burned nearly all the available energy in the wood creating heat rather than sending a ton of unburned carbon out the chimney.

This is still the same with modern masonry heaters. Mine sits as 88% efficiency; there is no smoke coming from the chimney.
 
Tulikivi is literally a Finnish word meaning 'brimstone'. I highly doubt a Finnish term was used as far back as the 1400s.
True
But until the Brand Name got to advertising online you could find the story of the Dane or Finn King decreeing only this type of heater could be used due to deforestation. It may not have been 1400s I can’t recall.
The history and instructions that were available online in the 1990s are completely gone I guess; all searches just yield advertising for dealers of Tulikivi and Wikipedia’s ‘masonry heater’ page has dropped the mention.

I learned about these from an elderly Dutch couple that had this unusual central masonry monolith with cookstove plates on the kitchen/firebox side in a house I was sent to do some work in. I asked about it. He was 1/2 Danish and a retired engineer and I got a 45-minute lecture on the theory and high temperatures of the burn and science of the thing.
Probably 30 years ago now.
 
For cooling, I’d consider a mini split for each room, but would probably still go with central air with one or two 5 ton units.

Two 5 ton units? I cool the same size 2 story house in the Phoenix area with 3 tons. 10 tons would be excessive and fail at taking any humidity out.
 
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