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diy solar

Current cell prices/quotes

gibbygoodtunes said:
Hey forum, I just got a quote all in USD from Amy at luyuan and Jenny wu from Docan.

Amy says:

About the (eve) 280AH, we have two grades to choose from (both are the new version LF280K, brand new, in stock):

Grade A: fully matched, with the test data from the original factory. Its price has risen a lot, $167 / pcs

Grade A- : Its internal resistance and voltage are matched, the capacity is not. We tested the real capacity of some batteries, at 276-284AH. $107 / pcs**

When EVE tests grade A batteries, if some batteries do not meet the specifications (for example, the capacity is insufficient or there are some tiny defects in appearance, they will pick them out. These batteries are A-.


Jenny wu @ docan says:

(8) pcs EVE LF280K brand new IR, voltage and capacity matched
$110 per cell

So its sounds like Amys grade A "expensive cells" are brand new from the factory with test data for each cell? Are her A- cells as good as or the same thing as Docans grade A cells? In general it seems people are happy with Docans cells.. does anyone have experience with Luyuan's A- cells?

Edited to add price of A- cells
Click to expand...
Wow, amazing! $167 so high price!
 
No sure where to best post this. I bought my cells (52 x 272Ah Lishen) from Shenzen Basen on 31Dec20 DDP to France (98day delivery) USD 4691.00 DDP to France. . I'm happy enough with the 2 packs I had installed (remotely from Australia) with 24 cells each for 816AH x 24V nominal. Used Electrodacus SBMS0 BMS with Victron Quattro Inverter/Charger and Battery Protect for DC Load/charging control.

I'm often asked a bit by others what to recommend. I still feel very uncomfortable about the trust level from various providers and what exactly to say. My head spins re various Grades, manufacturers and resellers. I have several questions ? Many technical, some just commercial. By manufacturer below I refer to known companies like EVE, Lishen, CATL, CALB, Winston etc.

1. It seems very few buy small quantities direct from a manufacturer ?

2. What do the manufacturers test after manufacturing ? Internal Resistance, and Capacity at a std charge/discharge rate and temperature ?

3. Is inital SEI layer charging done ? or does the initial manufacturer capacity test qualify as this ?

4. Do manufacturers do a capacity test on all individual manufactured cells ? At what charge/discharge rate ? Would they keep a record of individual QR code manufacturing test ?

5. Do manufacturers do above testing with compression ?

6. If a new cell is capacity tested without compression is bloating likely ? Does it indicate quality difference in cells ? Does a bloated cell have significantly reduced lifespan from a single 'bloat' case? Can bloating be reversed ?

7. What exactly is "matched" by manufacturers ? "Batched" ?

8. Are cells normally manufactured with the blue plastic film on ? Why do some 'resellers' claim to apply that themselves ? (as shenzen Basen claimed to do with my cells, and Battleborn video's show them doing)

9. Is the QR code on most batteries done by original manufacturer ? What about cells that fail initial IR test and/or Capacity test ? Are reputable resellers replacing QR codes? to hide initial manufacturer ID and test results ?

10. Do they just 'grade' them into batches ? Is a batch of 272AH cells, likely just some 280AH cells that failed capacity tests a bit ? Apart from a slightly lower capacity (how much ? 5%?) what is the other difference (Internal Resistance ?). Is a static IR test indicative of a significant issue with a cell ?

11. What happens if cells of similar tested capacity have significant IR difference in a pack ? Whats considered a significant IR difference ? Eg: EVE 280AH quote < 25mOhm IR. Lishen 272AH quote AC-impedance(1000Hz) 0.12±0.05mΩ. Is lower IR better ? or is consistency more important ? Is heat at high amps the main impact of IR ?

12. There are many 'rumors' about resellers selling 2nd hand cells. How to identify ? Are significant supplies coming as 2nd hand ? Clearly any reseller selling 2nd hand cells without clearly identifying them as so should be avoided at almost any cost. Have we reports of any proven cases ?

13. Apart from 2nd hand cells, and bloated cells, what is indicative of a lower lifespan than usual for a specific cell type ? Eg: if one cell has double the IR of others is it likely to have lower lifespan ?

14. What other outcomes are expected from non ‘Grade A’ cells in a pack ?
 
sunshine_eggo said:
"Grade A" means that all cells must pass all datasheet parameters. 280Ah cells will test at or above 280Ah if truly grade A.

Docan's $110 IR, V and cap matched cells claim to offer the same as Luyuan $167 cells.
Click to expand...

All grade A cells from EVE come with test results. It doesn't cost extra, and it's a lot more than touching it with an IR meter.
If the vendor doesn't have EVE test results..........
Well, there must be a reason.
 
Just John said:
All grade A cells from EVE come with test results. It doesn't cost extra, and it's a lot more than touching it with an IR meter.
If the vendor doesn't have EVE test results..........
Well, there must be a reason.
Click to expand...

No disagreement. I do not believe that I was sold true grade A cells; however, I'm happy with the value of the cells I received.
 
sunshine_eggo said:
No disagreement. I do not believe that I was sold true grade A cells; however, I'm happy with the value of the cells I received.
Click to expand...
I agree, the value of many "not grade A" cells is superior for our use cases. As long as they are not used and abused cells, they are very good for our use case (low C rates). The true grade A cells are intended for things like buses and cars, where high C rates and matching cell curves are really necessary. Generally speaking, you should keep/size your system for .2C or below, and you will be quite happy with the majority of the cells sold. This means try to keep your draw for the 280AH cells below 56 amps (40 amps is very easily obtained and generally speaking easily tested). If necessary, you should buy/build additional packs to split so you can keep these below the .2C rate, and you will be very, very pleased with results from cells that just don't meet the grade A tests. I have some I purchased from Amy when she was at Xuba, and they almost all tested right at or below the 280AH rating, 2 were as low as 264AH, but all of the others were at the mid to upper 270AH range. For the price ($1600 for 16, including all shipping, transaction fees, etc.) that can't be beat. If you are worried about a few millivolt difference in cells, then you need to purchase the true grade A with test results. If you just want energy storage for a solar project, the cheaper cells will work fine, and give more bang for the buck. Just don't expect them to survive 1C rates for long.
 
I just got a quote with DDP Shipping to the UK
for 4 pcs 280ah cells.
Cost is 4 x $110 per cell +$130.6 Shipping = US$570.60. (Only the transaction fee to pay... hopefully)
Shipping time is around two months.
Also, JBD 16S 200A costs US$107.
 
Just John said:
Generally speaking, you should keep/size your system for .2C or below, and you will be quite happy with the majority of the cells sold.
Click to expand...

If I draw .01-.02C (50-100W out of 5kWh+) 99% of the time, and .5C <1% of the time, is that acceptable?
-
 
For Grade A- (minus) - defined by Amy Wan as : "internal resistance and voltage are matched, capacity is not"?
-
 
Hello,
I just received an offer from Amy Wan of Shenzhen Luyuan Technology Co., Ltd. for 68 Eve 280Ah cells: "New version LF280K with 6000 fully matched cycles) - Genuine Class A cell with factory test sheet" with new terminals soldered in.
According to his claims (as explained by EVE) they would have: drastically reduced their prices, the aluminium shell would be thicker, equipped with new lugs.
This price drop ~$148 instead of the usual ~$200 on the market for this grade, would be due to the prolonged "covid" closure of the Calb factories which would have induced a temporary oversupply of raw materials for these cells.
My questions :
- has anyone heard of this?
and
- Given their configuration, would you equip these new terminals with flexible busbars?
Thank you for any reply.
 
Disagreement. I do not believe that I was sold true grade A cells; however, and I am not happy with the value of the cells I received from a reseller in Harrisburg, Virginia
 
PeterBC said:
No sure where to best post this. I bought my cells (52 x 272Ah Lishen) from Shenzen Basen on 31Dec20 DDP to France (98day delivery) USD 4691.00 DDP to France. . I'm happy enough with the 2 packs I had installed (remotely from Australia) with 24 cells each for 816AH x 24V nominal. Used Electrodacus SBMS0 BMS with Victron Quattro Inverter/Charger and Battery Protect for DC Load/charging control.

I'm often asked a bit by others what to recommend. I still feel very uncomfortable about the trust level from various providers and what exactly to say. My head spins re various Grades, manufacturers and resellers. I have several questions ? Many technical, some just commercial. By manufacturer below I refer to known companies like EVE, Lishen, CATL, CALB, Winston etc.

1. It seems very few buy small quantities direct from a manufacturer ?

2. What do the manufacturers test after manufacturing ? Internal Resistance, and Capacity at a std charge/discharge rate and temperature ?

3. Is inital SEI layer charging done ? or does the initial manufacturer capacity test qualify as this ?

4. Do manufacturers do a capacity test on all individual manufactured cells ? At what charge/discharge rate ? Would they keep a record of individual QR code manufacturing test ?

5. Do manufacturers do above testing with compression ?

6. If a new cell is capacity tested without compression is bloating likely ? Does it indicate quality difference in cells ? Does a bloated cell have significantly reduced lifespan from a single 'bloat' case? Can bloating be reversed ?

7. What exactly is "matched" by manufacturers ? "Batched" ?

8. Are cells normally manufactured with the blue plastic film on ? Why do some 'resellers' claim to apply that themselves ? (as shenzen Basen claimed to do with my cells, and Battleborn video's show them doing)

9. Is the QR code on most batteries done by original manufacturer ? What about cells that fail initial IR test and/or Capacity test ? Are reputable resellers replacing QR codes? to hide initial manufacturer ID and test results ?

10. Do they just 'grade' them into batches ? Is a batch of 272AH cells, likely just some 280AH cells that failed capacity tests a bit ? Apart from a slightly lower capacity (how much ? 5%?) what is the other difference (Internal Resistance ?). Is a static IR test indicative of a significant issue with a cell ?

11. What happens if cells of similar tested capacity have significant IR difference in a pack ? Whats considered a significant IR difference ? Eg: EVE 280AH quote < 25mOhm IR. Lishen 272AH quote AC-impedance(1000Hz) 0.12±0.05mΩ. Is lower IR better ? or is consistency more important ? Is heat at high amps the main impact of IR ?

12. There are many 'rumors' about resellers selling 2nd hand cells. How to identify ? Are significant supplies coming as 2nd hand ? Clearly any reseller selling 2nd hand cells without clearly identifying them as so should be avoided at almost any cost. Have we reports of any proven cases ?

13. Apart from 2nd hand cells, and bloated cells, what is indicative of a lower lifespan than usual for a specific cell type ? Eg: if one cell has double the IR of others is it likely to have lower lifespan ?

14. What other outcomes are expected from non ‘Grade A’ cells in a pack ?
Click to expand...
Brother, I with you on this one. I know they like American money, especially my American money. Basen especially. They don't seem to be too interested in selling single cells. Just about everyone thinks they can be a reseller. Trust no one.
 
Yurtdweller said:
I have 16 of her grade A cells. When I purchased them, I paid $125usd each. This was about $15ea over the going rate at the time, but I was willing to pay premium because of her reputation. I was not disappointed. I am running two 12v packs in parallel in my off-grid location, and everything is working just fine. Each pack stays balanced, and the two packs are nearly the exact same voltages(within .005v). The two packs have no balancing between them. Screen caps of my two packs right now. This is just half my order. 8 of my cells are not yet in constant use. Edited to add: These screen caps were done about a minute apart on a cloudy/sunny day, which is why some parameters are not exactly matched, such as incoming wattage/amperage.
Click to expand...
and your order was probably in 2020 or 2021..
thing is that cells send out the last few month from both supplier show behavior and capacity not complying with ev grade cells
 
houseofancients said:
and your order was probably in 2020 or 2021..
thing is that cells send out the last few month from both supplier show behavior and capacity not complying with ev grade cells
Click to expand...
The 304 cells I received last month certainly met specs for me.
I am thinking of ordering some of the 280 cells with the EVE installed terminals to test, but would currently have no use for them. I noticed she now has some very nice metal battery boxes. Those look quite nice. You can even get them set up for a Seplos BMS.

Perhaps I should order the cells and one of the cases and then see if anyone in the Phoenix area wants to purchase them from me after I have tested?
 
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