Deligreen 310Ah cells SCAM

TheYen

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They seemed fine up to about 75% then one started lagging behind
 

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TheYen

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Two got pregnant
 

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fhorst

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Yes, 2 got somewhat pregnant.
Bloated.

Not extreme so probably work just fine.

LiFePO4 isn't lithium polymer, bloating is NOT dangerous.
It will reduce capacity more quickly, and with it less suitable.

The original pictures show bloated cell with the shunt on the negative terminal, and no BMS wires.

New picture show totally different setup.

I'm not sure if it's your personal lab, or professional battery doctors.

The first picture seems the real setup as it doesn't make sense to just remove the BMS lugs and re-tighten the nuts.

Sorry for your 2 cell loss.

Several forum members are happy to receive them if you are planning as landfill.

For initial charge, rules are clear, and discussed many times.

Preferably per cell top charge to 3.65.
If that's inconvenient, use BMS during the charge, and stop when difference between cell voltage appear. (More then 0.1v)
This means... Monitoring, not let alone over night.
And... Lower amperage when the SOC increase.
At supposed 80% full, reduce to 10A max.
It's your first charge, always be careful.
Not boost 70A and expect all to go well.

After that, top charge per cell to 3.65.

Preferably mount then after this In parallel and keep 3.65 from CC/CV charger to get full saturation.

After this, you are ready to go.

Many people have thought this is too much work and tried it their way, with often bloating as result.
I'm one of them :)

Welcome to the pillow club!

While it's hard to accept you didn't follow the guidelines and that it might be your own fault, especially when you are agitated about QR codes...
This should be seen as user failure....

For now it's totally safe to use the 2 boated cells.

If it's a 12v setup, I would parallel those 2.

You can slowly find replacement from the same or different seller.

If you feel uncomfortable with using bloated cells, no one can help you with that.
They are as safe as they where before bloating, just less capacity or losing capacity more fast.
Sorry, no 5000 cycles on those 2.
I think you need to settle for 1000-1500 before you need to replace them.
That's still 3-5 years on daily usage.

That's why many other forum members do like to get them, preferably for free / postage cost.
Their environment for using the cells is probably more prepared for possible future and won't have harm if it does occur.
 

TheYen

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The cells were first charged in parallel, then assembled in 2p4s and charged with an Overkill BMS. Voltages and current were as in my previous post. Total capacity achieved Was 536Ah. Better than a kick where the sun doesn't shine but the question is, where are my 84 amps?
 

BlitzSSS

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The cells were first charged in parallel, then assembled in 2p4s and charged with an Overkill BMS. Voltages and current were as in my previous post. Total capacity achieved Was 536Ah. Better than a kick where the sun doesn't shine but the question is, where are my 84 amps?
Then how did the two cells get to 4.3v as labeled in the picture? The Overkill BMS would have cut off the charge.

I think you need to clearly read some of the previous replies you have received because your last few responses seem to have glossed over the facts and warnings about how this so called "lab" have mishandled your cells and now made matters much worse.

I too can sometimes be a little overly fussy and then fiddle perhaps a little too much making matters far worse, this thread has been painful to read.
 
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TheYen

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These are the same 2 cells that shipped at 2.9V and bulging
 

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BlitzSSS

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Who charged them at 4.3v? They didn't do that themselves whilst being connected at the correct voltage maximum of 3.65v.

Why didn't more of them swell if they were all charged to 4.3v whilst in parallel.

The first photo you provided with the two most swollen cells on the left, has the cells in series, not parallel, and as pointed out by some previous replies has no BMS connected. It would be extremely easy for one or more of the cells to go over 3.65v (and unnoticed) whilst the total voltage was no more than 14.6v. This is not balancing the cells and without a BMS there is no protection for this and each cell would need to be carefully and very frequently checked for individual voltage to avoid this occurring.
 

Sanwizard

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They got to 4.3v while in parallel
That is why I think putting cells in series parallel to create a pack is not a good idea. You have no BMS control of the individual cells, only the group.
 

Just John

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That is why I think putting cells in series parallel to create a pack is not a good idea. You have no BMS control of the individual cells, only the group.
It's really easy to control in parallel. Use your DMM and set the power supply to 3.65v. Then, don't change it, and connect it to the cells.
 

Bob B

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That is why I think putting cells in series parallel to create a pack is not a good idea. You have no BMS control of the individual cells, only the group.
All cells in a "group" are connected in parallel .... so will have the same voltage. No problem with a BMS controlling a pack set up that way.
I have a 2P4S pack and it is working and balancing just fine.
 

DJSmiley

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That is why I think putting cells in series parallel to create a pack is not a good idea. You have no BMS control of the individual cells, only the group.

In parallel, even without an BMS, overcharging is only possible if you didn't setup the charger/power supply properly.
When set to 3.65V without any load, it can't go over 3.65V

If it does, there are 2 options
- You didn't set it to 3.65, but higher, eg trying to adjust while connected to a load
- The power supply is failing.

To minimize the risk at #2, it's always recommended to double-check on the cell terminals with a decent DMM. Not all powersupplies have accurate readings, and using 2, you're double-checking it.
 

Sanwizard

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In parallel, even without an BMS, overcharging is only possible if you didn't setup the charger/power supply properly.
When set to 3.65V without any load, it can't go over 3.65V

If it does, there are 2 options
- You didn't set it to 3.65, but higher, eg trying to adjust while connected to a load
- The power supply is failing.

To minimize the risk at #2, it's always recommended to double-check on the cell terminals with a decent DMM. Not all powersupplies have accurate readings, and using 2, you're double-checking it.
DJ, agreed. I said SERIES parallel. IE:
PPsPPsPPsPPs 12V pack from 8 cells.
 

Substrate

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LiFePO4 isn't lithium polymer, bloating is NOT dangerous.
It will reduce capacity more quickly, and with it less suitable.
I'm sorry but I have to correct this. Some newb is going to read this and be scammed by trash-salesman.

Slight - and I mean slight - expansion is expected. It is held in check by compression, which these soft-cased aluminum shells are not adequate enough to do the job by themselves.

Delamination:
The anode and cathode are expected to be held tightly against the separator, so that the entire surface area is active during the charge / discharge process.

When you bloat, delamination can occur, and along with loss of capacity, it means that what's left is doing more work. Getting HOT. And spreading that heat to it's neighboring cell which may not be bloated, but soon will be affected.

So what do you do? You compress them back. But now, you run the risk or being out of alignment - they are cockeyed. Ever try to lay a sheet of plastic wrap down on a flat surface and expect perfect alignment and full area-contact with no tiny bubbles?

The only reason we're not bitching about it now is that we're in a sub-c application where things like this can hide. Put these cells into a motive-power application, and you'll find out fast.

So no, the op should not expect ruler-edge perfection when first purchased, but if you can rock-them on edge to any reasonable degree, then something is wrong. Either by sitting in a rail-car or cargo ship hold at 150F for weeks/months on end alone can do this.

So no, bloat is NOT normal, and should not be expected upon purchase. Something else was wrong, right from the get-go. In other words, those very first picture shots the op had were FINE. That's not bloat. It's the other stuff like QR codes that were funky.
 
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Leon

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The 4.3V labels are an indication of either faulty charging equipment or lack of understanding of the most basic characteristics of LiFePO4. What happened?
 

fhorst

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I'm sorry but I have to correct this. Some newb is going to read this and be scammed by trash-salesman.
I'm sorry but I have to correct this.

Unless OP is going to sell his bloated cells and refer to my post as reason to sell "as good as new" my comment is correct.

The original cells where slightly bloated, and as we agree, not a problem to ask for refund or any like this.

Wrongly charging (this is my assumption based on the pictures provided) did bloat 2 cells.

There is a crazy idea by some forum members, sadly including Will Prowse, who say that you need to trash bloated cells as they are "dangerous".
This is total BS, fear fed by lithium polymer advertisement about safety.
Absolutely no proof whatsoever that bloating makes it dangerous.

Bloating doesn't make them more dangerous as they where before bloating.

You still can stab them, shoot, short, trow in fire or from a high building and they won't explode or any other dangerous behaviour.

They will have reduced capacity and faster decay.
That doesn't make then dangerous and not absolutely useless.

If someone would offer the bloated cells and claim they are as good as non bloated, it's a scam.

I never said bloated cells are as good as non bloated.
Only that there is no need to trash them, and that there are many forum members who like to use them at postage costs if he refuses to use them due fear reasons.

That's better then using them as trash. Even if they work for 2 years, it's already saving the globe a lead acid battery to be produced.

Advicable is to replace the 2 cells. The setup can be used now, with the bloated cells, waiting for the new cells to arrive.

Something that can take months.
His cells will perform probably a year and longer without noticing decay.

Time enough to find a good replacement.

So no, bloat is NOT normal, and should not be expected upon purchase. Something else was wrong, right from the get-go. In other words, those very first picture shots the op had were FINE.
Yes, we agree on the slight bloating isn't a problem.
 

fhorst

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The 4.3V labels are an indication of either faulty charging equipment or lack of understanding of the most basic characteristics of LiFePO4. What happened?

Your right.
I've missed those labels.

The BMS picture show some strange information also.
Close to 300A charge and 300A discharge.

I don't know anyone who would be able to charge his solar system at 1C rates, or discharge them at those rates!!

Chinese advertisement is different then European or American.
They don't have to deliver what they sell.
Will often talks about "China margin", indication most specifications are exaturated.

I've seen Chinese flashlight advertisement showing 1.000.000 lux.
That's tells me that the light will be bright.
Our Sun does about 100-135.000 lux per m2
No way I can use that flashlight to power 5 solar panels :)

Buying cells for this price, no way they can handle 1C rates.
Same like "no way it's 10 times brighter then the sun"

If they really where charged and discharged at 1C rates, I'm positive surprised that just 2 cells are bloating!
 

e97

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This is nonsense. Everyone over advertises, even American companies.

After over 300 orders from China on AliExpress and Alibaba. I'd say 95%+ are as described.

I can count on a single hand the number of less than ideal experiences:

1) Wrong item sent, expensive camera. Seller refunded and paid for return shipping. Excellent seller, great communication and reputation. Did not need to escalate any issue, we handled it between us.

2) Missing items/partial order: credit for future order. No escalation.

3) Damaged item, escalated only to provide official pictures. Seller issued refund.

4) Wrong/defective item, stubborn seller. Escalated claim with Ali, they offered minimal refund based on title description mismatch. Escalated to credit card company and resolved with full refund.

Tips to keep in mind for a good experience:

+ if its too good to be true, it is AVOID.
+ Most listings are copied and pasted, that's why there are watermarks. Always ASK AND CONFIRM directly with the seller.
+ Chinese culture is different from Western culture. In China you build a relationship / friendship first then proceed to business. If you try to rush into it like a Western business transaction, you will have a bad experience.
+ Don't be an asshole, but hold sellers accountable. You yourself are also accountable. The escalation process is generally fair. Only once, it wasn't in my experience.


As for the batteries in OP, seller did misrepresent in listing about QR codes and bloating. If OP is quite upset about that, then return as not as advertised. Stop drawing this out, you're only causing pain for yourself and everyone else.

If willing to accept them with minor defect, test them and proceed from there.
 

Gazoo

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If OP is quite upset about that, then return as not as advertised.
Shipping back to China is very costly. Besides, it's too late for that because whoever paralleled top balanced and tested the cells did it wrong and two cells are severely bloated due to overcharging. The other cells might have capacity loss as well. IMO any warranty has been voided. Did you read and understand the whole thread? What happened here is a shame and I feel for the OP.
 
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