Do I crimp this breaker feed?

[FlintHills]

So I'm building a 16s pack of 230Ah from Luyuan, complete with box/BMS, and included is this cable with a loosely fitted ferrule, which is to be fed into the breaker.

The ferrule is very thin, so maybe the clamp on the breaker tightens it all up. Or am I supposed to crimp it beforehand? Amy's assembly video shows a crimped cable end going into the breaker, not this arrangement. I have a Temco hammer crimper, but that seems like overkill. Might tear the ferrule?

Thanks, all.

0 new items by Andy Badeker

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[LakeHouse]

Crimp it before installing using ferrule crimping tool. They’re dirt cheap on amazon and usually come with a box of ferrules. You won’t regret the purchase when you’re wiring up the rest of the small parts of your system.

 

[FlintHills]

All right; thanks. I'll round one up.

 

[robbob2112]

note - the amazon ferrules are pretty worthless - wrong length, wrong size, aluminum or steel verse copper, etc. -- ferrulesdirect is the place to get the real things verse the fake stuff... included in the link are instructions on what to look for. It looked to me like the ferrule supplied was to big for the purpose - the wire should fit and slide in with no slop.

Post in thread 'Robbob2112 Answer thread'

May 24, 2024

#6 - Ferrule usage

When to use ferrules and when not to use them. This is sometimes hotly debated depending on the type of terminal block

Use them when -
The screw terminal just has the screw directly contacting the wire and the wire is fine stranded.
When the mfg calls for them

When not to use them -
On stranded THHN when the screw pushes on the wires directly unless the mfg calls for it
when the mfg says NO - like the victron MPPT
In any sort of spring push connection like wego unless they are called for
on any sort of solid wire.

Optional -
When the screw pushes down a plate that...

• robbob2112

 

[FlintHills]

OK, thanks; I've seen ferrulesdirect mentioned before. This particular ferrule feels like the right size for the wire; there's no slop but it does rotate freely.
I did just receive my Amazon crimper. Is it usual for the jaws/dies to be so narrow, like maybe 3/16"? I had to take several bites on this particular ferrule, and the results don't inspire confidence. It's tight-ish; I could probably pull it off if I wanted to.
I have a hammer crimper but thought it might be overkill for this ferrule.

 

[FlintHills]

On second thought, in reviewing robbob's referenced post, this breaker might not even need the ferrule. Looks to me as if the plate will compress the bare wire just fine.

"Optional - When the screw pushes down a plate that is cupped so that it gathers the stranded wire together ..."

 

[LakeHouse]

Is it usual for the jaws/dies to be so narrow, like maybe 3/16"? I had to take several bites on this particular ferrule

That seems a little narrow, but generally it isn't a problem to have to crimp in more than one go.

the results don't inspire confidence. It's tight-ish; I could probably pull it off if I wanted to.

It certainly shouldn't fall off, and it should take some considerable effort to pull it off. But this isn't the same thing as crimping on a lug, where you absolutely should not be able to remove it without breaking something.
I mostly agree with @robbob2112's list, with the exception that I personally use them on any connection that involves fine-stranded wire unless the manufacturer explicitly recommends against it. I find it the only way to have any confidence that every strand is actually in the connector. Before and after crimping I can visually see that every strand has been captured, and I have complete confidence when I install the ferruled wire that nothing is going to escape.

 

[FlintHills]

OK, thanks. I took another whack at it and it's not coming off.
My issue at this point is that the cable takes a tight turn out of the breaker to get to the T-1 fuse holder, so I probably need to make a longer cable to de-stress the situation.

 

[robbob2112]

That seems a little narrow, but generally it isn't a problem to have to crimp in more than one go.

It certainly shouldn't fall off, and it should take some considerable effort to pull it off. But this isn't the same thing as crimping on a lug, where you absolutely should not be able to remove it without breaking something.
I mostly agree with @robbob2112's list, with the exception that I personally use them on any connection that involves fine-stranded wire unless the manufacturer explicitly recommends against it. I find it the only way to have any confidence that every strand is actually in the connector. Before and after crimping I can visually see that every strand has been captured, and I have complete confidence when I install the ferruled wire that nothing is going to escape.

I should probably go back to the list... putting fine strands into a terminal without ferrules is pretty much limited to the type used on Victron MPPT.

 

[Skypower]

So I'm building a 16s pack of 230Ah from Luyuan, complete with box/BMS, and included is this cable with a loosely fitted ferrule, which is to be fed into the breaker.

The ferrule is very thin, so maybe the clamp on the breaker tightens it all up. Or am I supposed to crimp it beforehand? Amy's assembly video shows a crimped cable end going into the breaker, not this arrangement. I have a Temco hammer crimper, but that seems like overkill. Might tear the ferrule?

Thanks, all.

0 new items by Andy Badeker

photos.app.goo.gl

Is that a breaker rated for at least 60 volts DC? Also pull test the wire and check the tightening after a day then again later. Some of those terminals are very poorly designed

 

[Skypower]

Is that a 6mm nut in the bottom of the terminal?

 

[FlintHills]

"Is that a breaker rated for at least 60 volts DC? Also pull test the wire and check the tightening after a day then again later. Some of those terminals are very poorly designed."
I will have to check. I remember it being short on details aside from a 200A rating.

 

[FlintHills]

Is that a 6mm nut in the bottom of the terminal?View attachment 240165

Clearly threaded, but I don't know what it's doing back there. No way to access it, short of dismantling the breaker.

 

[FlintHills]

I should probably go back to the list... putting fine strands into a terminal without ferrules is pretty much limited to the type used on Victron MPPT.

OK. Well, I've ordered two marine cables from batterycablesusa to replace the too-short items that came with the Luyuan box.
An additional thought: If I'm going to the trouble of adding a 400A T-class fuse to this setup, maybe I should dump the breaker entirely.

 

[HRTKD]

An additional thought: If I'm going to the trouble of adding a 400A T-class fuse to this setup, maybe I should dump the breaker entirely.

That's what I did. The Class T fuse is installed in my Luyuan box between the front face plate and the plate the BMS is mounted on.

A 400 amp fuse is likely too high of a rating for your battery/BMS. I'm using a 175 amp fuse for my 48 volt 280 Ah battery.

 

[robbob2112]

Were it me I would loose the breaker. You do need some sort of switch to kill power but that is usually in the negative battery line.

 

[FlintHills]

That's what I did. The Class T fuse is installed in my Luyuan box between the front face plate and the plate the BMS is mounted on.

A 400 amp fuse is likely too high of a rating for your battery/BMS. I'm using a 175 amp fuse for my 48 volt 280 Ah battery.

I was worried about the high draw of the Ranger's induction motor, so I went bigger.

 

[FlintHills]

Were it me I would loose the breaker. You do need some sort of switch to kill power but that is usually in the negative battery line.

There's a switch on the BMS screen. Also a key on the dash that energizes the contactor. But no other switch on the battery itself.