Did I get scammed for $3100? Vpment 12v 200ah batteries a scam? They only weigh 34lbs.

[oregonsun]

I won an ebay auction for 8x brand new vpment 12v 200ah lipo4 for only $3100, (I know, too good to be true) and I actually received 8 batteries labeled that.

They look identical to powerqueen 12v 200ah, they claim 200ah BMS inside, except the weight is way below my ampertime 12v 200ah or any of the others of this capacity I have looked up.

Is it even possible that there exists a 12v 200ah lipo4 that only weighs 34 pounds 4oz or would that break the laws of physics?

I don't have a capacity meter to check them, but given they're like 12 to 14 pounds lighter than all the competition I'm already assuming there is no way they're 200ah cells, I'm guessing they're 150ah at best.

What do the experts here say? This is a lot of money to throw away, should I even keep them if they do turn out to be only 150ah and the seller offers to adjust the price or should I insist on returning them?

 

[oregonsun]

Damn I really needed to expand my battery capacity on the cheap, this sucks. I really needed them to work out.
Any other ideas on where to get a good deal that is legit?

I want (need) to expand the capacity of a current bank of 4 amperetime 12v 200ah batteries that I have been running at 48v for two years now.

 

[underdog5004]

Charge them up, then run a known load (inverter with heater). Rated kwh divided by load watts times inverter efficiency should give you an idea if they're 200 or 150 (or other) ah.

 

[oregonsun]

Charge them up, then run a known load (inverter with heater). Rated kwh divided by load watts times inverter efficiency should give you an idea if they're 200 or 150 (or other) ah.

Thanks. I was thinking of this, I do have a spare growatt to try this with and a heater that I'll have to see what it's high and low draw are, probably around 750w and 1500w.

I don't have enough cables to hook this test up while using my other batteries and growatt, but I guess I can start cutting and stripping some spare extension cord wire I have and make something up temporarily with bare wire ends for all the battery interconnects and inverter to battery connections. (I didn't order all the cables because I didn't even trust that I was going to receive these batteries at all, half way expected to receive nothing at that price.)

 

[Tomthumb62]

If they get only 150Ah, consider if you still would’ve bought them at the price you paid. If not, then see if you can get a partial refund to make it worth your while. Maybe open one of them up and see what’s inside.

 

[oregonsun]

If they get only 150Ah, consider if you still would’ve bought them at the price you paid. If not, then see if you can get a partial refund to make it worth your while. Maybe open one of them up and see what’s inside.

I wouldn't have bought them at this price at all had I known they were lower capacity, for sure at minimum I will require a partial refund depending on what I find.

I can't tear one open until I know whether I'm going to be forced to return them or not, and I don't have a heat gun to try to get it apart cleanly either so I'd have to either buy a heat gun or do like Will does and use an oscillating saw (which I do have.)

 

[Supervstech]

160Wh/kg is the best possible ratio for LFP…
34lbs would be around 16 kg, so, 16*160 is 2560 Wh, or 200Ah at 12.8V

 

[oregonsun]

160Wh/kg is the best possible ratio for LFP…
34lbs would be around 16 kg, so, 16*160 is 2560 Wh, or 200Ah at 12.8V

Thank you for knowing your stuff and sharing, that sounds encouraging.
I guess we will see how this turns out, maybe there is a tiny chance it's not a scam.

I don't have a charger that is made for single 12v lipo to get full capacity, hopefully the 48v growatt can charge them in series off solar enough to figure this out tomorrow. Anything I should know about the growatt voltage settings to help ensure I get full capacity? I'm just using the settings amperetime gave me two years ago for the heavier weight batteries from that time.
19 58.4
20 55.2
21 42.0

Ok?

 

[Supervstech]

Thank you for knowing your stuff and sharing, that sounds encouraging.
I guess we will see how this turns out, maybe there is a tiny chance it's not a scam.

I don't have a charger that is made for single 12v lipo to get full capacity, hopefully the 48v growatt can charge them in series off solar enough to figure this out tomorrow. Anything I should know about the growatt voltage settings to help ensure I get full capacity? I'm just using the settings amperetime gave me two years ago for the heavier weight batteries from that time.
19 58.4
20 55.2
21 42.0

Ok?

Oh, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a scam… but at least it is theoretically possible.

 

[oregonsun]

Oh, I’d be surprised if it wasn’t a scam… but at least it is theoretically possible.

Yes same here, I just gave it a tiny chance after you said that.

Li time has their new 12v 100ah mini listed as the smallest and lightest 100ah battery available today (that could be marketing bs too though, who knows) and that is 19lbs, so this 200ah would be 4lbs lighter than two of those in comparison.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Yes same here, I just gave it a tiny chance after you said that.

Li time has their new 12v 100ah mini listed as the smallest and lightest 100ah battery available today (that could be marketing bs too though, who knows) and that is 19lbs, so this 200ah would be 4lbs lighter than two of those in comparison.

We have a 200Ah Powerurus. It ticked all the boxes and for a good price. But at 60+ pounds and almost 2 feet long, the thing is just huge! I know from Will's teardown of the 100Ah model, that it's full of sticky black foam. Which is actually good for our mobile application for vibration cushioning, but part of me would love to have 9-14" of ultra valuable space back in the tiny spot where 90% of the solar equipment is installed, had I gone with something like one of the Sun Fun Kits pre-builts that are very compact in comparison.

 

[oregonsun]

We have a 200Ah Powerurus. It ticked all the boxes and for a good price. But at 60+ pounds and almost 2 feet long, the thing is just huge! I know from Will's teardown of the 100Ah model, that it's full of sticky black foam. Which is actually good for our mobile application for vibration cushioning, but part of me would love to have 9-14" of ultra valuable space back in the tiny spot where 90% of the solar equipment is installed, had I gone with something like one of the Sun Fun Kits pre-builts that are very compact in comparison.

66lbs? Wow. I'd be worried about that too, that's out of line with the standard of the rest of the clones.

The chinese sure do come up with some strange product names. PowerUrus?

 

[Tomthumb62]

66lbs? Wow. I'd be worried about that too, that's out of line with the standard of the rest of the clones.

The chinese sure do come up with some strange product names. PowerUrus?

Powerurus = "Power Bear". I kinda like it, lol. Yep, just looked it up again - 63lbs or 28.5kg. Will actually said he thought this was going to be yet another really bad cheap clone like so many others, because it uses the exact same case as the others. But when he tore it down, he was pleasantly surprised at what he found and continued to rip on Roypow for making a mistake of using the case that they did. It makes it look much cheaper than it actually is (in build quality).

 

[oregonsun]

We have a 200Ah Powerurus. It ticked all the boxes and for a good price. But at 60+ pounds and almost 2 feet long, the thing is just huge! I know from Will's teardown of the 100Ah model, that it's full of sticky black foam. Which is actually good for our mobile application for vibration cushioning, but part of me would love to have 9-14" of ultra valuable space back in the tiny spot where 90% of the solar equipment is installed, had I gone with something like one of the Sun Fun Kits pre-builts that are very compact in comparison.

BTW I forgot to mention, it's a lot easier to just buy a larger rig than it is to try to shoehorn stuff as carefully as possible into a smaller one.
I have an 18' cargo area widebody tall roof stepvan for this reason rather than a normal van conversion, had to search for months to find one with a 4 cyl cummins engine so it wouldn't cost any more to drive than a normal full size van. It gets between 16 and 19mpg and has the space needed for tons of solar panels on the roof.

 

[Tomthumb62]

BTW I forgot to mention, it's a lot easier to just buy a larger rig than it is to try to shoehorn stuff as carefully as possible into a smaller one.
I have an 18' cargo area widebody tall roof stepvan for this reason rather than a normal van conversion, had to search for months to find one with a 4 cyl cummins engine so it wouldn't cost any more to drive than a normal full size van. It gets between 16 and 19mpg and has the space needed for tons of solar panels on the roof.

Except that our rig is a custom thing. Built from scratch by a now deceased family member. It’s beautiful. It turns heads everywhere we go.

But were it an off the shelf thing, then yeah, a few extra feet would make a big difference.

 

[oregonsun]

Except that our rig is a custom thing. Built from scratch by a now deceased family member. It’s beautiful. It turns heads everywhere we go.

But were it an off the shelf thing, then yeah, a few extra feet would make a big difference.

Oh that's different, sentimental value and all.
Sounds cool, do you have pictures or video's or is it on a web page somewhere? I love seeing cool builds.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Oh that's different, sentimental value and all.
Sounds cool, do you have pictures or video's or is it on a web page somewhere? I love seeing cool builds.

Sorry no photos. I’m a bit stuck on my anonymity here on the webs (though Google surely knows exactly who I am lol), so I won’t be sharing any photos or videos. We aren’t instantgrammers lol.

 

[oregonsun]

Ok the results are in. 100% scam. Not 25% scam, not 50% scam, 100% scam.

I had four of these new batteries connected to my existing growatt and charging by 2:45pm today, they started out with three of them showing 12.6v out of the box and one showing 13.1v out of the box.

By 2:55 just 10 minutes later the string reported full at a voltage of 58.4 combined and it was left just taking in a dribble of 50w or so.
I forced them to stay at 58.3 taking every drop in they could until they would take no more current at all which took until 3:15pm

I disconnected solar and began discharging at 3:30pm settling at just under 1kw load, and the batteries dropped to 42v combined and shut off the inverter by 4:00pm just 1/2 hour after starting.

What does that math work out to, a total battery capacity of 5ah each? There must be a brick and a tiny used 12v pack in each one.

While this was going on I received a dummy delivery on the original tracking number of some unrelated box of plastic garbage that has nothing to do with what I bought and weighs under 1lb delivered to my mail box.

Scam scam scam, this is a complete scam from every angle.

What's next? How do I explain all this to ebay and return all this stuff and get all my money back? Ebay only has the tracking number of the 1lb box of unrelated junk I received from USPS as a decoy shipment today, they do not have the tracking numbers of the scam batteries that came fedex.

How does a scam like this play out to where I get covered fully by ebay's money back guarantee? How do I make them understand all this?

 

[Supervstech]

Ok the results are in. 100% scam. Not 25% scam, not 50% scam, 100% scam.

I had four of these new batteries connected to my existing growatt and charging by 2:45pm today, they started out with three of them showing 12.6v out of the box and one showing 13.1v out of the box.

By 2:55 just 10 minutes later the string reported full at a voltage of 58.4 combined and it was left just taking in a dribble of 50w or so.
I forced them to stay at 58.3 taking every drop in they could until they would take no more current at all which took until 3:15pm

I disconnected solar and began discharging at 3:30pm settling at just under 1kw load, and the batteries dropped to 42v combined and shut off the inverter by 4:00pm just 1/2 hour after starting.

What does that math work out to, a total battery capacity of 5ah each? There must be a brick and a tiny used 12v pack in each one.

While this was going on I received a dummy delivery on the original tracking number of some unrelated box of plastic garbage that has nothing to do with what I bought and weighs under 1lb delivered to my mail box.

Scam scam scam, this is a complete scam from every angle.

What's next? How do I explain all this to ebay and return all this stuff and get all my money back? Ebay only has the tracking number of the 1lb box of unrelated junk I received from USPS as a decoy shipment today, they do not have the tracking numbers of the scam batteries that came fedex.

How does a scam like this play out to where I get covered fully by ebay's money back guarantee? How do I make them understand all this?

I would contact the seller, report the under performing batteries and request a refund.
Then when they offer you the $10coupon or ignore you, just hit the report and request refund for misrepresented product...

 

[Supervstech]

However
...
You need to charge them to 100% full individually before you put them in series.

 

[oregonsun]

However
...
You need to charge them to 100% full individually before you put them in series.

I don't have a charger designed for 12v lipo, I have three that are just lead acid chargers.

However I changed the settings in the growatt to force the string to stay at 58.3 until they wouldn't take another drop of current, that is 14.575V ea and I let them take all the current they could until they stopped, so I don't see how an individual 12v charger would make them take any more.

 

[Tomthumb62]

Ok the results are in. 100% scam. Not 25% scam, not 50% scam, 100% scam.

I had four of these new batteries connected to my existing growatt and charging by 2:45pm today, they started out with three of them showing 12.6v out of the box and one showing 13.1v out of the box.

By 2:55 just 10 minutes later the string reported full at a voltage of 58.4 combined and it was left just taking in a dribble of 50w or so.
I forced them to stay at 58.3 taking every drop in they could until they would take no more current at all which took until 3:15pm

I disconnected solar and began discharging at 3:30pm settling at just under 1kw load, and the batteries dropped to 42v combined and shut off the inverter by 4:00pm just 1/2 hour after starting.

What does that math work out to, a total battery capacity of 5ah each? There must be a brick and a tiny used 12v pack in each one.

While this was going on I received a dummy delivery on the original tracking number of some unrelated box of plastic garbage that has nothing to do with what I bought and weighs under 1lb delivered to my mail box.

Scam scam scam, this is a complete scam from every angle.

What's next? How do I explain all this to ebay and return all this stuff and get all my money back? Ebay only has the tracking number of the 1lb box of unrelated junk I received from USPS as a decoy shipment today, they do not have the tracking numbers of the scam batteries that came fedex.

How does a scam like this play out to where I get covered fully by ebay's money back guarantee? How do I make them understand all this?

Yes, x2 what @Supervstech said. If the seller doesn't give you full satisfaction, then you take photos/screenshots of your system and the results you are getting. They may not understand all the tech details of it all, but it is the best evidence you have. And when you say, "The seller is unwilling to help me here, I believe I've been scammed; or, the seller has ghosted me since I requested a refund," ebay will often side with you. If you need to, there's a button on every order to report an issue to ebay. Ebay will automatically open a case to work on your behalf. In many cases, the seller doesn't respond in the required time frame and then you win the case by default and ebay will force the refund for you.

 

[Supervstech]

I don't have a charger designed for 12v lipo, I have three that are just lead acid chargers.

However I changed the settings in the growatt to force the string to stay at 58.3 until they wouldn't take another drop of current, that is 14.575V ea and I let them take all the current they could until they stopped, so I don't see how an individual 12v charger would make them take any more.

Easy...
With them in series, the bank can absorb out of sequence, and let one fill to brim with the others not getting full charge.

Id hook up the lead acid chargers to each battery individually...
Once they are all at 13.8 or so for a few hours they are full...
Then put them in series...

 

[oregonsun]

I started the string charging again at 4:20pm taking in around only 600w, they are already full now by 5:05pm, and sitting at

Easy...
With them in series, the bank can absorb out of sequence, and let one fill to brim with the others not getting full charge.

Id hook up the lead acid chargers to each battery individually...
Once they are all at 13.8 or so for a few hours they are full...
Then put them in series...

Ok thanks will try that this evening.

Before you suggested that I started the string charging again at 4:20pm taking in around only 600w, they are already nearly full now and have only been willing to take in 53w since 5:05pm.

 

[golfreak12]

Chance are those batteries are much less capacity then the 200ah advertised.
I have 2 x 12v in series 24v @ 120ah and I was looking for a 24v battery somewhere close to that capacity so I can hook them in parallel to expand my system without wasting my original batteries.
I found this BTR Power 24v 140ah that is much lighter than any other 24v 100ah.
I tried looking for a review for this battery with no luck. After further research, it's lighter because it uses pouch cells.
I took a shot anyway as it was the same price as a 24v 100ah.
After 4 rounds of testing, I get around 3200wh(125ah) vs advertised 3584wh(140ah).
I'm in the process of trying to get them to replace the battery for me or some type of compensation.