DEYE Inverter UL Listed available in US

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
Think that 400V DC bus can be tapped into? Do the different components talk to each other, or just regulate that bus?

The cheap VFD we use for 3-phase motors have poor PF, just rectifier into capacitor front end. If we would wire the the SolArk/Deye 400V DC bus to VFD, that would be power-factor corrected.

I don't know if VFD would also be willing to operate into resistive loads (heating), but if so could do more to make a household adjust consumption to perfectly match surplus production.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
@Gringo1

I can translate those screens and they look basically as they should.

Your loads were 9.77KW according to one photo.

The inverter was topping out at around 8.98 KW so you were pulling 0.79KW from the grid.

The PV inputs were producing 11KW but because of the inverter limitation, the max delivered to your loads was 8.98KW and the rest (1.62KW) was going back through the DC-DC into the batteries.

You wouldn't have been able to hold 8.98KW from the inverter for long in my opinion. As it began to overheat, assuming the loads were unchanged, you would have slowly pulled in more and more from the grid as the inverter derated.

From my testing, it appears that Deye's numbers are conservative and that SOL-ARK's are perhaps optimistic.

Also bear in mind the inverter pulls between ~0.50 - 0.60KW or 50-60W for internal use so that skews the results one can see just a touch. In your case, the 50W draw would have been from the array. The math based on the outputs shown on the screen supports this.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
Think that 400V DC bus can be tapped into? Do the different components talk to each other, or just regulate that bus?
Based on the fundaments of lithium BMS integration I would say that all the components are controlled by a central controller. That's just my opinion though.

You may be able to parallel two of the SolArk to get 16 kW.
I'd like to see someone test paralleling an 8KW Deye with a SOL-ARK master.... Cheap upgrade comparatively.
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
I came across this thread yesterday and need some help understanding what Mendo is referring to about Sol-Ark 12K's only actually being able to output somewhere between 7.2KW - 7.4KW on the A/C side before tripping???

If this is correct then not only am I very disappointed, but will need to quickly re-evaluate my future plans etc...
I can understand the "Real-World" Continuous A/C output being slightly less than advertised ( a few %), but if true this is closer to 20% less which to me is a very big deal when considering I've spent months tediously figuring out which appliances to replace/how many PV panels to put up/ the degree of tilt of the arrays/ Battery Bank size/and lately how big of a Generator would be required in order to go completely "OFF-GRID" (The local Co-OP changed their Interconnect rules in the middle of my installation and they are now so absurd that currently I see almost no other viable options for my particular situation)

Since I just found this post I haven't had alot of time to test out whether the assertions made in the thread regarding the Sol-Ark 12K's true A/C power/output are correct, at least with regard to my system in particular. Further, now that the Co-OP has locked out the Non-Fusable Safety Switch on my connection to the Grid all I can test for now is the "Off-Grid" performance/A/C Output etc.......

However I do also have some pictures showing the User Screen during Grid-Tie operation that were taken before it was locked out from the Grid as well as a few that I just took in "Off-Grid" mode attached. Hopefully the pictures will allow Mendo and/or someone else here to help me understand what is actually taking place on my system. I am still a relative Newbie, but so far the only way it could make sense to me is if the User Screen showing Output #'s etc.... was somehow also including conversion losses as if it were the Load and even then those losses seem higher than they should be.

Or the User Screen #'s are just artificially and Intentionally inflated while actually producing far below the claimed output and outright Fraud (7.2 -7.4 KW instead of 9 or even 9.6KW). These #'s play critical roles in major decisions that have long lasting ramifications such as whether to stay Grid-Tied or not, whether or not to buy and install a Generator, whether to spend thousands of dollars on additional Batteries, and whether or not to replace select appliances or even possibly buying another Sol-Ark.

I look forward to finding out the truth before I make any more of these important and costly long-term decisions.
Since my last posts about the 7.2 to 7.4kw max output I have been called out several times for my claims. So to be clear, after more testing, and in a perfect world the Sol- Ark will achieve 9kw if you are running ONLY 240v loads. If there is any imbalance created by running 120v loads on L1 or L2 the output drops significantly. This is because of the 120v (stated) 4.8kw rating of each leg. I have found that to be lower as well.
I have also since tested the Deye 8kw. It's a dead ringer for the Sol-Ark.
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
Based on the fundaments of lithium BMS integration I would say that all the components are controlled by a central controller. That's just my opinion though.


I'd like to see someone test paralleling an 8KW Deye with a SOL-ARK master.... Cheap upgrade comparatively.
The Deye and the Sol- Ark have different software. Each is proprietary so I doubt they will talk to each other.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
The Deye and the Sol- Ark have different software. Each is proprietary so I doubt they will talk to each other.
It's true, they do. If I had both on hand however, I would probably test it. From some conversations and backroom chatter, I don't believe they've changed as much under the hood as it appears (to me at at least). The core controls are the same and the CAN bus interface and protocol is very likely identical. IMHO, as the long as the CAN bus protocol is the same, one shouldn't have an issue.

Beyond that, the Deye units are frequency-watt compliant so one technically wouldn't need to parallel using the CAN interface. One could just treat it like a GT inverter. The only difference is that the GT would go off when the PV output was unusable however the Deye will keep pumping power via it's grid output into the micro inverter input on the SOL-ARK until the battery SOC cut-off. It'll restart it's output and reconnect when the PV reboots it the next day. Would make for completely seamless, software-agnostic paralleling. Not really any different than how we design distributed micro-grids.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
So to be clear, after more testing, and in a perfect world the Sol- Ark will achieve 9kw if you are running ONLY 240v loads. If there is any imbalance created by running 120v loads on L1 or L2 the output drops significantly.
An autotransformer (or 2x formers if the 5KW SolarEdge) would solve that should it be a real issue for someone needing to eke out 100% power.
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
An autotransformer (or 2x formers if the 5KW SolarEdge) would solve that should it be a real issue for someone needing to eke out 100% power.
If its off grid why not just use the Growatt 5k 240v units in parallel at $800.00 each along with the Solaredge transformers? The current $6800.00 price tag for the Sol-Ark makes it a petty pricey 8k unit.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
If its off grid why not just use the Growatt 5k 240v units in parallel at $800.00 each along with the Solaredge transformers? The current $6800.00 price tag for the Sol-Ark makes it a petty pricey 8k unit.
It's true however I don't believe a person could directly compare them (not saying that you are). The startup on the Growatt units from what I have seen is pretty poor and the overall eff is quite low. Not to mention the THD. And I believe they are using a 48V bus which IMHO doesn't make sense for a hybrid unless they are just trying to save money. An installer in my area ended out having to use some Growatt units (different models) because they couldn't get the units they wanted for a bit. They have seen nothing but problems with starting well pumps etc.

The Deye models are significantly less the SOL-ARK versions. Not as cheap as the Growatt units but I think there is something to be said for quality there. Plus the Solarman remote monitoring platform is phenomenal for what it is. Entirely separate platforms for installers and homeowners.
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
Beyond the one Deye I have been able to get here in the US I haven't been able to find any more. I suppose if I went to Ali Express I could get them. With regards to the Growatt I have installed a number of the 3k LV units in series to get 240v for clients in off grid situations. In five separate installs over a year there have been no complaints. While the software isn't as good as Solarman Deye or Powerview with Sol-Ark for the $ spent they are quite effective and put out as advertised.
 

Haugen

Tron God
Beyond the one Deye I have been able to get here in the US I haven't been able to find any more. I suppose if I went to Ali Express I could get them. With regards to the Growatt I have installed a number of the 3k LV units in series to get 240v for clients in off grid situations. In five separate installs over a year there have been no complaints. While the software isn't as good as Solarman Deye or Powerview with Sol-Ark for the $ spent they are quite effective and put out as advertised.
The reason you can't find them in the US is because SolArk owns the design and prohibits the other brands that they allow to produce them to sell in other countries, just not in the US.
It's an IP issue. If you put significant resources into designing a product, would you just let the factory you hired to build them, undercut your business by directly competing with you?
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
Beyond the one Deye I have been able to get here in the US I haven't been able to find any more.
At the moment sourcing them is not an issue. In the future, anyone is welcome to PM me about buying one. I can get them cheapest in bulk of course so had considered posting a group buy. I just have a couple of logistics stateside to work out yet.

In five separate installs over a year there have been no complaints.
Good to know! Others will appreciate this as well. I have no first-hand experience with them myself outside of speccing an install with them which was handed off to a contractor. I just know the experiences around me and the issues I predict from the datasheet. Plus things I hear from suppliers.
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
The reason you can't find them in the US is because SolArk owns the design and prohibits the other brands that they allow to produce them to sell in other countries, just not in the US.
It's an IP issue. If you put significant resources into designing a product, would you just let the factory you hired to build them, undercut your business by directly competing with you?
Hmmm... While Sol-Ark (Portable Power LLC) may claim ownership of the technology they share with Deye and a few other asian companies, Sol-Ark certainly wasn't the first to use it. A few years back while Portable Power LLC was still fumbling around with separate components mounted on a board using imported pieces to create an off grid package, the real US innovators that have been re-imagining power production for over 35 years at Outback (formerly Trace Engineering engineers) created the Skybox. Which, went into production prior to Sol-Ark's 8k unit. I would say that it is more likely that the folks at Sol-Ark took Outbacks Skybox design to china, reverse engineered it, moved things around a bit and came out with the Sol-Ark 8k and then the 12k (also 8k). So essentially the Sol-Ark may really be designed in the US., just not like we have been led to believe. The same way Sol-Ark has gotten a Dept of Energy award for the most innovative US product when it all comes from China. To expound on this thought a bit more, if you go to https://pv.inteless.com/login you will come to the English login page for Sol-Ark's online monitoring system. However if you go https://inteless.com which is the monitoring company's main page, it is all in Chinese. So Sol-Ark incorporates Chinese monitoring through a Chinese server for all of the US based Sol-Ark equipment. This means that technically, someone monitoring your Sol-Ark in China can shut down your Sol-Ark the same way Sol-Ark techs can monitor and change your Sol-Ark by you just having a wifi connection. All the EMP hardening in the world cant fix that gaping hole. And, it shows exactly who is in control of Sol-Ark. If you go to the Deye website they talk about the wonderful response they have gotten with their product in the US. I think this is a true statement because everything is coming out of the same manufacturer. GSL Energy.
Similarly, MPP Solar out of Taiwan was also using the same technology a couple of years before Sol-Ark. Their little green stackable 2.4k hybrid grid tie units are still on the market and work pretty good. Software is crap but they tick along nicely.

It's always better to try and look at the complete story instead of buying into marketing bites that may be full of coverups
 

Mendo Home Power

Solar Enthusiast
At the moment sourcing them is not an issue. In the future, anyone is welcome to PM me about buying one. I can get them cheapest in bulk of course so had considered posting a group buy. I just have a couple of logistics stateside to work out yet.


Good to know! Others will appreciate this as well. I have no first-hand experience with them myself outside of speccing an install with them which was handed off to a contractor. I just know the experiences around me and the issues I predict from the datasheet. Plus things I hear from suppliers.
Actually, I just had to go and do a reboot on a Growatt 3k system that was only grid charging the batteries on the master unit instead of using PV during the day. Reboot fixed the issue. Still, not bad. This particular customer wont make the shift to a 240v well pump so there are 120v amp spikes from their 1hp pump that regularly go beyond the surge limit of the unit. However, they appear to be handling the loads nicely. There haven't been any resets that the customer has informed me of anyway.
 

Gringo1

New Member
On the Data sheet I took a picture of and attached it says "Continuous AC Power to load 9KW (OFF GRID)"
to me this rules out pulling 8KW from Inverter and 1KW from Grid, as its "OFF GRID"

ALSO

"CONTINUOUS AC POWER WITH GRID OR GENERATOR" 15,120W@240V /7560@120V
This implies being able to charge batteries and run loads simultaneously via Generator pass-thru, does anyone know if this is correct/can actually be done in the real world.

I remember that around September/October of 2020 Sol-Ark came out with their new version/model 12K-P, which is what I have. They specifically changed the spec sheet from 9KW on Grid/8KW Off-Grid to 9KW on Grid/9KW Off Grid on the new model.

This assertion affirmatively communicates that they changed something/added something or updated the Software to increase the Inverter's Off-Grid Output from the prior model, yet if I understand what is being said on this thread its Output is still the same as the Deye/previous model of the Sol-Ark 12K??

My concern is that perhaps the only change that was made to the new model was an update in the software in order to get the User Screen to indicate it was actually putting out more power to the Load by either including Conversion Losses and/or including the Draw of the Inverter itself or possibly even just artificially indicating a Higher Output than was actually occurring in reality.

With respect to this issue the first response to my post is correct in that the real way to figure out what the "True Output" is to simultaneously use a multi-meter on every load and cross-reference that with the # showing on the User Screen. I plan to try and do this, but with my Sol-Ark now only powering the Critical Loads it could be quite difficult for me to get it to reach that high of an Output level without having intermittent surge draws/Loads from the Well-Pump etc.... as well as I would probably also need another person on site helping to turn things on and/or using the multi-meter so I can sit there staring at the Screen because once it trips the screen goes dark etc.... there may be another way to do this by myself, but not sure yet and there is still the problem of the well-pump clicking on and off.

I took a short video yesterday of the User Scrren while running 8KW+ with the Loads on L1 and L2 relatively Balanced. The video shows the total Amps of both Legs being about 63.5 - 64.2 . I waited until there was plenty of Sun so as not requiring any supplemental power from the Batteries and turned the Discharge rate from the Batteries down to close to zero. Because the Spec sheet also lists " Battery Output Power as 8KW" in contrast to the 9KW listed for "Off-Grid Continuous AC Power to Loads"

I found a combination of Loads to turn on to get up to a steady/stable 8.1KW Load without using the well pump and recorded a video. It ran the 8.1KW load for about 39 seconds and then tripped off!

Potentially Relevant Observations:

1. When multiplying the Amps shown x Volts shown
A. L1 29.7A x 120V = 3,564W while the Output was showing 3,811W

B. L2 34.5A x 120V = 4,140W while the Output was showing 4,345W

TOTALS. 7,704W OUTPUT SHOWING 8,156W

Of course the #'s were fluctuating slightly, but this was the most stable combination of critical loads I could find so far. Basically an approximate 450Watt difference throughout the test.

Also L1 did seem to indicate at least one of its Loads had a small amount of "Lagging" most likely from an inductive Load as it fluctuated slightly with Watts going down as Amps went up, at least for part of the time during the test.

2. During this time the Fans of the Sol-Ark kicked on, (which happens throughout the day sometimes even when Loads are small) yet the #'s reported on the User Screen did not seem to go up when they kicked on. Later I also found that the #'s on the User Screen did not seem to go down when the fans shut off either.


I don't know if the attached video is going to upload successfully or not.

3. The fact that the Sol-Ark powered the 8.1KW+ Loads for approximately 40 seconds seems to indicate that the 5 second or 10 second surge capabilities, whichever it is, never came into play.
 

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Gringo1

New Member
I will try and upload the video again.

Also, the fluctuation on L1 during my test was only from 29.3A to 29.9 A only and the Watts only fluctuated between a range of 3,789W low and 3,822W high. L2 remained constant.

Either way whether the "Actual AC Power going to the Loads" was 7.7KW or 8.15KW it still tripped off WELL below the RATED 9KW @240V or 4800W on each leg of 120V listed on the side of this BRAND NEW unit.

I do still like many features of the Sol-Ark and I am a reasonably patient person and will continue to look at everything in order to make sure there's not something else I can/should be doing in order to get the unit to function as Advertised,/Represented and I certainly don't feel like ripping it out and starting over with something else after having already made several rennovations to the house and installing new appliances.

However to the best of my knowledge I have watched every single video ever released by Sol-Ark and have read the manual over 10 times. I don't remember ever coming across ANY Caveats/Qualified Statements/Disclaimers about the purported Output. A 15% - 25% difference between the Claimed Output and Actual Output over a ten year period or longer is huge and will effectively cancel out/nullify many of the other upgrades to appliances I have made. Further, now I am very hesitant to rely on any of the other #'s they claim which makes getting the right Generator much more difficult.

While I don't currently practice Law IN TEXAS any longer I did so for quite some time and am very familiar with their DECEPTIVE TRADE PRACTICES ACT and when someone goes so far as releasing a Newer Model with even higher performance claims than the previous model they are making an Affirmative Representation that something material has actually changed and that it can be relied upon by people interested in purchasing their product.

I am still hoping that it's just something that I'm not doing correctly or that needs to be wired up differently, otherwise Sol-Ark may be getting their First Return.
 

Ted Katsouras

New Member
On the Data sheet I took a picture of and attached it says "Continuous AC Power to load 9KW (OFF GRID)"
to me this rules out pulling 8KW from Inverter and 1KW from Grid, as its "OFF GRID"

ALSO

"CONTINUOUS AC POWER WITH GRID OR GENERATOR" 15,120W@240V /7560@120V
This implies being able to charge batteries and run loads simultaneously via Generator pass-thru, does anyone know if this is correct/can actually be done in the real world.

I remember that around September/October of 2020 Sol-Ark came out with their new version/model 12K-P, which is what I have. They specifically changed the spec sheet from 9KW on Grid/8KW Off-Grid to 9KW on Grid/9KW Off Grid on the new model.

This assertion affirmatively communicates that they changed something/added something or updated the Software to increase the Inverter's Off-Grid Output from the prior model, yet if I understand what is being said on this thread its Output is still the same as the Deye/previous model of the Sol-Ark 12K??

My concern is that perhaps the only change that was made to the new model was an update in the software in order to get the User Screen to indicate it was actually putting out more power to the Load by either including Conversion Losses and/or including the Draw of the Inverter itself or possibly even just artificially indicating a Higher Output than was actually occurring in reality.

With respect to this issue the first response to my post is correct in that the real way to figure out what the "True Output" is to simultaneously use a multi-meter on every load and cross-reference that with the # showing on the User Screen. I plan to try and do this, but with my Sol-Ark now only powering the Critical Loads it could be quite difficult for me to get it to reach that high of an Output level without having intermittent surge draws/Loads from the Well-Pump etc.... as well as I would probably also need another person on site helping to turn things on and/or using the multi-meter so I can sit there staring at the Screen because once it trips the screen goes dark etc.... there may be another way to do this by myself, but not sure yet and there is still the problem of the well-pump clicking on and off.

I took a short video yesterday of the User Scrren while running 8KW+ with the Loads on L1 and L2 relatively Balanced. The video shows the total Amps of both Legs being about 63.5 - 64.2 . I waited until there was plenty of Sun so as not requiring any supplemental power from the Batteries and turned the Discharge rate from the Batteries down to close to zero. Because the Spec sheet also lists " Battery Output Power as 8KW" in contrast to the 9KW listed for "Off-Grid Continuous AC Power to Loads"

I found a combination of Loads to turn on to get up to a steady/stable 8.1KW Load without using the well pump and recorded a video. It ran the 8.1KW load for about 39 seconds and then tripped off!

Potentially Relevant Observations:

1. When multiplying the Amps shown x Volts shown
A. L1 29.7A x 120V = 3,564W while the Output was showing 3,811W

B. L2 34.5A x 120V = 4,140W while the Output was showing 4,345W

TOTALS. 7,704W OUTPUT SHOWING 8,156W

Of course the #'s were fluctuating slightly, but this was the most stable combination of critical loads I could find so far. Basically an approximate 450Watt difference throughout the test.

Also L1 did seem to indicate at least one of its Loads had a small amount of "Lagging" most likely from an inductive Load as it fluctuated slightly with Watts going down as Amps went up, at least for part of the time during the test.

2. During this time the Fans of the Sol-Ark kicked on, (which happens throughout the day sometimes even when Loads are small) yet the #'s reported on the User Screen did not seem to go up when they kicked on. Later I also found that the #'s on the User Screen did not seem to go down when the fans shut off either.


I don't know if the attached video is going to upload successfully or not.

3. The fact that the Sol-Ark powered the 8.1KW+ Loads for approximately 40 seconds seems to indicate that the 5 second or 10 second surge capabilities, whichever it is, never came into play.
The Sol-Ark fans consume around 20-30W so it is hard to register if the resolution of the A/Ds is not there.
I also have the newer version of the 12K and I am using the Load Out only. I did a similar load test using available loads at home and the range and I could see on the LCD output around 8.4KW which was not constant as the range burners turn off and on. The Sol-Ark did not shut down.
On my system I also have 8 360W panels with microinverters that gives me another 240V 10A as a buffer for heavy loads that was off at the time of the test. This solution works only during the day, adding another inverter with PV and battery input will be a better solution, so far the my Sol-Ark did not shut-off due to overload to pursue that.
 

Gringo1

New Member
I appreciate your response and it gives me hope that maybe I just have a Defective unit that needs to be replaced
 

Hedges

I See Electromagnetic Fields!
Here's a thought - check battery voltage.
The wattage limitation is likely due to heating of transistors, I^2 x R.
Lower battery voltage, higher current, more heating.

I finally realized why "Inverter AC power off-grid 9kW" vs. "Inverter battery power off-grid 8kW".
Since this inverter uses a 400V DC bus and 48V (+/-) DC battery, it has to boost from 48V (+/-) to 400V before it can make 120/240VAC. It also has PV which can supply the 400V DC bus.

The AC inverter may actually be able to supply the specified 9kW continuous at 25 degrees C. But the boost from battery voltage may be the limitation.

When you encountered the 7.7 to 8.15 kW limit, how much PV was available?
Try testing with a fully charged battery and several kW of PV.
 

the_colorist

"Move over... let me fix it"
I waited until there was plenty of Sun so as not requiring any supplemental power from the Batteries and turned the Discharge rate from the Batteries down to close to zero.
So I unfortunately don't have time to mention as many things as I would like but in addition to @Hedges comment, your reducing the output current from the batteries likely hampered your test. I believe the inverter is capable. I've done enough testing, I'm with @Hedges on there being other issues at play. With the current limitation in the software from the batteries, any slight dip in the array output (a multitude of reasons this could happen) could have caused the load to switch to the batteries for a brief moment and triggered an overcurrent fault.

Maybe you said somewhere and I missed it but what are you using for batteries? Do they come with/are you using CAN communication with the inverter?

Although the inverter is solid, the reactive/surge capabilities of this unit aren't as capacitive as others such as an SMA 6048, making it rely more heavily on the battery IMHO. Plus I have found that the MPPT controllers are slower to track than others I have worked with. These issues combined could cause overcurrent triggers and shutdowns.

I would add an AT (auto-transformer). It'll help balance the loads and prevent overload trips from either leg independently. If you want a fancy 7.6KVA Victron with a fan, I can set you up with one with a discount. Should be large enough, I doubt you'll need more than 28A of continuous line-to-line transfer.
 
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