Crazy generator idea, or maybe not?

[Watts Happening]

It doesn’t seem like there is an amazing value generator wise when considering price, noise, fuel consumption, output etc.

Is it crazy to think a Honda engine in the b/d/f/h/k series sitting on a simple metal stand and connected to a belt driven power head would provide all of the above? Generally a D-series motor has been cheap and readily available and provides plenty of power for a 10-15kw power head essentially at idle.

Advantages being insane reliability, water cooling, quiet operation, low fuel consumption at a low RPM and readily available parts.

Where am I going wrong? I figure something like this in a shed would be a solid choice, especially if you can just wait for a great deal to come along.

 

[dcg9381]

Where am I going wrong?

I see power heads on PTOs for tractors. I assume there is a 2x gear advance on them to swing the power head.


The issue you're going to run into is that you need 3600 rpm for direct drive applications - Pretty sure the Honda's are making fractional power at that point. You'll also need to govern the power to keep it at 3600 rpm.

 

[jimf909]

I know a VW mechanic who did this with a VW motor, I believe a 1.8 gasser, he's entirely off-grid. I've been meaning to get in touch with him because my old Perkins diesel (403D-11) has 18.5K hours on it and it will need replacement and I'd like to hear more about his solution. Old 4-cyl auto engines are 1/10th the cost of a 3 cylinder water cooled diesel ($500 compared to $5K) but seem like they could serve the task well and possibly be quite a bit quieter. As for repair, parts are readily available or replacement motors are readily available. A belt drive will require some consideration for plenty of belt for traction for all the torque without too much stress on the bearing.

I don't think this is a crazy idea at all.

 

[farmhand]

I see power heads on PTOs for tractors. I assume there is a 2x gear advance on them to swing the power head.


The issue you're going to run into is that you need 3600 rpm for direct drive applications - Pretty sure the Honda's are making fractional power at that point. You'll also need to govern the power to keep it at 3600 rpm.

Some Beachy have this set up dual belt driving a 1"x36" shaft with different sized pulleys for changing what RPMs they need. Most have a 120v gen, an alternator, and sometime several refrigerant compressors. All analog electrically controlled and I doubt all at once loll.

Beachys are very common in Perry county to have 12-18w of solar, then have a champion generator mounted to a slab. The controls are wired into the kitchen, so if the wife needs more power she just hits the switch. Most run on propane or welled ng.

I did near the same when I installed such a champion for a widow on the hill, who couldn't afford an auto standby. Just with a panel interlock.

I also Linda copied this in out cabin by putting the utility/off/solar switch in the kitchen, and the panels on the coop are seen outside the kitchen windows as well by no design lol.

Good luck on your design ?

 

[Supervstech]

Heck, why not get the whole car, remove a tire from a drive wheel, and put the belt on there, then set the cruise control to maintain rpm...

 

[Nobodybusiness]

I see power heads on PTOs for tractors. I assume there is a 2x gear advance on them to swing the power head.


The issue you're going to run into is that you need 3600 rpm for direct drive applications - Pretty sure the Honda's are making fractional power at that point. You'll also need to govern the power to keep it at 3600 rpm.

You need 3600 RPM for a 2 pole generator and 1800 RPM for a 4 pole.

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

"amazing value" ... eye of the beholder?

I found value in an inexpensive ($1000) westinghouse wgen9500df, running on propane ... I keep two on hand for insane reliability. all kinds of nifty features (elec start, auto-choke, smart port for ATS, etc.) ... for me, beats out $5k generac or Honda inverter-gen (but, that's just me). I maintain these myself ...

No complexity of any kind ... it just works. If I were to go further, I'd stick these in a small sound-proofed shed, with many youtube vids on how to do it.

There might be some who can recreate *all* of the value I currently have, out of a collection of parts ...

I can string together OTS products ... can't recreate them from scratch and hope to keep the remaining hair on my head.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Heck, why not get the whole car, remove a tire from a drive wheel, and put the belt on there, then set the cruise control to maintain rpm...

Beat me to it! Haha

 

[jimf909]

"amazing value" ... eye of the beholder?

I found value in an inexpensive ($1000) westinghouse wgen9500df, running on propane ... I keep two on hand for insane reliability. all kinds of nifty features (elec start, auto-choke, smart port for ATS, etc.) ... for me, beats out $5k generac or Honda inverter-gen (but, that's just me). I maintain these myself ...

No complexity of any kind ... it just works. If I were to go further, I'd stick these in a small sound-proofed shed, with many youtube vids on how to do it.

There might be some who can recreate *all* of the value I currently have, out of a collection of parts ...

I can string together OTS products ... can't recreate them from scratch and hope to keep the remaining hair on my head.

This is one of the options I'm considering for the generator that will replace my water-cooled diesel 7kW genset (a tired Perkins diesel with 18K hours driving a marathon alternator). I bought a 6kW Genmax inverter/generator which has been fine for 350 hours (bought on amazon, received a full refund when the display and remote start failed so it was free).

The options under consideration:
- replace the Perkins diesel motor, $5-$6K (rebuilding isn't a viable option because a rebuild would cost as much or more than a new motor).
- replace the diesel genset with something similar, $7-$9K
- run a series of inexpensive $1K generators similar to the example above
- DIY a genset using a 4 cylinder car engine as suggested by the OP

Advantages to the diesel will be another 15-20 years of trouble-free operation with simple maintenance every 500 hours. It's about as set-and-forget as is possible with a generator.

The $1K generator solution has low entry cost (my first generator was free!) and eventual redundancy but will require some trouble shooting over time. I'd prefer to have a two-wire auto start but the ATS solution is workable.

The DIY solution offers the fun of assembling the parts and making it work. It would take the most mindspace which is fine if I want to make it a project.

It'll be interesting to see if anyone chimes in with DIY generators.

 

[dcg9381]

This is one of the options I'm considering for the generator that will replace my water-cooled diesel 7kW genset (a tired Perkins diesel with 18K hours driving a marathon alternator). I bought a 6kW Genmax inverter/generator which has been fine for 350 hours (bought on amazon, received a full refund when the display and remote start failed so it was free).

Shop around, stay away from winter and hurricane season. Lots of deals to be had on used generators... Moving 'em can be a problem, but that's also why they tend to not resell well.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

This is one of the options I'm considering for the generator that will replace my water-cooled diesel 7kW genset (a tired Perkins diesel with 18K hours driving a marathon alternator).

18,000 hours? You sure got your money out of that one..

 

[Samsonite801]

Heck, why not get the whole car, remove a tire from a drive wheel, and put the belt on there, then set the cruise control to maintain rpm...

I just use my 2018 Prius directly, no mods needed accept to add the DC tap into the HV battery to hook my APS UPS inverter up to it. 6 KW power, hardly notice the car running, even shuts off the engine occasionally.

It's like a big inverter generator. The only disadvantage is that you cannot use your car while it's being a generator. I was thinking to buy another wrecked Prius to just leave parked here for dedicated gen use, so I don't have to tie up my real car.

It doesn't really matter though, ever since I got the solar panels going, I rarely ever need a generator anymore, except to start a big electric motor (bigger than my RV's 2800w inverter can handle).

Once I get my four LV6548s wired in along with my 40 KWh of battery set up, I will probably never need the generator anymore accept for really dark cloudy weather that lingers for days...

 

[50ShadesOfDirt]

Nobody told me we are all replacing our standby's and portable gen's with cars ...

If this is the case, then I want one of those old jeeps with the secondary PTO ... should be able to generate power, do laundry, whatever the PTO shaft/belt will hook up to ... plus, it will still start after the apocalypse ...

 

[Daveyclimber]

Diesel generator deals are out there if you know where to look. I bought a pair of 7.5kw kubota powered gensets, each had 100 hours on them. 240/120v 12v start, pancake heads, remote start. One was $1200 and the other was $1800.
Another unit I bought for $800 is a 6kw kubota powered, brand new, 120v only, 24v start and included a espar coolant heater.
Got them from govplanet.com

 

[Warpspeed]

It doesn’t seem like there is an amazing value generator wise when considering price, noise, fuel consumption, output etc.

Is it crazy to think a Honda engine in the b/d/f/h/k series sitting on a simple metal stand and connected to a belt driven power head would provide all of the above? Generally a D-series motor has been cheap and readily available and provides plenty of power for a 10-15kw power head essentially at idle.

Advantages being insane reliability, water cooling, quiet operation, low fuel consumption at a low RPM and readily available parts.

Where am I going wrong? I figure something like this in a shed would be a solid choice, especially if you can just wait for a great deal to come along.

This is an excellent idea. All of the above plus electric start.

I built a home brew Frankenstein generator out of old junk using a Wisconsin air cooled engine and added electric start and a 12v alternator, plus belt drive to a dc generator for battery charging. I learnt a lot from that exercise, what works and what does not work very well.

Noise, taken seriously definitely requires a water cooled engine and a super sized muffler. A multi cylinder car engine running at low rpm could be made almost silent. Pulley drive to a dc generator for battery charging is the way to go. It then only might need to run for a very short time each day.
A 50/60Hz direct ac generator has to run ALL the time you require power.

If you have natural gas available, you never need to refuel. Just check the oil occasionally, and it will then run forever all by itself.

The way to build a truly silent exhaust muffler is to find a really large old compressed air pressure vessel. These usually have walls of at least 1/4 inch thick steel, and by law, an inspection hole. Remove the inspection cover and stuff the whole thing completely full of fiberglass wool. The exhaust exit hole at the opposirte end to the entry needs to be made quite small.

In fact it can be made so small it just hisses gently, and the engine still runs fine. The whole thing will be very large, very heavy, and very ugly, but it will completely eliminate any exhaust noise. The exhaust muffler is by far the most impressive feature of my Frankenstein generator, and is definitely one of my better experiments. These pressure vessels vary between small and enormous. The bigger the better.....

I bought a large blown up air compressor for scrap value, removed the dead compressor, and mounted my engine and generator in place of the original compressor and (missing) three phase motor, on top of the air tank. A pretty straight forward conversion.

 

[Ampster]

It may depend on where you are. In California with rates being what they are batteries offer an opportunity to arbitrage rate differentials. That can create an actual return on investment which can further justify or at least subsidize the cost of a backup. Generators can not arbitrage rates and they have operating costs greater than batteries.

 

[jimf909]

18,000 hours? You sure got your money out of that one..

Yeah, it's a diesel used for ag/industrial uses. I'm told they run irrigation pumps, transmitters, etc. and are meant to run 24/7 forever. 18K hours actually sounds like an abbreviated lifespan but this diesel was run at low loads (about 25%-30% capacity) meaning it never ran hot enough which carbons up the heads. I acquired it later in it's life.

Pekins 403D-11 is what I have:

https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/products/new/perkins/electric-power-generation/certified-models/1000002638.html

The genset looks like this:

Perkins 7 kW Diesel Generator {164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}{164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}sep{164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}{164d91bb941ceeef98

Value Plus (VP) 7 kW diesel generators powered by Perkins engines for years of dependable service. Free shipping on Perkins 7-30 kW models. Great pricing!

hardydiesel.com

Perkins 10,000 Watt Diesel Generator

Consumption is roughly 1/2 - 3/4 gph.

The attraction is its long term durability and use of diesel fuel.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Yeah, it's a diesel used for ag/industrial uses. I'm told they run irrigation pumps, transmitters, etc. and are meant to run 24/7 forever. 18K hours actually sounds like an abbreviated lifespan but this diesel was run at low loads (about 25%-30% capacity) meaning it never ran hot enough which carbons up the heads. I acquired it later in it's life.

Pekins 403D-11 is what I have:

https://www.perkins.com/en_GB/products/new/perkins/electric-power-generation/certified-models/1000002638.html

The genset looks like this:

Perkins 7 kW Diesel Generator {164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}{164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}sep{164d91bb941ceeef982093d77ec20a7bed90f0c330f4b2713f15f0133a0f1aa3}{164d91bb941ceeef98

Value Plus (VP) 7 kW diesel generators powered by Perkins engines for years of dependable service. Free shipping on Perkins 7-30 kW models. Great pricing!

hardydiesel.com

Perkins 10,000 Watt Diesel Generator

Consumption is roughly 1/2 - 3/4 gph.

The attraction is its long term durability and use of diesel fuel.

Yea they get wet stacked at low usage but still an impressive amount of hours by today’s standards.

 

[Watts Happening]

I suppose I should clarify after seeing multiple answers.

The idea of this proposed generator is to charge a battery bank, not to power a house.

 

[Samsonite801]

I suppose I should clarify after seeing multiple answers.

The idea of this proposed generator is to charge a battery bank, not to power a house.

Might as well throw this in there too then... I had it in my bookmarks from a long time ago... Was curious about it myself:

DC direct generator: https://dcautogen.com/product/v5-autogen-48v-dc-generator-charger/
(they have a cool video on there too, pasting video link below too)

Video from site:

Bonus video:

Or if you go the AC-to-DC route, I did see that EG4 now sells a 100a 48v battery charger too, my neighbor bought one, they look cool too...