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Compression vs restriction

Question from the peanut gallery - at what SOC do you do the compression? or does it need to be springs so the compression stays even through the cycle?

The general consensus is that they should be compressed somewhere closer to a 50% state of charge. My approach is that I compress them before I do my top balance process*. They arrive at 50% state of charge, so that works out well for me. Of course, I have to remove them from compression to transition them from the top balance configuration to an actual 16s battery. So is that bad? I dunno, but it's worked out for me now on my third DIY LiFePO4 battery.

WRT the Kapton tape, many of the off-the-shelf batteries are using Kapton tape or something similar to "compress" or hold the cells together. If Kapton tape was the only option, I would compress the cells with a clamping system, put on the Kapton tape and then remove the clamping system. I used a set of pony pipe clamps and aluminum plates to compress the cells during top balancing and I would do something similar to get the Kapton tape on.

IMO, springs are overkill, trying to satisfy the compression requirement after we've already handled 99.5% of the requirement. But I applaud the folks that have done the math and figured out which springs to use and exactly how tight to make them.

* - top balancing seems to be going out of vogue in favor of slapping the cells together and letting the BMS balance the cells. This assumes that you have a BMS that has enough balancing amps to do the job.
 
I did read where just restraining them at 50% or less charge then putting them to full charge can increase the pressure internal massively from the expansion of the 16 cell string ... this was in the thread advocating for spring.
 
If the cells are not compressed you better figure out a good buss bar solution, you can see what will eventually happen to the cells in the video above as they puff and push apart. They recommend compression for a reason, I compressed mine as I don’t want to burn down my $100,000 work truck.
 
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The general consensus is that they should be compressed somewhere closer to a 50% state of charge. My approach is that I compress them before I do my top balance process*. They arrive at 50% state of charge, so that works out well for me. Of course, I have to remove them from compression to transition them from the top balance configuration to an actual 16s battery. So is that bad? I dunno, but it's worked out for me now on my third DIY LiFePO4 battery.

WRT the Kapton tape, many of the off-the-shelf batteries are using Kapton tape or something similar to "compress" or hold the cells together. If Kapton tape was the only option, I would compress the cells with a clamping system, put on the Kapton tape and then remove the clamping system. I used a set of pony pipe clamps and aluminum plates to compress the cells during top balancing and I would do something similar to get the Kapton tape on.

IMO, springs are overkill, trying to satisfy the compression requirement after we've already handled 99.5% of the requirement. But I applaud the folks that have done the math and figured out which springs to use and exactly how tight to make them.

* - top balancing seems to be going out of vogue in favor of slapping the cells together and letting the BMS balance the cells. This assumes that you have a BMS that has enough balancing amps to do the job.
It’s partially because people are in a hurry and don’t have the patience to do it right. People decide to ignore the specifications and install requirements that they don’t like or are too much of a hassle. I see it all the time in the HVAC world, I have seen people killed because of the lack of ability to read and comprehend instructions.
 
Time will be the judge.

As for Andy, I said this,

"If he was serious about actual testing, it would have 2 sets of cells, one in compression and one set loose. Both in parallel and both at the same date/ batch of manufacture plus also entered into service at the same date. Then capacity test at one year intervals."

Anything else is not based upon factual data.

^This^

Any any properly designed experiment needs replicates too. This is why experiments get expensive.
 
Well two of my 4s batteries are going on 2.5 years compressed to 660lbs and mounted on 1” vibration dampers in a work truck that drives on real rough roads, time will tell.
 
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I am just looking for a better undersatnding to make an informed decision. 7000 newtons is 1573 pounds, which is pretty serious compression. I'm not even sure how to measure that.

So it looks like i'm back to the drawing board for my battery room. I'm going to need to start looking up examples of what people have done.

Just out of curiosity I see people opening battery boxes with lifepo4, and they don't appear to be compressed. Is there something I'm missing?
This is how I do it.


For a double row pack, the same applies, just wider plates and half the length of rods. I'm currently building 8 double row fixtures.
 
This isn't rocket science. It's mechanical basics.

I guess none of you are familiar with the reason bolts are torqued and how much pre-load is imparted?

A 3/8" unlubricated threaded bolt torqued to 10 ft-lb will apply a 1600 lb clamping force.
I was not aware of that. You learn new things every day! But 1600lb is more than 7000 newtons. So 9ft-lb?
 
This is how I do it.


For a double row pack, the same applies, just wider plates and half the length of rods. I'm currently building 8 double row fixtures.
I'm guessing you don't get that 3/8" aluminum plate from home depot?
 
No, you don't. They do carry some aluminum products but not plate the size you would need for the end of a stack of cells.
Looks like I'm going to the steel supply shop then. With double wide, maybe steel would be better than aluminum so it won't bend as easily.
 
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If the cells are not compressed you better figure out a good buss bar solution, you can see what will eventually happen to the cells in the video above as they puff and push apart. They recommend compression for a reason, I compressed mine as I don’t want to burn down my $100,000 work truck.
If i order a brand .
Than i its Oke to use

Reason my own battery are from a brand with 5 years warranty
Even the number of the battery is registered in the systeem.

If that company do not use the specs .
Well than its time for a judge .
I do not pay 1000 euro for 150a and its junk.
 
This isn't rocket science. It's mechanical basics.

I guess none of you are familiar with the reason bolts are torqued and how much pre-load is imparted?

A 3/8" unlubricated threaded bolt torqued to 10 ft-lb will apply a 1600 lb clamping force.
So, 10ft lb spread across 4 bolts would be 2.5ftlb each?
 
Since manufacturers recommend a compressive force, I think a spring-loaded compression that stays within range as cells swell and shrink would be ideal.
That does require compliant busbars.

Alternatively, something like Poron between each cell could work with rigid busbars, if the Poron meets force spec over displacement.

What I bought are CATL 4s packs. They have a steel enclosure (embossed for stiffness.) This is packaging by the cell manufacturer, must be good enough.

Datasheet for the 4s pack includes cell spec:
"Cell cycle life ≥ 3500cycles 1C/1C, 100%DOD, 25℃, 300kgf pressure, 80% capacity retention."

I suppose that 3500 vs. 6000 or 8000 some claim is being conservative.
Maybe the 100% DOD has something to do with it.


1731382769291.png
 
I don't think those things are gonna hold if it has any bulging power. I've stripped those so many times with a screwdriver.

Actually, they are overkill. Especially if you use bar clamps to take the load off as you set the tension. Statically they can hold a lot of tension.

IMG_1639.jpeg
 
I was just using round numbers.

T in-lb = .2 * dia in * lb-force

T = 0.2 * .375 * 1573 = 117.975 in-lb = 9.8 ft-lb
I promise I'm trying not to be thick. If it was spread out among 4 bolts, would it be divided? Like 4x2lb springs in parallel would be 8lb
 
Emailed my steel shop about lead time of 8x 3/8 6061 aluminum plate 8”x16”. Hopefully they respond soon.
 
Emailed my steel shop about lead time of 8x 3/8 6061 aluminum plate 8”x16”. Hopefully they respond soon.
7075 is much stiffer but more expensive. My first build in 2021 used 1/4” for a bottom support with Kapton layers. That build used 1/16” VHB tape between the cells and taped around the outside. I wouldn’t tape them anymore knowing what I know now, but so far it’s been working fine in the bow of a Lund as a trolling battery. From what I’ve determined in relative stiffness by simple bending pieces by hand 6061, G10 then 7075. I found the G10 really cheap on Amazon and the 7075 on McMaster Carr.

IMG_1640.jpeg
 

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