diy solar

diy solar

DEYE Inverter UL Listed available in US

Having 7kW AC, 5kW battery charging isn't terribly unbalanced. You draw power 24 hours per day and get 5 hours effective sun.
With 12kW of PV, 2.5kW average AC is all that's going to be available to you (off grid).
But incorrect expectations set by vendor data sheet is a problem. Maybe you expected to pull more power for A/C during the day.

Could it be that 7.2 kW limit is due to ambient temperature higher than 25C, and inverter could have done 9 kW if temperature not elevated?
A bigger fan might help. AC coupling (spend more money on additional electronics) should help.
 
Having 7kW AC, 5kW battery charging isn't terribly unbalanced. You draw power 24 hours per day and get 5 hours effective sun.
With 12kW of PV, 2.5kW average AC is all that's going to be available to you (off grid).
But incorrect expectations set by vendor data sheet is a problem. Maybe you expected to pull more power for A/C during the day.

Could it be that 7.2 kW limit is due to ambient temperature higher than 25C, and inverter could have done 9 kW if temperature not elevated?
A bigger fan might help. AC coupling (spend more money on additional electronics) should help.
20KW is only for 5 seconds. It says 12KW continuous power. Whatever that means
1615824621854.png
 
Having 7kW AC, 5kW battery charging isn't terribly unbalanced. You draw power 24 hours per day and get 5 hours effective sun.
With 12kW of PV, 2.5kW average AC is all that's going to be available to you (off grid).
But incorrect expectations set by vendor data sheet is a problem. Maybe you expected to pull more power for A/C during the day.

Could it be that 7.2 kW limit is due to ambient temperature higher than 25C, and inverter could have done 9 kW if temperature not elevated?
A bigger fan might help. AC coupling (spend more money on additional electronics) should help.
25c is only 77f . Here on the Northern California coast that would be a heat wave. Yes AC coupling is always an option as is conservation. I think my point to bringing all this out is that I believe that the Sol-Ark 8k and the Sol-Ark 12k are the same beast with the 12k having more bells and whistles. We have to remember that the Sol-Ark is a transformer-less unit that can't take surges very well unlike the Sunny Island that can take extended spikes without damage.
 
Continuous power means on the input side, DC. You can run 12kw of DC through it to charge batteries and supply AC as well as shoot some power off to the grid in any combination.

That's any combination of supply AC and send power to grid, within 9kW limit (reported here as only 7.2kW from experience.)
The total of 12kW DC from PV should be very useful in that batteries can charge at the same time.
185A at 48V is 8.9kW charging.

They say SolArk works with AC coupled PV.
Do you know that is any AC coupled PV (without controlling its power output so has to periodically knock them off grid), or if it uses frequency shift to manage inverters that implement the frequency-watts option of Rule 21 for smooth continuous operation?
 
Continuous power means on the input side, DC. You can run 12kw of DC through it to charge batteries and supply AC as well as shoot some power off to the grid in any combination.
It is looking more and more like I could have used the Deye or the 8K.

There is nothing limiting my expectations though. I want to use my solar when the grid is down and I want uninterruptible critical loads.
 
That's any combination of supply AC and send power to grid, within 9kW limit (reported here as only 7.2kW from experience.)
The total of 12kW DC from PV should be very useful in that batteries can charge at the same time.
185A at 48V is 8.9kW charging.

They say SolArk works with AC coupled PV.
Do you know that is any AC coupled PV (without controlling its power output so has to periodically knock them off grid), or if it uses frequency shift to manage inverters that implement the frequency-watts option of Rule 21 for smooth continuous operation?
I've had long talks with Sol-Ark tech support about AC coupling. You can backfeed through the Smartload/generator input but it needs to be regulated externally so as to not overcharge the batteries. There is no internal circuitry to regulate it from that end. Unregulated it will overcharge the batteries.
My example was to run a micro inverter system into the generator input. I figured out a way to do it but it needed more monitoring than my customer wanted to do.
 
Mendo Home Power, I get the impression that you have more Solark experience than anyone else I have seen here.
But you are posting all of this info in a Deye thread.
Maybe because Solark replied here.

But the info would be better for others in a Solark thread.
 
Mendo Home Power, I get the impression that you have more Solark experience than anyone else I have seen here.
But you are posting all of this info in a Deye thread.
Maybe because Solark replied here.

But the info would be better for others in a Solark thread.
+1 @Mendo Home Power I'd be interested in knowing if you have done any canbus communication with the sol-ark and/or what type of battery storage that you have done for customers. There is actually another Sol-Ark thread that someone started that might be a good place for a brain dump.. ;-)
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/s...uestions-and-answers.16622/page-2#post-229462
 
I've had long talks with Sol-Ark tech support about AC coupling. You can backfeed through the Smartload/generator input but it needs to be regulated externally so as to not overcharge the batteries. There is no internal circuitry to regulate it from that end. Unregulated it will overcharge the batteries.
My example was to run a micro inverter system into the generator input. I figured out a way to do it but it needed more monitoring than my customer wanted to do.

1615837951250.png

"Supports AC Coupling" ought to mean than it manages grid-tie inverter output by frequency shift.
At the very least, runs frequency up until they go off line (UL 1741). But if they do frequency-watts, it should hover at a frequency that delivers right amount of power.
The AC coupled inverters aren't even connected to the batteries, can't over-charge them. It is up to SolArk to deliver proper charge to batteries.
 
Last edited:
View attachment 41112

"Supports AC Coupling" ought to mean than it manages grid-tie inverter output by frequency shift.
At the very least, runs frequency up until the go off line (UL 1741). But if they do frequency-watts, it should hover at a frequency that delivers right amount of power.
The AC coupled inverters aren't even connected to the batteries, can't over-charge them. It is up to SolArk to deliver proper charge to batteries.
That's what I thought too. but they have a different method of madness
 
View attachment 41112

"Supports AC Coupling" ought to mean than it manages grid-tie inverter output by frequency shift.
At the very least, runs frequency up until they go off line (UL 1741). But if they do frequency-watts, it should hover at a frequency that delivers right amount of power.
The AC coupled inverters aren't even connected to the batteries, can't over-charge them. It is up to SolArk to deliver proper charge to batteries.
This is a better answer and shows the frequency shift
I haven't done it that way yet but it shouldn't be a big deal.
 
This is a better answer and shows the frequency shift ... I haven't done it that way yet but it shouldn't be a big deal.

He describes SolArk raising frequency until AC coupled GT inerter knocked off line. Wait until battery down to 90%, return to 60 Hz, 5 minutes later GT inverter returns.

He said it can be used for off-grid, but isn't great. DC coupled is best.
No mention of frequency-watts.
He mentioned a couple brands, but not SMA which has done off-grid homes, resorts, villages, nations with AC coupling.

AC coupled with GT power reduced in response to frequency increase works great for off grid.
That is an optional part of Rule-21 (frequency-watts)

Can SolArk be set to continuously run frequency up and down, rather than staying high until battery drops to 90% SoC?
If so, that could interact with frequency-watts.
 
I came across this thread yesterday and need some help understanding what Mendo is referring to about Sol-Ark 12K's only actually being able to output somewhere between 7.2KW - 7.4KW on the A/C side before tripping???

If this is correct then not only am I very disappointed, but will need to quickly re-evaluate my future plans etc...
I can understand the "Real-World" Continuous A/C output being slightly less than advertised ( a few %), but if true this is closer to 20% less which to me is a very big deal when considering I've spent months tediously figuring out which appliances to replace/how many PV panels to put up/ the degree of tilt of the arrays/ Battery Bank size/and lately how big of a Generator would be required in order to go completely "OFF-GRID" (The local Co-OP changed their Interconnect rules in the middle of my installation and they are now so absurd that currently I see almost no other viable options for my particular situation)

Since I just found this post I haven't had alot of time to test out whether the assertions made in the thread regarding the Sol-Ark 12K's true A/C power/output are correct, at least with regard to my system in particular. Further, now that the Co-OP has locked out the Non-Fusable Safety Switch on my connection to the Grid all I can test for now is the "Off-Grid" performance/A/C Output etc.......

However I do also have some pictures showing the User Screen during Grid-Tie operation that were taken before it was locked out from the Grid as well as a few that I just took in "Off-Grid" mode attached. Hopefully the pictures will allow Mendo and/or someone else here to help me understand what is actually taking place on my system. I am still a relative Newbie, but so far the only way it could make sense to me is if the User Screen showing Output #'s etc.... was somehow also including conversion losses as if it were the Load and even then those losses seem higher than they should be.

Or the User Screen #'s are just artificially and Intentionally inflated while actually producing far below the claimed output and outright Fraud (7.2 -7.4 KW instead of 9 or even 9.6KW). These #'s play critical roles in major decisions that have long lasting ramifications such as whether to stay Grid-Tied or not, whether or not to buy and install a Generator, whether to spend thousands of dollars on additional Batteries, and whether or not to replace select appliances or even possibly buying another Sol-Ark.

I look forward to finding out the truth before I make any more of these important and costly long-term decisions.
 

Attachments

  • 20210126_113519-1.jpg
    20210126_113519-1.jpg
    37.9 KB · Views: 24
  • 20210203_132226.jpg
    20210203_132226.jpg
    36.4 KB · Views: 19
  • 20210417_132002.jpg
    20210417_132002.jpg
    54.1 KB · Views: 24
  • 20210415_090249.jpg
    20210415_090249.jpg
    148.9 KB · Views: 24
As far as i know the inverter had a max output of 8k and was able to take on more solar hence the 12k name...now if they got the manufacturer to redesign the inverter to produce more power thats great...the only miss representation i have ever seen from them is the inverter was designed and built in the usa....it is a modified Chinese inverter(internal breakers biggest distinction)....turn on everything you have...max it out while using a multimeter to double check what display says.
 
According to the data sheet, 8kW is all it's inverter will produce continuously.
On-grid It is able to let loads of 9.6kW run, making up to 8kW from inverter and drawing the balance from grid.
I think it can have PV deliver 12kW DC, producing 8kW AC and charging 4kW DC or vice-versa.

Typically inverters are rated for power they can deliver continuously with 25 degree C ambient, and a reduced power at higher temperature.
Some people have reported less than 8kW. You're showing slightly more. Could be variations in air temperature, humidity (heat capacity) and variations from unit to unit. While GT PV inverters may measure and limit power to a specific amount, battery inverters are more likely to deliver whatever they can but throttle back to limit heatsink temperature.

You may be able to parallel two of the SolArk to get 16 kW.

I think it can be programmed for zero export, which will hopefully satisfy your HOA (uncooperative).
If some export is allowed, it may be programmable to limit export to a specified amount.

 
According to the data sheet, 8kW is all it's inverter will produce continuously.
This basically matches Deye's specs as well:

1618699871477.png

These units have a different internal layout/system desing than most are used to IMHO and therefore this causes lots of confusion. The 190A DC-DC adds a layer of complexity not found on other systems.

It's designed around a HV (High Voltage) ~400V DC bus that connects 4 major components:

2x MPPT Controllers. ~5500W per MPPT according to Deye. If 400V VMP input and 400V output, eff should be 99.90% or so.
1x 190A bi-directional (buck/boost) DC-DC stepping a 40V-60V battery to ~400V bus and vise-versa.
1x ~400V <-> 120/240V Bi-Directional Inverter

Due to the number of components and complex variations of possible input/output currents, the specs given get confusing.

For example, the DC-DC for the battery is good for 9,120W not counting losses. So regardless of the inverter size, the DC-DC won't kick out more than 9KW for the inverter to "invert" when on battery only.

Deye claims "Frequency droop control" and they actually have the setting for frequency watt for the grid connection but that's only to control the output of the Deye inverter. I have yet to test if it will ramp smoothly as a control mechanism with micros or GTs.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top