DIY LiFePO4 Cost Analysis - February 2022 Edition

[michael d]

"Whatcha wanna do..."
You whipper-snappers are probly too young for dat. LOL
Pure Prairie League

good tunes

 

[Loadtoad]

"Whatcha wanna do..."
You whipper-snappers are probly too young for dat. LOL
Pure Prairie League

Being a child of the sixties, teenager during that time those bands are all known to me and I still listen to their music. Good stuff.

 

[michael d]

what is really interesting is the fact that no one has ever met any of these mystical amie /amy seller over the internet. you are likely conversing with a computer generated translation from some ladyboy... can you prove otherwise....??? ???

I think you must use a credit card to have any leverage when you get scammed... that will be your only recourse to not settle for being scammed in the first place.

all these cells are coming from a very few actual manufacturing plants in China. and the 2nd level cells that do not meet the grade "A" standards are being resold. by numerous resellers...

will prose got scammed several times....but he filed claims for refunds most of the time I bet...
he even showed how some were selling used cells with scratched-off bar codes etc.

the one thing he has done is point out some of the bad ones and what is wrong with their products from his point of view and experience using batteries in various off-grid setups.
what I notice is the corporate overseas sellers infiltrating the forum....
I do not care one way or another what country, ethnicity etc one if from.....
I just like the old way >>> a person's word is good....
but lots of garbage is sold // pawned off on people who do not take the time to do the research...

did you send money to get the 26 million dollars in the Nigerian internet scams??? I hope not.
good luck all....

buy tools, guns, and gold!!! i also like real estate as an investment but takes a lot of management time...

I bought the new Riden 6024 but have not assembled it yet... too many things going on right now. but I recommend the Riden for charging the LiFePO4 cells. I charge 4 at a time connected in parallel for the initial top balance. the Riden 6018 took 2 days to do 4 at one time!

32 5.3 kg 280Ah EVE LF280K cells weigh 169.6kg or roughly 373.12 pounds but they also have

3.2 nominal volts X 280 Ah (amp hour) X 32 cell = 28,672 Wh potential capacity for a lot less money out of your pocket than the prefab server rack batteries.... also may be abbreviated as 28.672 KWh.... about $4200 in December 2021... delivered from China through Alibaba. more or less..
yes have to add in a BMS and some cabling and your DIY time....

the 100 amp server rack are $1500 plus shipping for about 5 KWh ....
the server rack battery looks good >>> plug and play >>>> more or less but very expensive for any real capacity....

one must compare the KWh to compare apples to apples....
what is the price per KWh shipped to your door????

 

[Browneye]

Buying cells from Amy Zheng was a perfect transaction. I got good product and excellent service.
They are trying to establish distribution here where the demand is. They were doing a very good job.

 

[Rossman]

but lots of garbage is sold // pawned off on people who do not take the time to do the research...

I mean, this applies to almost everything in life, whether you are buying lithium cells from china, new microwave at target, or even a house.

You know the old saying: a fool and their money are soon parted

 

[EricBarbour]

a fool and their money are soon parted

And there seems to be an amazing load of fools on the DIY Electric Car forum. Building an EV, or even simply converting an old car to electric, is a LOT more difficult than building a solar/battery power system. Yet I see the dumbest questions and answers over there routinely.

 

[Abson]

Thanks, this is a great thread.
I looked at the replies to the thread and watched how it went from discussing DIY costs to discussing quality suppliers.? But it seems that this forum is tailor-made for Amy (Luyuan) and Docan. Well, it's their good reputation that makes them win.
When I search for other suppliers here, little or no information is displayed. And my question here is who has worked with Eva (BatteryFinds) and I want to get more information about Eva.

 

[michael d]

I mean, this applies to almost everything in life, whether you are buying lithium cells from china, new microwave at target, or even a house.

You know the old saying: a fool and their money are soon parted

unfortunately, a lot of things seem to be made to purposely fail in a short time so you have to replace it....

 

[Rossman]

unfortunately, a lot of things seem to be made to purposely fail in a short time so you have to replace it....

This is the natural conclusion to capitalism, where consumption is the primary driver of the economy.

 

[michael d]

This is the natural conclusion to capitalism, where consumption is the primary driver of the economy.

(((murphy's law.... the most expensive part will fail in sacrifice for the cheap inexpensive part.... ))) Mike Holt said that (not word for word so don't quote me) on one of his NEC (national electric code) training videos.....
In the USA, the NEC is to protect you from fire issues,,, but all connections must be made properly and torqued to the manufactures specifications... it is a guideline enforced in most new building construction... by government hired inspectors etc...

(Murphy's Law) that is true when one does not use good parts to protect the electric system you are assembling for you and your family....
always do your best!!!
cheers all,,,,

I still think the intent of this thread is to compare the prices of building your own LiFePO4 battery DIY style compared to the more expensive plug and play server rack style batteries unless I missed something.... (very likey) ??

Have a great day?

 

[Browneye]

Thanks, this is a great thread.
I looked at the replies to the thread and watched how it went from discussing DIY costs to discussing quality suppliers.? But it seems that this forum is tailor-made for Amy (Luyuan) and Docan. Well, it's their good reputation that makes them win.
When I search for other suppliers here, little or no information is displayed. And my question here is who has worked with Eva (BatteryFinds) and I want to get more information about Eva.

Yeah, the thread jacking is BS. They can post that crap somewhere else. Cells are not made to fail.

Do you mean EVE cells? Looks like they are listing EVE and Lishen, CATL, etc. cells on BatteryFinds.com - the big blue prismatic cells we can get over here from China. Yes, they are good cells, but I can't tell you anything about the source. Anyone can put up a website and sell on aliexpress or alibaba. It appears this site sells direct - shipping included with CC payment. I did not explore lead times.

Prismatic cells that are resold by distributors are generally A- grade or less - the A+ cells are tested and matched and provide with a report, listed as such, and carry a pricing premium. Batteryfinds appears to be a reseller based out of China, according to their site. Pricing does not appear to especially competitive. For example, I gave $458 all in to get four EVE LF230 cells last December.

By the time my pack was built I had spent nearly twice that for everything to make it all work - tools and parts, case material, etc. The good news is you cannot buy a 230A OTS battery for $800, so it's a win.

 

[michael d]

3.2nominal volts/cell X 230Ah X 4 cells = 2944Wh or 2.944 KWh for $458 delivered for the cells. or $114.5 per cell...
just analyzing/calculating the cost a bit. (feel free to correct me if I make an error!)?
Will Prowse promoted figuring everything in Wh or KWh but yet I see numbers on some videos based on Ah,,,, go figure...
I think that alone confuses some folks... makes me have to look at it twice... and I like math ....

Ah = Amp hour
Wh = Watt-hour
volts x amps = Watts

even at $800 for a few more pieces and parts and the opportunity to own some quality tools,,,, the DIY LiFePO4 build is still more economical hands down than the prefab server rack plug and play....

I personally use one Electrodacus SBMS0 as my BMS for 32 cells without any problems...it balances the cells as it is charging from the Electrodacus DSSR20's; you could do other MPPT type solar charge controllers and 12 or 24 volts with the Electrodacus SBMS0 but it does not work with 48-volt battery builds...
BMS = Battery management system ( a must-have item )!

my PV system is not like all as mine is strictly an off-grid DIY build and is not mobile in any way as it is used to power things on the farm...

shipping to your door is a huge expense factor either way... the DIY LiFePO4 battery builds or the plug-and-play server rack style prefab batteries.... shipping cost may become a bigger factor... I hope not...?

 

[Browneye]

I did not want to build a battery. My RV house batteries, the golf-cart lead acids were 7 years old with one cell starting to drop SG. I was simply going to replace them with Crown or Trojan of the same type. We've owned the coach since it was new in 2004, the deep-cycle marine ones it came with went south within a year or two and were replaced by the first set of Interstate GC2's. Then again 7 years later - seemed to be how long I could get them to last.

I spent months shopping for prebuilt options for a couple of hundred amp-hour option. Chins, AmpereTime, as examples. I got quotes from BigBattery, and spoke with their supplier BatteryEvo, did not get the warm and fuzzies. At least they admitted they were selling packs with used cells. That's not the route I wanted to take, warranty or not. And they weren't cheap - about a grand for a sub-200A pack.

The OTS packs like Chins or AmpereTime were still expensive as well, the 200A pack size option was the best for my application. BattleBorn was out of the question, I was not willing to drop $1600 for two of their batteries.

I got talked into buying cells and building my own. Lots of help here, and good referrals on sources for cells and parts. Bought some new tools to make cables, wire, bms, case materials, and updated charging appliances for the coach - solar controller and app, dc to dc, new converter-charger, etc. I ended up spending a couple of thousand, but would never have been able to accomplish the project without the help I got here - PRICELESS!!

 

[Steve_S]

I'm sure it has already been raised through the thread, when DIY'ing your batteries there are tools and equipment required. Some people who are into electronics and electrical work they have a head start but that's not everyone, not most in fact.
Multimeters, Small Sockets, Screwdrivers, Heat Gun, Crimpers (Batt Cable, Insulated & Non-insulated wire), strippers/cutters and more, just to name the obvious. Power Supplies for charging & maybe a battery tester or more if you start getting deeper in AND Once the bug hits you, your wallet will squeal ! Then the spouse quickly thereafter, as sure as the sun rises in the east!

 

[Horsefly]

I'm sure it has already been raised through the thread, when DIY'ing your batteries there are tools and equipment required. Some people who are into electronics and electrical work they have a head start but that's not everyone, not most in fact.
Multimeters, Small Sockets, Screwdrivers, Heat Gun, Crimpers (Batt Cable, Insulated & Non-insulated wire), strippers/cutters and more, just to name the obvious. Power Supplies for charging & maybe a battery tester or more if you start getting deeper in AND Once the bug hits you, your wallet will squeal ! Then the spouse quickly thereafter, as sure as the sun rises in the east!

Spot on @Steve_S - I actually did have a hobby of electrical and electronics, so did already have 3 different multimeters, a heat gun, and a hydraulic crimper. And yet, somehow I spent at least twice what I spent on cells for the other stuff.

Of course, now that I have this stuff, it is tempting to build more DIY batteries. I just need to find some excuses.

 

[michael d]

yes, I also already had the hydraulic crimper for the lead-acid battery bank, multimeters, and a few things, yes, the wife hates my tools, but I manage and repair houses also.?

the LIFePO4 has been the learning curve for me....

solar is a good reason to buy/upgrade to better quality tools, and "uncle Sam" aka the IRS in the USA gives a generous 26 percent tax credit...for off-grid Solar builds. as long as they have that, it makes a lot more sense economically in the USA. all the rental properties will be off-grid solar PV powered,,,, maybe one day...?

the building of DIY batteries and solar PV systems >>> gets a lot more economical the more you do.... at least for me it did. ? thanks to The tax credit and economy of scale...

for some, it will cost more than expected/ projected....?

 

[Browneye]

Spot on @Steve_S - I actually did have a hobby of electrical and electronics, so did already have 3 different multimeters, a heat gun, and a hydraulic crimper. And yet, somehow I spent at least twice what I spent on cells for the other stuff.

Of course, now that I have this stuff, it is tempting to build more DIY batteries. I just need to find some excuses.

Same. Already had a lot of the stuff. The temco hammer crimper I got worked just fine for this stuff. If I was doing high-current setup I would probly opt for something fancier.

And I do too. So, why do I need another 230A battery pack in the RV???
Oh I know...so I can run the air without the generator.

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

I'm sure it has already been raised through the thread, when DIY'ing your batteries there are tools and equipment required. Some people who are into electronics and electrical work they have a head start but that's not everyone, not most in fact.
Multimeters, Small Sockets, Screwdrivers, Heat Gun, Crimpers (Batt Cable, Insulated & Non-insulated wire), strippers/cutters and more, just to name the obvious. Power Supplies for charging & maybe a battery tester or more if you start getting deeper in AND Once the bug hits you, your wallet will squeal ! Then the spouse quickly thereafter, as sure as the sun rises in the east!

If you buy an off the shelf battery you also need to make cables to hook them up to an inverter, tools to connect multiple units to a bus bar, current clamp to check power draw between batteries, you still want a multi meter to check / double check polarity and voltage, etc.

 

[Bluedog225]

I’m in houston this morning. I thought I might drop by Docan. Will call first. I’ve got the wife’s Camry. How many cells can I fit? I’ve got most of the trunk space available. Would like 32. But will settle for 16. Need to leave them in the packaging (I think).

 

[sidpost]

Good luck. The boxes contain 2 batteries and foam. I doubt they will fit your Camry. They deliver for free so, that's the option I am going to take even though I live in East Texas and head that direction 3 or 4 times a year.