Dumb inputs with Orion XS

[TenagaSurya]

I've only just scraped together the big bucks for an Orion XS 50A 12v DC to DC charger to fill my RV (campervan) battery from my old fashioned alternator. Having blown the budget on that, can I save by using "dumb" devices on the input side? I.e. overriding engine shutdown detection, then using a bluesea style switch when not driving to disconnect the Orion's positive input from the alternator/starting battery and switch instead to input from
a) a mains-powered switchmode 12V 50A power supply (approx. $30 instead of finding another $300+ for a Victron 'smart' mains charger);
or when at a campsite:
b) my existing 'dumb' PWM solar charger(s) that would otherwise be prone to overcharging the battery

If it's possible to do this, what are the downsides? Introducing more voltage drop from the alternator as a result of an extra switch? Overriding one of the best Orion XS features (its elaborate engine shutdown detection algorithm)?

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I've only just scraped together the big bucks for an Orion XS 50A 12v DC to DC charger to fill my RV (campervan) battery from my old fashioned alternator. Having blown the budget on that, can I save by using "dumb" devices on the input side? I.e. overriding engine shutdown detection, then using a bluesea style switch when not driving to disconnect the Orion's positive input from the alternator/starting battery and switch instead to input from
a) a mains-powered switchmode 12V 50A power supply (approx. $30 instead of finding another $300+ for a Victron 'smart' mains charger);
or when at a campsite:
b) my existing 'dumb' PWM solar charger(s) that would otherwise be prone to overcharging the battery

If it's possible to do this, what are the downsides? Introducing more voltage drop from the alternator as a result of an extra switch? Overriding one of the best Orion XS features (its elaborate engine shutdown detection algorithm)?

The Orion XS can work as a completely independent device. Your alternator isn't a Victron product, so other viable sources are an option.

Using a PWM SCC as input to the Orion XS is not likely to work. You're using a charger that bases its operation on battery voltage. The XS will not supply a battery voltage to its input terminals, and the SCC will likely not work since it doesn't sense a battery voltage.

A victron (and likely others) MPPT will arbitrarily output its absorption voltage even if a battery is not detected, so I would expect that to work. You might need to manually reduce the XS output to not exceed the input.

 

[HarryN]

This working or not might depend on exactly what van and model year that you have.

If it has customer connection points or not and which ones.

Which PWM solar controller do you have? Bogart or an off brand ?

 

[TenagaSurya]

The Orion XS can work as a completely independent device. Your alternator isn't a Victron product, so other viable sources are an option.

Using a PWM SCC as input to the Orion XS is not likely to work. You're using a charger that bases its operation on battery voltage. The XS will not supply a battery voltage to its input terminals, and the SCC will likely not work since it doesn't sense a battery voltage.

Aha thanks, I see.

A victron (and likely others) MPPT will arbitrarily output its absorption voltage even if a battery is not detected, so I would expect that to work. You might need to manually reduce the XS output to not exceed the input.

I do also have a Renogy MPPT SCC (bought before I read this forum!) but from looking at the manual in the light of the above, I think it also probably wouldn't like the absence of a battery - it has an error code for when it doesn't find an expected voltage on the output side. But in any case the only advantage of connecting it via the Orion would be to have one coordinated charging profile, I guess.

 

[TenagaSurya]

This working or not might depend on exactly what van and model year that you have.

If it has customer connection points or not and which ones.

Which PWM solar controller do you have? Bogart or an off brand ?

Thank you for your reply. It's an old (last century) van, there are are no original connection points. The PWM is an off brand as you say (it pretends to be an MPPT but clearly isn't judging from its dimensions)

 

[HarryN]

Thank you for your reply. It's an old (last century) van, there are are no original connection points. The PWM is an off brand as you say (it pretends to be an MPPT but clearly isn't judging from its dimensions)

Thanks for the answer - definitely helps.

The challenges that I had with the renogy solar charge controllers were:
- It was not so easy to get it to actually use the settings I wanted it to vs what it wanted to do. ( I failed , but some have claimed success )
- The standby power draw was surprisingly high - and it just kept on using significant power even at night

I am aware of these new victron units, but have no experience.

Was your goal to make it turn on when the engine starts via higher voltage, a relay turning on the power path ?

This is a US fishing supply store, but it might give you some ideas of what is on the market in general.

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/browse?terms=lvd

I have also used some of these inpower units to trigger charging in a van, but I am assuming that the victron unit is programmable ?

Low Voltage Disconnect Archives | InPower

Power Distribution and Battery Control. Avoid dead batteries and expensive towing with automatic shutdown control to prevent excessive battery drain from vehicle loads.

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