Crimp battery and inverter cables without special tools $0

[PVorBust]

You can use some shrink tube to make it air tight.

Standard heatshrink is great for a lot of things - reducing fatigue, identification, insulation etc. But if you want it to be waterproof, the you need the glue lined heatshrink. This stuff is tough and provides a lot of protection above standard heatshrink.

An alternative is 'liquid insulation tape' that can be painted on.

Medium wall glue lined heatshrink | Wattmaster Alco

HEATSHRINK MED WALL 51.4-15.8mm LINED

www.wattmaster.com.au

Liquid Electrical Tape/Thread Locker - Black | Jaycar Electronics

This liquid can be used instead of insulation tape. Simply brush it on and it will insulate and seal out moisture.

www.jaycar.com.au

 

[Tomthumb62]

You can use some shrink tube to make it air tight.

This is a great idea! I was planning on doing so anyways, but I never thought about (marine grade/glue lined) heat shrink helping keep moisture and air out.

Update to my original post. While my redneck crimp job got the job done, I won't be doing it again. I borrowed a type of hydraulic crimp tool, the thing was massive, but it wasn't the right kind for making good crimps. So I have a hammer crimper coming in the mail. Which to the pros on this thread, is far inferior to a hex-style crimper, and I agree, but it's far superior to any of the soldering or crimping I've done so far. If I were wiring up for my home I lived in, I would certainly just buy the $37-70 tool to do it the best way.

But if you want it to be waterproof, the you need the glue lined heatshrink. This stuff is tough and provides a lot of protection above standard heatshrink.

Yes. I am finding that it depends upon the application. If it's a situation where I think I might want to remove the heat shrink, I use the regular non-gluey stuff. That glue leaves a sticky mess behind (not to mention being much more expensive).

 

[AlanH]

Standard heatshrink is great for a lot of things - reducing fatigue, identification, insulation etc. But if you want it to be waterproof, the you need the glue lined heatshrink. This stuff is tough and provides a lot of protection above standard heatshrink.

An alternative is 'liquid insulation tape' that can be painted on.

Medium wall glue lined heatshrink | Wattmaster Alco

HEATSHRINK MED WALL 51.4-15.8mm LINED

www.wattmaster.com.au

Liquid Electrical Tape/Thread Locker - Black | Jaycar Electronics

This liquid can be used instead of insulation tape. Simply brush it on and it will insulate and seal out moisture.

www.jaycar.com.au

amalgam tape is what we used for satellite work.

 

[AlanH]

I have a ratchet crimping tool which works very good. Im struggling with the thought that a soldered joint isnt as good as a crimp. More contact area with solder.

 

[Risky Rob]

I have a ratchet crimping tool which works very good. Im struggling with the thought that a soldered joint isnt as good as a crimp. More contact area with solder.

If you solder, crimp first. Tin the copper wire and use rosin flux.

 

[PVorBust]

I have a ratchet crimping tool which works very good. Im struggling with the thought that a soldered joint isnt as good as a crimp. More contact area with solder.

A "good" crimp is significantly better than soldering as described above, but a gotcha for soldering is the solder wicks up the filaments making it very stiff. The point the solder stops acts as a sharp stress concentrator that can easily become the fracture point.

amalgam tape is what we used for satellite work.

Also good!
I've used my share on antenna feed lines too.
It's a lovely sight when you pull apart an antenna feed that's been out in the weather for 20 years and the connectors are still dry and bright.

 

[AlanH]

If you solder, crimp first. Tin the copper wire and use rosin flux.

Why crimp first though Rob? Are you guys saying solder has poor conductivity?

 

[AlanH]

A "good" crimp is significantly better than soldering as described above, but a gotcha for soldering is the solder wicks up the filaments making it very stiff. The point the solder stops acts as a sharp stress concentrator that can easily become the fracture point.


Also good!
I've used my share on antenna feed lines too.
It's a lovely sight when you pull apart an antenna feed that's been out in the weather for 20 years and the connectors are still dry and bright.

PV, has this actually been proven? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not calling you guys out, just that to me there is complete contact area with a soldered joint. I struggle to see that a crimp would have the same contact area as say the wire itself.

 

[AlanH]

Ok, so I did some research. The consensus is crimp is better if the right crimp tool is used. Whith that said, I couldn’t find anywhere a statement made that said a crimp had the same or lower resistance to solder!

Cheers guys.

 

[PVorBust]

I have to admit I was also skeptical when I was first told crimping was better, but when you realise all automotive, aviation and military connections require crimp connections in most applications, it does look convincing.

The consensus is crimp is better if the right crimp tool is used.

That of course is a problem - I've lost count of the different crimping tools I have. From very fine ribbon cable though MC4's up to 70mm ^2

 

[AlanH]

I have to admit I was also skeptical when I was first told crimping was better, but when you realise all automotive, aviation and military connections require crimp connections in most applications, it does look convincing.

That of course is a problem - I've lost count of the different crimping tools I have. From very fine ribbon cable though MC4's up to 70mm ^2

PV, has anyone done a resistance test between the two?

When it comes down to the likes of the automotive field, from what I understand, its more about durability.

 

[Risky Rob]

Why crimp first though Rob? Are you guys saying solder has poor conductivity?

Try both ways, and let us know.

 

[Texas-Mark]

As for solder, it works until it doesn't.

This^^^^^ Especially for large cables.

 

[Tomthumb62]

This^^^^^ Especially for large cables.

Which was my problem in this case! I have only a little soldering experience, usually with 14-22AWG, not pretty, but it worked and no oxidation. With 1AWG, I had to use a torch and I may have had the wrong flux and I think I over heated the cable and well what happened is we were getting inverter shutdowns and bad voltage sags in the battery. Not sure if the sags were all due to a bad cable, but when I removed the 1AWG cables that had been solders, I cut off the oxidized part. And kept cutting and kept cutting. I cut off about 3 inches before I gave up and deemed that there was no good cable left in it. Never again!

 

[Risky Rob]

Which was my problem in this case! I have only a little soldering experience, usually with 14-22AWG, not pretty, but it worked and no oxidation. With 1AWG, I had to use a torch and I may have had the wrong flux and I think I over heated the cable and well what happened is we were getting inverter shutdowns and bad voltage sags in the battery. Not sure if the sags were all due to a bad cable, but when I removed the 1AWG cables that had been solders, I cut off the oxidized part. And kept cutting and kept cutting. I cut off about 3 inches before I gave up and deemed that there was no good cable left in it. Never again!

So you actually saw black residue on the copper cable, maybe from acid flux?

 

[FoxProPowa5]

Back in my car audio days, I'd only buy the open end copper ring terminals, crimp with a bench vice, solder the very end of the cable to the terminal, then heat shrink and loom all cables. Never had one fail. I don't trust the closed end types. You're better off going to a pawn shop and getting 4 or 1/0 AWG terminals made for audio systems than DIY crap on Amazon.

 

[Browneye]

A Temco hammer-crimper is like $25. I consider that the very minimum. Two screws and a hammer isn't it. And you don't know what kind of crimp quality you're getting unless you cut it open, or put into service and measure resistance and heat. I get the shade-tree DIY angle for sure, I'm a master at it. Some things you just don't want to cut corners on, and cable lugs is one of them.

I cut a couple of my test crimps to verify a good cold-weld:

 

[Tomthumb62]

So you actually saw black residue on the copper cable, maybe from acid flux?

Yes. Last week I tried to clean the cable, using the vinegar+salt trick followed by a dunking in baking soda water. Lots of green powder came out of the cable. It looked much better and perhaps if I had removed all the insulation and cleaned all the strands better and then re-wrapped, I could've saved it, but not worth it and probably only a short-term fix anyways. Plus the new cables from Current Connected are NICE, extremely flexible for 1/0awg compared to the stiff 1awg I was using before. I only wish I had instead ordered a 2' red and 1' red instead of the 3' red, because then I wouldn't be in this crimping situation to need to cut the 3' and install lugs to install the inline ANL fuse. Wasn't thinking clearly, was reacting to stress instead of thinking it all through.

Like others have said, it might've been acid flux. Someone said it's not common anymore, but you might fight it in grandpa's garage. Which was where I found the flux, lol! Next time I'm over there, I will see if I can find it again and see if it's an acid flux or not.

 

[Tomthumb62]

A Temco hammer-crimper is like $25. I consider that the very minimum. Two screws and a hammer isn't it. And you don't know what kind of crimp quality you're getting unless you cut it open, or put into service and measure resistance and heat. I get the shade-tree DIY angle for sure, I'm a master at it. Some things you just don't want to cut corners on, and cable lugs is one of them.

I cut a couple of my test crimps to verify a good cold-weld:

Thanks for the photos and sacrificing at a lug (things aren't cheap lol). That does look nice. Budget is very tight right now, hence cutting corners. I took your advice and others and won't be doing the redneck hammer crimp again. I did borrow a hydraulic crimp tool, but it wasn't the hex style and simple made some pretty poor crimps, compared to yours. So I have one of the real hammer crimp tools coming - won't be as good as a hex crimp and probably won't get a cold weld like yours - but it will be head and tails beyond anything I've crimped so far. And sealed with marine grade adhesive heat shrink.

I'll edit my OP to warn people not to what I did.

 

[Browneye]

There are advocates for 'die-less' crimping - because if the die doesn't fit exactly right it could be too tight causing ridges or deformation, or worse - too loose. The exact die, or a die matching your lugs, like you might get from Temco, is sure a great way to go, if not the most costly as well. If I was doing a lot of this type of work I would surely have the fancy Temco one with all the dies and their matching lugs. For a one-off, their hammer crimper does a nice job - hammer the crap out of it, it welds it. LOL And yes on the adhesive lined 3M shrink tubing - the only way to go for this stuff.

I also came to realize that many, if not most, tinned lugs are open, whereas the copper ones were closed. Frankly I like the closed end, and with a shrink wrap on there they are well sealed.

There are advocates for soldering, but there are just too many cons, not to mention the 'work hardening' that happens where the soldered strands meet the unsoldered strands in the wire, in a mobile application. AFAIK aircraft and military assembly requires everything to be crimped.

I did break down and buy a nicer wire terminal crimper - one of those ratcheting ones, and actual 3M terminals. There IS a difference in quality verses the china imports. The plastic insulator (pvc?) is better, and the terminal itself is of very slightly thicker material. They're just a lot nicer terminals. I've been getting by all these years with a cheapo pair of stamped metal crimpers and the cheapest crap terminals available. No more!

 

[Tomthumb62]

There are advocates for 'die-less' crimping - because if the die doesn't fit exactly right it could be too tight causing ridges or deformation, or worse - too loose. The exact die, or a die matching your lugs, like you might get from Temco, is sure a great way to go, if not the most costly as well. If I was doing a lot of this type of work I would surely have the fancy Temco one with all the dies and their matching lugs. For a one-off, their hammer crimper does a nice job - hammer the crap out of it, it welds it. LOL And yes on the adhesive lined 3M shrink tubing - the only way to go for this stuff.

I also came to realize that many, if not most, tinned lugs are open, whereas the copper ones were closed. Frankly I like the closed end, and with a shrink wrap on there they are well sealed.

There are advocates for soldering, but there are just too many cons, not to mention the 'work hardening' that happens where the soldered strands meet the unsoldered strands in the wire, in a mobile application. AFAIK aircraft and military assembly requires everything to be crimped.

I did break down and buy a nicer wire terminal crimper - one of those ratcheting ones, and actual 3M terminals. There IS a difference in quality verses the china imports. The plastic insulator (pvc?) is better, and the terminal itself is of very slightly thicker material. They're just a lot nicer terminals. I've been getting by all these years with a cheapo pair of stamped metal crimpers and the cheapest crap terminals available. No more!

I just ordered a set of hex dies for $17 free shipping. I'll use them in my wife's mini hydraulic press (you put a standard 10 ton hydraulic jack in it). One review said he preferred a sledge and anvil approach. I'll post a review once I give them a try.

The closed end lugs I bought from Current Connected are tinned. I really don't have much an opinion either way on open vs closed. It's starting to sound like which is better - Republican or Democrat? LOL. I may have my strong opinion - and it's not as one-sided as you might think, as both versions have pros and cons.

 

[AlanH]

I have been twirling my cable to get them into the lug. Yeah, nah?

As with soldering, Ive been soldering all my 50A Anderson plugs. I havent had any failures. They are years old!

 

[Don B. Cilly]

Thing is, pretty much anybody can crimp - given a half-decent tool.
Not many people can solder properly - or know what materials to use.
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[AlanH]

Guys, joining two wires! Solder?

 

[Don B. Cilly]

Big wires, I do. I use a small length of copper tube, soak both the wires and the tube with (proper) solder, insert the ends, give it a few bangs with a cold chisel - on wood, heat with blow torch, give it a few more bangs.
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