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DIY Solar forum dodging geo-political context?

Many of the world's highest quality products are manufactured in China, so can't dismiss them completely.
Because it is also highly cost competitive, many companies choose manufacturing there rather than being at a disadvantage in the market.

There is also a huge market for bottom of the barrel junk, so Caveat Emptor, and look for track record.
 
Many of the world's highest quality products are manufactured in China, so can't dismiss them completely.
Because it is also highly cost competitive, many companies choose manufacturing there rather than being at a disadvantage in the market.

There is also a huge market for bottom of the barrel junk, so Caveat Emptor, and look for track record.
The Chinese Communist party has manipulated its currency exchange rate to compete, and conquer the global economy. By buying their dumped price, freight beat up products, we are saying that their system is the superior one. It's similar to sending your own neck to their gallows.
 
Congrats to Germany. A shame the German Government was buying all that Russian gas, when it has such a geat player under its wings

At one point SMA acquired a quality inverter manufacturer in China, and had them make inverters for the US market. I saw an article (can't find it now) which said this development was not well received and SMA gave up on that approach. The article included a tear-down, noting differences in the parts. Some boards assembled in China, some in Germany, and they noted that the failures which did occur were of the German manufactured boards.

Some of their products are made elsewhere, for tariff reasons. I bought a pallet of their inverters from a Canadian company, and because they were manufactured in Canada it was duty free. Their products probably have a higher percentage European components than most. Recently, SMA said some units delivered would lack Bluetooth due to supply chain issues. Obviously recent computer technology stuff is more likely to be TSMC and other manufacturers.
 
Forgive me, but I think it is NOT the place for politics or religion or any political phobia like China phobia.

This is a technical self-help group.

Please remove this thread or put it to chit-chat ❗
 
Forgive me, but I think it is NOT the place for politics or religion or any political phobia like China phobia.

This is a technical self-help group.

Please remove this thread or put it to chit-chat ❗
China phobia? Is it possible that DIY Solar forum is an informal Channel of the CCP?
 
The Chinese Communist party has manipulated its currency exchange rate to compete, and conquer the global economy. By buying their dumped price, freight beat up products, we are saying that their system is the superior one. It's similar to sending your own neck to their gallows.

We're capitalists; well sell you the rope ;)

China obviously has better long-term planning than the US, and has intelligent people. The US has quarterly report outlook and a much wider bell-shaped curve.
They were able to acquire technology as part of the Faustian bargain we made. As their currency strengthened and wages increased, that endangered the nation's prosperity and technology acquisition. But holding down their exchange rate, it reduced buying power of their citizens and manufacturing costs for the U.S., otherwise would be lost quicker to places like Vietnam.
The U.S. operates by borrowing to spend more than they earn, then devaluing the dollar and doing it again.
At this point China is demonstrating quite advanced technological capabilities, e.g. AI powered robot on Mars. Israel reportedly has also found applications for AI powered robots. The U.S. meanwhile concerns itself with issues that likely make it the laughing stock of the world.
 
We're capitalists; well sell you the rope ;)

China obviously has better long-term planning than the US, and has intelligent people...

We are more interested in robot vacuum cleaners. lol
mrzed might very well be right in that we're drifting away from the subject. I love America for many good things, just as I love China for all the good they have to deliver.
I still want to find the DIY solar parts that doesn't wreck the world. Otherwhise we might as well keep pumping up that Oil.
 
It is very easy to get moved out of the way. It's true that the thread drifted of in the last sections, but the first messages were very much generic DIY solar.
 
Rule:
  • Posts should stay on topic. If you post your favorite music video or a political rant on a thread about batteries, it will be deleted.
Instead of deleting individual posts, I moved the entire thread. Feel free to keep discussing, even if off-topic.
 
I guess I'm saying don't discount Chinese solar products, which will include some of the best and some of the worst.
I put in SMA almost 20 years ago and developed brand loyalty. They might meet your needs, unless you want a lower price point.

Here in the U.S. I figure $1/watt for grid tied PV, and $0.025/kWh for the power it produces (all materials, assume DIY labor is free.)
Battery inverters span a large price range, from SMA $0.50 to $1.00/W and other brands can be as high down to maybe 20% as much.
Batteries themselves are more expensive that we'd like. I consider reducing use of batteries the main way to save money.
 
Rule:
  • Posts should stay on topic. If you post your favorite music video or a political rant on a thread about batteries, it will be deleted.
Instead of deleting individual posts, I moved the entire thread. Feel free to keep discussing, even if off-topic.
This thread is about the geo-political context of DIY solar forum. I find it hard to find sustainable equipment to use here because Everything here is centered around China producing us into global mass extinction.
 
I guess I'm saying don't discount Chinese solar products, which will include some of the best and some of the worst.
I put in SMA almost 20 years ago and developed brand loyalty. They might meet your needs, unless you want a lower price point.

Here in the U.S. I figure $1/watt for grid tied PV, and $0.025/kWh for the power it produces (all materials, assume DIY labor is free.)
Battery inverters span a large price range, from SMA $0.50 to $1.00/W and other brands can be as high down to maybe 20% as much.
Batteries themselves are more expensive that we'd like. I consider reducing use of batteries the main way to save money.
For me the price is less important than actually receiving equipment that work for a long time, and doesn't cause global annihilation. Will that yellow box charge a 24 or a 48 volt system?
 
Sunny Island is 48V, can be configured for 42V to 52V nominal lead-acid (if one 2V cell fails it can be removed.)
It also supports lithium batteries of various chemistries, given as compatible BMS. Several name-brand (expensive) batteries are available, and REC is a BMS available for DIY batteries that can communicate with it.

Sunny Boy Storage uses a 400V lithium battery (really 48V with bidirectional converter to 400V), primarily/only expensive commercial batteries.

There used to be some lower voltage battery inverters from SMA for lower wattage systems in the 220V European market. I don't see those now.
SMA also has 70kW to 4MW systems for commercial and utility scale plants.

I think Sunny Boy Storage is more focused on peak shaving. It can make an off-grid or backup system, but has limited surge capability.
Sunny Island current US model doesn't have much for peak shaving, but could disconnect and run on battery.
There is a new raintight European Sunny Island, wouldn't be surprised if they put new grid/tariff related features in it.
There is also an internet gateway for web-based monitoring and participating in spot markets.

My setup has older model Sunny Boy GT PV inverters and is grid-connected 99.9% of the time for net-metering. When grid goes down it runs on a small battery, mostly manages the PV production to match house loads.

Prices are around $5000 for one 6kW Sunny Island and $2000 for one 7.7kW Sunny Boy. That and a battery and panels are about all that's needed for a 220V system (as opposed to US 120/240V split-phase.) Up to 12kW of GT PV can be used with one Sunny Island. Stack more for larger system or connect as 3-phase.

They offer 20 year warranty for the PV inverter (which only operates when the sun is up) and 10 year for the battery inverter which would operate 24/7. So that tells you there is confidence it will last at least that long. From my experience with Sunny Boys, 5 units and a couple failures in 17 years, I calculated 35 years MTBF.
 
SMA solar equipment seem to be high in demand now, judging from recent news, but shipping disruptions are affecting their sales figures.
So it's either Victron, or SMA?
A lot of sailors choose Victron, since they seem water resistant. and water resiliant. SMA does not really seem to target DIYers and home steaders with that price. I sincerely hope the company survive long enough to honor all their waranty claims.
 
SMA made inverters for railway cars, I suppose providing AC power for occupants from the high voltage DC powering the train.
They've made PV and battery inverters for decades. In the early 2000's, when California had rebates for solar, SMA was > 50% of all installations and 20 other brands made up the remaining < 50%. There are more viable quality competitors now, at least for GT PV.

People here have had warranty replacements, including some who bought equipment from the defunct DC Solar.
Primarily, the equipment has a low failure rate. I had one die in warranty with a blown up PCB trace, and SMA covered shipping and swapped a board. One other blew a crater in a power transistor and I took it out of service. Meant to repair some day but bought later models for 20% the original price.

They're not cheap, but definitely worth it if your loads include motor surges or if you have lead-acid batteries which they have a reputation for taking good care of. For U.S. split-phase we either need two or a transformer but you can use one. The cost is still high, and I only put in 4x because I got a liquidation (bankruptcy) deal. For a system with larger PV array and battery, inverter is just a portion of the cost.

Schneider, Outback, Midnight, some others here also have a good reputation. I just don't know about availability and support in Israel. SMA being there is a plus.
 
Expensive SMA seems a bit overkill for my temporary solar work shed.

I think me DIY-ing together my whole system will do more for changing the geo political context of DIY Solar than Me pushing more money into SMA.
 
Also, this thread was supposed to be about D I Y solar forum and its responsibility towards not only US citizens, but all of us. By promoting us to buy from Autocracies, we arrive into living in an autocracy.
 
Expensive SMA seems a bit overkill for my temporary solar work shed.

I think me DIY-ing together my whole system will do more for changing the geo political context of DIY Solar than Me pushing more money into SMA.

Consider Outback, which shares DNA with Midnight and Trace.
Of course, have to start with operating and surge wattage requirement.



Unless by "DIY-ing" you mean designing your own inverter.
 
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