Does an Electric and Gas Hybrid water heater exist?

[Zwy]

You can always go diy lol.

Paint the barrel black and no need for being complicated.

 

[ULR]

Paint the barrel black and no need for being complicated.

About 5x the heating per area and no contamination from the metal of the glow plugs (which were designed for the inside of engines, not drinking water heaters).

(Put it under glass to avoid heat loss from conduction to the air and also recapture infrared re-radiation, which is below the passband of window glass - the original greenhouse effect.)

 

[WorldwideDave]

I am late to this thread, but looking to reduce my natural gas usage.

I already have a circulation pump that takes water out of the pool runs it through black PVC pipe and returns it to the pool.

The pool itself runs off solar panels, a big battery, an inverter, and a variable speed pump.

I’m curious to know how people are using a hot water heater or a heat pump to heat their pool. Are you pulling the pool water out and putting it into an electric hot water heater and then flowing it back into the pool? It would seem that the pool water would cause problems such as the water heater element wouldn’t like all the chlorine. also, because the inlet pipe is usually three-quarter inch on a hot water heater, and most pool pumps are one and a half or 2 inch pipes. I’m not seeing how you are circulating the water through the hot water heater. Maybe you have a dedicated pump from sea flow. Do you bypass the existing pool filter or add an external one?

Or are you adding cold water into the hot water heater, heating up the water with your extra electricity, and then dumping water into the pool once it is warm? I guess I would need to see some system diagrams to understand this. I understand that heating the water before it goes into the gas furnace would prevent the furnace from turning on, however a 50 gallon tank would be pumped out within just a few minutes, and because the pressure is high enough, the gas pool heater would probably click on.

Please show me pictures and explain your systems.

 

[pollenface]

Your best bet is to put them in series

I've always fantasized about this

 

[WorldwideDave]

Your best bet is to put them in series as @SparkyJJO said. Use as big a tank as you can, then you'll capture the maximum surplus solar.

Can you explain this setup with a diagram or photos please?

 

[wpns]

[Assuming your propane heater is set to 140 degrees, and your electric 'dump' load heater will also be set to 140 degrees.]

Doesn't need a diagram, just install a 120 gallon electric hot water heater, and pipe the 'hot' output to the 'cold' input of your propane heater. Your propane heater will always give you the same 140 degree water, but the amount of propane it burns will depend on how much spare solar you've used to preheat the water.

Control of your 'dump load' left as an exercise for the student, search the forum for _way_ too many answers.

 

[Zwy]

Can you explain this setup with a diagram or photos please?

How to install two water heaters

How to install two water heaters

waterheatertimer.org

 

[WorldwideDave]

How to install two water heaters

How to install two water heaters

waterheatertimer.org

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I see that 120 gallon hot water heater uses a three-quarter inch inlet and outlet. I also see they’re supposed to use potable water, not pool water. Also, they cost $2000.

I was seeking a diagram of how you would heat a pool with an electric hot water heater.

I don’t mention propane. I have natural gas master temp 4000 btu setup now with 2” pvc going in and out.

 

[wpns]

Sorry for any misunderstandings.

I see that 120 gallon hot water heater uses a three-quarter inch inlet and outlet. I also see they’re supposed to use potable water, not pool water. Also, they cost $2000.

I was seeking a diagram of how you would heat a pool with an electric hot water heater.

I don’t mention propane. I have natural gas master temp 4000 btu setup now with 2” pvc going in and out.

Sorry Dave, you highjacked the thread, then backed up in it to ask for details on series connections, then asked how that applies to a pool heater.

I wouldn’t use any domestic hot water fixtures or appliances to heat pool water, the chemistry (and likely the conductivity) is all wrong and will probably destroy the potable water heater in short order.

 

[400bird]

I'd set the gas water heater at a lower temp than than the primary/dimp electric. This will keep more of the load on the electric and the gas won't run until you start filling it will cold that from the depleted electric tank. Every hand wash will dump a little hot into the gas tank to warm it back up. In normal use, I'd expect to almost never run the gas and nearly always use the free electric, that is until there's it enough sun for the primary/dump load to stay hot.

 

[Suijkerbuijk]

Wy not a unit like this ?
We use it on boats
Its on propaan.

https://www.amazon.nl/CO-Z-Propaangas-doorstromer-waterverwarmer-Doorstroomverwarmer/dp/B09STNK6SG/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?crid=3A3GSIRM1DSB8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.o4kDMm_TP2g6pIShUmpFKGk-NwUeRQ1X9o7wz9PpMH850Z-EqlUWR72nGIPn3HpTt8-UHuX7padyvoR7cC8UzuC06Ga-BRRynZonXv6EVgB2OPFFH6xEutN7zxKVzZf9SnhDLjbFKC1Z70MUcjXCA9Cmy-e8onyv5CuW2AyacIgE7M3co2RNxh9LaGl8UskjMR-tjoK2PM0YdvfuC0I4Sw.bkQ7X1uBkikSH9nKIzOeXcsMK5IiQBx2DXy78NaIjd4&dib_tag=se&keywords=camping+geiser&qid=1729009219&sprefix=geizer%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-2

This electrische

https://www.amazon.nl/Doorstroomboiler-elektrische-doorstroomboiler-elektrisch-tankloos/dp/B0D3PSRJMC/ref=mp_s_a_1_22?crid=3A3GSIRM1DSB8&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.HF-prf63ZH5uO9c4uBbGzvN3NssnRtSQEPBiIhDbpCsAR0Lq9HoSZGnTAxuu15B0wTbB25Re_Y-NjCzLIkxuINfNqJl0cPJ-h1z5UgOQYXK6IDMocAWa028uP06BO2XQWpTwCUVYexqvXs7OiqMgeP6goanKR7VPpuIUzq0KfDOUgnLSNU9wYYnQe0VVadlq1wbq-cBmRaTywc5MJw-lSQ.FmozpyO1hgPPXzznZreU64IZcLOFUmABmcf6aHGNVbs&dib_tag=se&keywords=camping+geiser&qid=1729009244&sprefix=geizer%2Caps%2C126&sr=8-22

Set the electrical for the gas unit input for the summer so you use solar power.
And the winter you set it of and set the propaangas on.

You can even combine by set 2 connection on your hot water pipe with to close or open unit so you can select you like to use.

If you have a old boiler you can even set between them for hot water storage .

 

[WorldwideDave]

Sorry Dave, you highjacked the thread, then backed up in it to ask for details on series connections, then asked how that applies to a pool heater.

I wouldn’t use any domestic hot water fixtures or appliances to heat pool water, the chemistry (and likely the conductivity) is all wrong and will probably destroy the potable water heater in short order.

My bad. Started new thread.

 

[parksnorris]

I am late to this thread, but looking to reduce my natural gas usage.

I already have a circulation pump that takes water out of the pool runs it through black PVC pipe and returns it to the pool.

The pool itself runs off solar panels, a big battery, an inverter, and a variable speed pump.

I’m curious to know how people are using a hot water heater or a heat pump to heat their pool. Are you pulling the pool water out and putting it into an electric hot water heater and then flowing it back into the pool? It would seem that the pool water would cause problems such as the water heater element wouldn’t like all the chlorine. also, because the inlet pipe is usually three-quarter inch on a hot water heater, and most pool pumps are one and a half or 2 inch pipes. I’m not seeing how you are circulating the water through the hot water heater. Maybe you have a dedicated pump from sea flow. Do you bypass the existing pool filter or add an external one?

Or are you adding cold water into the hot water heater, heating up the water with your extra electricity, and then dumping water into the pool once it is warm? I guess I would need to see some system diagrams to understand this HVAC company in vaughan. I understand that heating the water before it goes into the gas furnace would prevent the furnace from turning on, however a 50 gallon tank would be pumped out within just a few minutes, and because the pressure is high enough, the gas pool heater would probably click on.

Please show me pictures and explain your systems.

Is there such thing as a heat pump water heater that has a dual fuel mode that uses gas when I program it to? I’d like to use heat pump mode during the warmer months and get the benefit of it lowering house temperature and humidity and switch to gas during colder months. If this doesn’t exist why not

 

[Zwy]

Is there such thing as a heat pump water heater that has a dual fuel mode that uses gas when I program it to? I’d like to use heat pump mode during the warmer months and get the benefit of it lowering house temperature and humidity and switch to gas during colder months.

If this doesn’t exist why not

No reason to produce it.

Hybrid heat pump has both an electric element and a heat pump. If you want gas and the same capacity, simply halve the size and put a gas in series after the hybrid. This allows for any choice of energy for hot water. In my case, I put in the same size (50 gallon) and doubled the hot water capacity.

Come mid winter, if there isn't much PV, I can run solely off the gas water heater.

 

[WorldwideDave]

Can you make a diagram of this? I think you’re saying that you either put in a bypass valve and go around your hot water heater in the winter or you just run the water through the hot water heater and then straight into the gas heater and then out to the house?

 

[Zwy]

Can you make a diagram of this? I think you’re saying that you either put in a bypass valve and go around your hot water heater in the winter or you just run the water through the hot water heater and then straight into the gas heater and then out to the house?

The diagram shown in this link where it says Series option #1 is the same. I did run a 1" copper line between the 2 water heaters with insulation but not sure if that is needed. The supply lines from cold water were always 3/4" copper. If using pex, I would step up the size so the water pressure remains about the same . If I get time, I might shoot a quick video on how it is done.

With the heat pump water heater ahead of the gas, there will always be hot water even with the heat pump water heater turned off. It is no different than running an electric water heater as a dump load ahead of another water heater and pre heating the water using excess power once batteries are full. No need for a bypass, the water will simply run from one water heater outlet into the other water heater inlet. The 2nd water heater outlet feeds the house.

 

[Ampster]

Hybrid heat pump has both an electric element and a heat pump.

Yes, that is what I have and almost all of the time heat pump mode works for me. Instead of a larger tank I raised the temperature and used a mixing valve to that taps do not see the 140 degrees of the tank.
The dual fuel systems in autos are called serial hybrids and years ago, before solar PV I had thermal solar and a natural gas instand hot water system to raise the temperature if the solar tank was not hot enough when hot was demanded. It worke well but was complicated and when I moved to an all electric home my first purchase was a heat pump water heater even before I adde PV solar,

 

[Zwy]

The advantage in my use case was during winter I can switch to the electric element and just use excess PV for preheat and rely on the gas water heater. Using the element would not pull heat from the room the water heater is in if I wanted to solely heat water using the hybrid heat pump water heater.

The hybrid heat pump water heater coupled with the gas water heater allows many options based upon available PV, seasonal weather and needed recovery.

I like options to improve efficiency.

 

[WorldwideDave]

The diagram shown in this link where it says Series option #1 is the same. I did run a 1" copper line between the 2 water heaters with insulation but not sure if that is needed. The supply lines from cold water were always 3/4" copper. If using pex, I would step up the size so the water pressure remains about the same . If I get time, I might shoot a quick video on how it is done.

With the heat pump water heater ahead of the gas, there will always be hot water even with the heat pump water heater turned off. It is no different than running an electric water heater as a dump load ahead of another water heater and pre heating the water using excess power once batteries are full. No need for a bypass, the water will simply run from one water heater outlet into the other water heater inlet. The 2nd water heater outlet feeds the house.

Took me 45 minutes to read that link and wow that is a lot of information. I feel like I have a bachelors degree in plumbing now. Thank you so much for sharing. Very educational.

 

[menchelke]

It goes like this, gas water heater has been in place long before the PV system was installed and worked with no problems. After PV system was up and running, there was excess PV not being used in the off grid system.

Looking for something that would work for capitalizing on the excess PV, it was decided to add an electric hot water heater ahead of the gas water heater. More research reveals the hybrid heat pump water heaters which can be used in heat pump mode, electric 4500W element mode or a combination of both. A water heater that works very well for an off grid PV system that has excess photons collected. Heat pump mode can be used most of the year, the electric element allows for using large amounts of generation in a short period of time and the gas water heater can heat water in times of very low PV production.

`As for cost, this post explains it. Payback will be 2.5 to 3.5 years. Plus, we have 100 gallons of hot water instead of 50 gallons. The heat pump water heater qualifies for the federal energy efficiency tax credit of 30% of the cost. Local utilities might even kick in a rebate reducing payback sooner. If the heat pump water heater lasts 10 years and payback was 2.5 years, at $1.45/gallon propane and 300 gallons per year, I net $3,262.50 over the lifetime of the heat pump water heater. If it lasts longer than 10 years, I net an extra $435 per year. If propane is higher than $1.45/gallon, I net even more. The cost to run the heat pump water heater is $0.00 if excess PV is used to operate it.

The heat pump water heater uses such a small amount of electricity that I am still looking for another use for excess PV generation.

hey can you tell us what model or whatever you have? I just bought some tanked water heaters for an off grid, but I would like to see this hybrid heat pump model you have or bought?

 

[Zwy]

hey can you tell us what model or whatever you have? I just bought some tanked water heaters for an off grid, but I would like to see this hybrid heat pump model you have or bought?

I purchased this one. It is on clearance now and a new model is replacing it. Either one is 30% tax credit eligible under Appliance Energy Efficiency tax credit. Both have wi fi capability and could be controlled thru a home automation system.