diy solar

diy solar

Convert from FLA to LiFePo

FWIW to anyone that might be following along, these older WFCO all-in-one panels with converter/charger aren't capable of charging at 14.4 volts. I haven't been able to find out where that cutoff point might be in terms of the different models or year of production, but mine isn't going to work for my brand new battery and I'm not going to risk "trying it". I'll be investing in a modern capable charger so I can get the most out of my battery investment.
It might be helpful if you could clarify what you mean by "most" in this context. What do you mean by "work"? What performance parameter do you think is going to suffer if you don't purchase a "modern capable charger"? Why do you think 14.4v is so important, and what "risk" are you concerned about? Without that context nobody can tell you what sort of modern charger will do the trick.

Frankly, it sounds like you're mainly looking for a feeling rather than any concrete performance goal. And hey, your money your choice. Just realize what you're spending the money on and don't expect a technical forum to be super responsive to your emotions.

Because the technical truth is that charging the battery on the current charger then testing capacity is an entirely risk free proposition that may reveal the current charger is fine. It most certainly won't hurt lifepo4 to be charged at a lower voltage than 14.4, and likely extends the cycle life if you can give up a little capacity and/or charging speed.

Back to the emotions, Victron has a fantastic reputation and I'm sure the charger you're looking at would do fine. The 7 amp model would likely handle any real world situation you encounter, but you probably want a little more than that. And bluetooth is cool. I'm sure there are chargers with better graphics and more flashing lights, but if the Victron does it for you there's no need to look further.
 
Like I said, I trust the experts at Battle Born more than some of the advice I've gotten here. Now I'm regretting asking the question and using this forum. Shoulda known better.
 
Like I said, I trust the experts at Battle Born more than some of the advice I've gotten here. Now I'm regretting asking the question and using this forum. Shoulda known better.

You missed the absurdly non-scientific "white paper" they put out on comparing lead acid and LFP batteries in cold temperature. It was so flawed, it clearly illustrates that they are way better at marketing than anything scientific.

Ah... found it...

Read for yourself:


They completely ignored KNOWN data to distract from cold-temp LFP implications.
 
Like I said, I trust the experts at Battle Born more than some of the advice I've gotten here. Now I'm regretting asking the question and using this forum. Shoulda known better.
You need to filter out what advice is valid and what isn't. I called Battborn last January and for our use they didn't believe their batteries were appropriate. Battleborn now has a heated battery, so that advice might no longer be given.

I haven't regretted any question I've had here or other forums, but am tired of some of the anal hair-splitters. On the other hand, sometimes I just move on, but sometimes I decide to engage.

However, as far as I'm concerned this forum is at the top for accuracy, but one should never expect 100%.

Enjoy,

Perry
 
Like I said, I trust the experts at Battle Born more than some of the advice I've gotten here. Now I'm regretting asking the question and using this forum. Shoulda known better.
And like I said, you're chasing a feeling not a technical goal. And also like I said, if you expect this forum to ignore the technical details to suit your feelings you will be disappointed. And once again, like I said, go spend money to feel like you "did it right" and enjoy your upgraded trailer that will work great and cost a few hundred dollars more than it had to. It's your money, spend it however makes you happy.

Just don't be surprised when a bunch of DIY'ers have an answer other than to throw money at high end solutions to problems you can't really define. Yes, you shoulda known better.

It's always funny when people share their life story and then get upset when people make recommendations based on those details. Like, if you'd already decided the existing charger was crap why even mention it to begin with? Why make people read through all that if you don't intend for them to use it making a recommendation? Just say "Hey, I'm putting a Lifepo4 in a teardrop and need to charge it from shore power. What should I get?"
 
And like I said, you're chasing a feeling not a technical goal. And also like I said, if you expect this forum to ignore the technical details to suit your feelings you will be disappointed. And once again, like I said, go spend money to feel like you "did it right" and enjoy your upgraded trailer that will work great and cost a few hundred dollars more than it had to. It's your money, spend it however makes you happy.
You have no idea what I'm chasing. Why don't you pose this as a question rather than coming off as a know-it-all a$$hat?

Just say "Hey, I'm putting a Lifepo4 in a teardrop and need to charge it from shore power. What should I get?"
That's pretty much what I said, in different words. How you interpret it, I have no control over. You should get over yourself and maybe consider approaching community groups like this with curiosity rather than judgement. And if you can resist that uncontrollable urge, you can not bother to reply.
 
You have no idea what I'm chasing. Why don't you pose this as a question rather than coming off as a know-it-all a$$hat?


That's pretty much what I said, in different words. How you interpret it, I have no control over. You should get over yourself and maybe consider approaching community groups like this with curiosity rather than judgement. And if you can resist that uncontrollable urge, you can not bother to reply.
Perhaps you sense 'judgement' when I mention emotions? That's your own values speaking not mine. 90% of the world is driven by emotions, and I've long ago foregone condemning people for it. But some people behave emotionally yet highly value rationality, and when someone calls attention to the disconnect cognitive dissonance kicks in to take offense.

As far as curiosity... you've been quite dismissive of the feedback in this thread and only expressed learning that this forum is full of bad advice. Since you want questions instead of statements, do you think that demonstrates a curious approach to the community?
 
Perhaps you sense 'judgement' when I mention emotions? That's your own values speaking not mine. 90% of the world is driven by emotions, and I've long ago foregone condemning people for it. But some people behave emotionally yet highly value rationality, and when someone calls attention to the disconnect cognitive dissonance kicks in to take offense.

As far as curiosity... you've been quite dismissive of the feedback in this thread and only expressed learning that this forum is full of bad advice. Since you want questions instead of statements, do you think that demonstrates a curious approach to the community?
I see the person losing my respect is you, Blackhat, and you've provided no worthwhile input. I certainly don't read elewis's posts as negatively as you. You've made your point and so has elewis33. How about both of you move on.

Perry
 
If your FLA charge system does equalization or de-sulfating mode, it's generally for a limited duration, of 15 minutes to 2 hours, at 15.2 to 15.8 volts. From what I've read here, that's a big no-no for lifepo.

OTOH, IOTA chargers do this every 28 days, I think Progressive Dynamics does it every 7 days. So if you're not going to leave your rig plugged in for long-term, it may not be an issue. Or some you can switch to a different profile that doesn't have equalization mode. The standard charge profile is probably fine for lifepo.

PowerMax has a new 2-stage lithium-focused converter series - introduced up thread in the mobile section here. If you're replacing your charging source for shorepower or genset, it may well serve your needs. (y)
 
The original poster already has a system that will work. They have a Victron IP67 charger!

Just buy the cable with ring connectors to securely connect to the battery- disable the old converter in the teardrop, and mount the IP67 somewhere convenient. You are done.

With the Victron connect app you can control the charger (if you want to) and also see the watts/amps that are charging the battery.

By buying a cable to attach to the teardrop, if you need to use the charger for something else - it will be easy!

Have fun and good luck!
 
I installed LiFePo in my Toy hauler, using the original WFCO panel to charge it is practically useless. I have both Lead acid and LiFePo batteries installed with a separate charger.

@elewis33 - what size battery are you putting in the trailer and how low will you discharge it.
Will you charge it daily or after camping.
 
I installed LiFePo in my Toy hauler, using the original WFCO panel to charge it is practically useless. I have both Lead acid and LiFePo batteries installed with a separate charger.

@elewis33 - what size battery are you putting in the trailer and how low will you discharge it.
Will you charge it daily or after camping.

Seems to me Progressive Dynamics has a plug-in conversion charging unit for the WFCO panel that is lifepo compatible.
 
If you’re going to use that progressive Dynamics or other plug in charger, just check the voltages. Even though there is a switch labeled lithium on my Aims 120 VAC to 12/24 DC converter, I much prefer the gel setting. 14.6 is max Lithium charge, but that takes it to the max of 3.65 per cell, and the LIthium setting is 14.4. No matter the setting, the float voltage is too high for me, so when I finish my install, this will only be turned on when the unit gets turned on when weather is bad and I can’t charge.714D5BE9-E98E-4021-AA62-E8C7E718FE51.jpeg
I had a converter that came with the RV. charged at 10 amps and 13.6 volts. 10 amps can take a long time to fill a bank up after using 167 amp hours when there is no sun. I would have been happy with that for a lithium charger had I not upgraded to 24 volts.
 
If you’re going to use that progressive Dynamics or other plug in charger, just check the voltages. Even though there is a switch labeled lithium on my Aims 120 VAC to 12/24 DC converter, I much prefer the gel setting. 14.6 is max Lithium charge, but that takes it to the max of 3.65 per cell, and the LIthium setting is 14.4. No matter the setting, the float voltage is too high for me, so when I finish my install, this will only be turned on when the unit gets turned on when weather is bad and I can’t charge.View attachment 76587
I had a converter that came with the RV. charged at 10 amps and 13.6 volts. 10 amps can take a long time to fill a bank up after using 167 amp hours when there is no sun. I would have been happy with that for a lithium charger had I not upgraded to 24 volts.

The AIMS never switches to a float level for lifepo? That's odd. I assume you've measured/tested to confirm. Or is it possible that's a typo?
Most of these charger/converter type units have a one-volt drop from bulk to float.

I got my new PowerMax 2-stage lifepo unit installed, it's 14.6 for 8 hours or until battery is fully charge, then drops a volt to float. I put it on a switched outlet anyway, so I can turn it off if I don't needed it when plugged into shorepower. It's 55A so will be handy for running the generator for a quick charge on a cold and cloudy day.
 
I use the WFCO to charge my trolling motor battery. I have a switch to go from LA to Li battery. I use a separate PD 60 amp charger for the Li battery. The WFCO sees the Li battery voltage of 13.2 as a charged battery and only supplies varying 1-2 amps charge.
To get 15 amps (most I've gotten even at 30% discharge) it goes down rapidly.
 
That's odd. I assume you've measured/tested to confirm. Or is it possible that's a typo?
I have not installed this converter. Just finished a 24 volt upgrade today, but the converter was received bad and was sent back to Aims and am awaiting a replacevent. Until then, I’m only using solar to recharge.

What is the best converter for Lithiums has a couple good threads. My conclusion is none is made for both float and absorbtion, so I will only charge with mine And shut it off when done.

Last I looked at progressive dynamics, there was a model that you could adjust voltage to whatever you want. That was a constant voltage so would not go to a lower float voltage. Iota makes a converter you can buy a lithium card for, but again did not meet a good profile. I went with the AIMS because that is the highest charging amps available that you could still use 110 volts for.
 
Sorry, fat fingers...
I get 15 amps from the WFCO when I first plug in to shore power for about 10 mins at 30% discharge then it goes down rapidly.
 
Here's my thread on the new PowerMax converter/charger unit specifically for lifepo:

I haven't tried it out on a lifepo yet - got notice today my cells are shipping. I have two concerns - one is if the 14.6 bulk voltage trips over-voltage on the BMS, and second if the cooling fan on the charger becomes annoying. I hooked it up to my FLA's and it works great, but the cooling fan does kick on when it's charging. Not too intrusive, but I never heard my IOTA one iota in over ten years of use. :LOL:

I'm glad I installed a switch to turn off the outlet it's plugged into.
 
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