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DYI 280ah LiFePo4 with heat sink

svConcordia

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Building a 280AH 12-volt house bank that will reside year-round inside a sailboat dry-stored in Puerto Penasco, Mexico (northern most section of the Sea of Cortez). As summer temperatures are routinely 100+ degree temperatures, I'm exploring cooling options. One consideration is to build a battery box that would consist of cladding the ends and the bottom of the four cells with aluminum heat sink (1/2" fins). The heat sink clad sides would be would be covered by an 1/4 to 3/8 " aluminum plate. Bottom would rest on the plywood shelf. On one end, I would fabricate a fiberglass cowling, with two 12 volt computer fans connected to a temperature switch.

Thoughts?


 
if you are on a boat, it is easy to get water to refresh the batteries.
Since salt water is not good for anything, you could use a mineral oil bath for the batteries, and a small heat exchanger.
 
if you get water, you can even use a peltier module to make cool water when you get sun power in excess.
one one side you have a salt water circuit to cool a peltier element, and on the other side you have the cool water (or mineral oil).
on ebay you find all that for a few dollar.
 
I was under the impression that healthy LIFEPO4 cells are generally within a few degrees of the ambient temperature unless subjected to high C rates.

If the heat source is the ambient air temperature, I'm not sure you would gain anything from using heatsinks.

The advice I have heard for the marine crowd is to keep your batteries below the waterline and not right next to the engine compartment if possible. I would image any type of thermal bridging you could concoct between the batteries and the water (as simple as just mounting them flush with an exterior wall, or something more complex) or some sort of heat exchanger would probably do much more than any heatsink could.

edit: are you in an environment where there are big temperature swings between day and night or is it more of a tropical constantly hot type climate? If it is the former, any type of thermal mass should help keep temps lower in the heat of the day (and warmer at the coldest part of the night), if it is the latter thermal mass wouldn't be that useful.
 
"dry stored boat" - so you want to keep the batteries cool while in storage and when the boat is in the water? I agree with another that heat sinks / fans will not actively cool (cool below ambient temps) in this environment. Using the sea as a heat sink I like, but if you want to cool while in storage, this will not work.

I'm looking into something similar with a stationary outdoor off-grid system with LiFePO4 in South Georgia, where it is hot and humid. My main concern is the ambient temperatures being 100 F +, and that environment being taxing on the batteries, shortening their life. My research indicated a few common ways to actively cool electrical enclosures: pressurized air with venturi thing to suck-out the hot air & keep cold air in (energy intensive & need air compressor - so probably not good for us), peltier (my research indicates this is not as energy efficient as traditional vapor compression cooling (like refrigerators and A/C units), and traditional vapor compression cooling. I am also new to this, but for now, I'm leaning toward traditional vapor compression. I'm thinking I can put the batteries in a old mini-fridge I've got, then do a temperature control loop to turn the fridge off/on to keep battery temps closer to the ideal / laboratory 25 C / 77 F. I'm not so worried about freezing - you probably aren't either. I don't know if it's overkill, but the literature and all indicate to me that exposing them to 100F+ temperatures will shorten life, and if active cooling gets another few years of life out of the batteries, it may be worth it, it seems.

If wanting to cool while in storage and grid power available, peltier may be of interest to you. Peltier cooling I think is cheaper up-front than vapor compression/expansion systems and easily scaled (to small battery compartments) - for me I've got a high value put on energy efficiency - that's mainly why I'm leaning towards vapor compression / mini fridge..
 
"dry stored boat" - so you want to keep the batteries cool while in storage and when the boat is in the water? I agree with another that heat sinks / fans will not actively cool (cool below ambient temps) in this environment. Using the sea as a heat sink I like, but if you want to cool while in storage, this will not work.

I'm looking into something similar with a stationary outdoor off-grid system with LiFePO4 in South Georgia, where it is hot and humid. My main concern is the ambient temperatures being 100 F +, and that environment being taxing on the batteries, shortening their life. My research indicated a few common ways to actively cool electrical enclosures: pressurized air with venturi thing to suck-out the hot air & keep cold air in (energy intensive & need air compressor - so probably not good for us), peltier (my research indicates this is not as energy efficient as traditional vapor compression cooling (like refrigerators and A/C units), and traditional vapor compression cooling. I am also new to this, but for now, I'm leaning toward traditional vapor compression. I'm thinking I can put the batteries in a old mini-fridge I've got, then do a temperature control loop to turn the fridge off/on to keep battery temps closer to the ideal / laboratory 25 C / 77 F. I'm not so worried about freezing - you probably aren't either. I don't know if it's overkill, but the literature and all indicate to me that exposing them to 100F+ temperatures will shorten life, and if active cooling gets another few years of life out of the batteries, it may be worth it, it seems.

If wanting to cool while in storage and grid power available, peltier may be of interest to you. Peltier cooling I think is cheaper up-front than vapor compression/expansion systems and easily scaled (to small battery compartments) - for me I've got a high value put on energy efficiency - that's mainly why I'm leaning towards vapor compression / mini fridge..

I just looked up Peltier cooling, I think its the same tech used in cheaper 12v fridges, yeah? Any idea what sort of wattage would be required to keep your batteries 20 or so degrees below ambient (i.e. 80f at 100f ambient)? From what I remember fridges built using this tech struggle to keep things cool and definitely don't keep them cold in a hot car. But for batteries 'cool' would be more than enough, so the question becomes how much energy does it take.
 
I just looked up Peltier cooling, I think its the same tech used in cheaper 12v fridges, yeah? Any idea what sort of wattage would be required to keep your batteries 20 or so degrees below ambient (i.e. 80f at 100f ambient)? From what I remember fridges built using this tech struggle to keep things cool and definitely don't keep them cold in a hot car. But for batteries 'cool' would be more than enough, so the question becomes how much energy does it take.
I've used Peltier cooling before. They work very good. They work too good though in high humid areas. Now you have the problem of condensation.

But I was dealing with 80°C and 90°C areas and the things I was cooling had zero tolerance for water.
100+°F is only around 35°C to 45°C range. I think the simple large heatsinks will be more than adequate for heat removal. And if not a low/med/high fan can be added, but Peltier cooling does take a rather lot of amps to be effective. In this scenario, I think it would be way overkill, and simply using too much power just to make the batteries on the cool side. A small 2 in x 2 in Peltier can easily draw 50watts and can zoom to 300watt practically instantly if the temp is warm enough.
 
So I did a little research into the location you are storing your boat. Looks like you have a decent range between high and low daily temps.

average-temperature-mexico-puerto-penasco-fahrenheit.png


That being the case, a number of creative passive options are possible. One of the principles of passive solar building is to use thermal mass to regulate temperature. A properly designed system will absorb heat in the warmer part of the day and release it slowly throughout the night, and cool off at night and release that coolness throughout the day, the overall effect being that the daily temperature extremes will equalize more or less.

Your warmest month is August (avg high ~97 avg low ~73, avg daylight 13.5 hrs). This isn't ideal but not horrible. This concept works best with big temperature swings, and an average between high and low that is closer to comfortable. But theoretically, using some combination of thermal mass and possibly insulation you could keep your batteries about 10-12 degrees cooler in the heat of the day. That gets you close to the upper limit (30c/86f) of the healthy temperature range for lifepo4.

You wouldn't necessarily need to add any thermal mass either, if you could locate your batteries on top of your water tanks, or some other massive, cool, object.

In practice the math is a bit more complicated, you have to take hourly temperature into consideration and also consider interior vs exterior temperature. But the principle is the same.
 
100+°F is only around 35°C to 45°C range. I think the simple large heatsinks will be more than adequate for heat removal.

Sometimes I'm a dummy when it comes to physics/chemistry so I'm probably missing something, but how is it possible for heatsinks and fans to bring the temperature below ambient?

Doesn't a heatsink only work if the air temperature is lower than the temperature of the thing being cooled, in fact if the air temperature was higher than the thing with the heatsink attached to it, wouldn't it be a "coolsink" (acting in the opposite manner as a heatsink).

As I understand it a 'heatsink' is a facilitator and accelerator of heat transfer, but is dependent on temperature differential for cooling/heating ability.
 
I just looked up Peltier cooling, I think its the same tech used in cheaper 12v fridges, yeah? Any idea what sort of wattage would be required to keep your batteries 20 or so degrees below ambient (i.e. 80f at 100f ambient)? From what I remember fridges built using this tech struggle to keep things cool and definitely don't keep them cold in a hot car. But for batteries 'cool' would be more than enough, so the question becomes how much energy does it take.
12V minifridges - yes, some of them use peltier. The fancy / good 12V/24V fridges that Will P. recommends on his other website are NOT peltier coolers to my understanding. They I think actually have vapor-compression kind of technology - just as a traditional fridge would - and I think the reasoning for this is because it's more energy efficient than peltier. Peltiers are fundamentally limited I do believe more so than vap-compression in that they can only achieve a certain delta T - so you are limited to cooling only X or Y degrees below ambient, whereas vap-compression you could get down to below freezing when it's 110 F outside. Peltiers I think are limited to 20 or 40 F, depending on the actual ambient temperature (different peltier performance at different ambient temps). You can stack peltiers (multiple peltiers) to achieve more cooling, however.

I took a cheap 12V peltier fridge and rigged up a compartment out of an old styrofoam cooler. 12V fridge was affixed to the top of the cooler and sealed-up such that the 12V peltier could cool the approximately 1 cubic foot volume that was the styrofoam cooler. styrofoam cooler then placed inside of an insulated dog house where I used hair driver to keep ambient temp (in the dog house) 110 F+. I gave power to the peltier with temp control loop to try to get to 25 C / 77 F and watched the temps as hairdrier was applied. An hour after starting to heat-up the doghouse, the temp increased inside of the 1 cubic foot volume to 27 C, after which the temp controller kicked-on and stayed on, trying to cool the volume with peltier back to 25 C / 77 F. For the next 6 hours, dog house temp I kept at 110 F+, and the 1 ft cubed volume stayed at 80 - 81 F for the duration. I think the system was at steady state, so I concluded that it was possible to cool such a volume to ~ 81 F when it's 110 F outside. Peltier power consumption I measured to be 35W. This was 1 peltier with heat sink and fan - 35W to run it all.

So I concluded 35W of peltier could likely adequately cool such a 1 cubic foot volume to 25 C / 77 F, if it was 100F - 105F outside.

I did something similar with a mini-fridge (but ambient temps were ~70 F instead of 110 F. I think fridge is about 4 cubic feet in volume. Inside and outside of fridge started at 70 F. After starting the fridge, the compressor ran for 27 min to get the temp in the fridge down to 49 F. While compressor on, fridge consumed ~ 115W. After the initial cool-down to get the fridge to setpoint, I just let it cycle on and off as-needed to maintain the temperature inside of the fridge. The next few hours it cycled a handful of times, and I concluded I could maintain about a 20 F dT (fridge 49 F ambient 69-70 F) with 15 W on-average of power. So the fridge would actually only run for like 5 minutes, then it would hit setpoint and turn off for like 30 minutes plus. 1 complete cycle I said was about 37 min. 5 min/37 min = 0.13 and some change. So that's 13% or whatever it was that the fridge was actually on and consuming power. 115W * 0.13 and some change gave me 15W.

Insulation I'm sure was better in the fridge than my cheap styrofoam cooler. And ambient temperatures were different between the 2 trials. But the test confirms what I've been reading - and that's that vap-compression is more energy efficient than peltier. Surge loads are of course to be considered - no surge loads for peltier, which is a plus if system size constraints.

so in summary, this is what I concluded / learned:
peltier consuming 35W continuous can maintain 1 cubic foot of volume to 80-81 F with 110F ambient temps. peltier had heat sink and fan too. 35W accounts for all of it.
compressor/mini-fridge can maintain 49 F with 69-70 F ambient temps of a 4 - 5 cubic foot volume with 15W on-average power. Fridge only needed to run a few minutes per hour (5 minutes out of every 37 minutes) to maintain temps.
THEREFORE - fridge is probably better in-terms of energy efficiency.
 
Sometimes I'm a dummy when it comes to physics/chemistry so I'm probably missing something, but how is it possible for heatsinks and fans to bring the temperature below ambient?

Doesn't a heatsink only work if the air temperature is lower than the temperature of the thing being cooled, in fact if the air temperature was higher than the thing with the heatsink attached to it, wouldn't it be a "coolsink" (acting in the opposite manner as a heatsink).

As I understand it a 'heatsink' is a facilitator and accelerator of heat transfer, but is dependent on temperature differential for cooling/heating ability.
I agree - convection and conduction rate of heat transfer with heat sinks is zero if no difference in temperatures. So can't cool below ambient.
 
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So I concluded 35W of peltier could likely adequately cool such a 1 cubic foot volume to 25 C / 77 F, if it was 100F - 105F outside.

That's actually not nearly as bad as I expected. But like your test data shows, still much less efficient than a compressor fridge.

so in summary, this is what I concluded / learned:
peltier consuming 35W continuous can maintain 1 cubic foot of volume to 80-81 F with 110F ambient temps. peltier had heat sink and fan too. 35W accounts for all of it.
compressor/mini-fridge can maintain 49 F with 69-70 F ambient temps of a 4 - 5 cubic foot volume with 15W on-average power. Fridge only needed to run a few minutes per hour (5 minutes out of every 37 minutes) to maintain temps.
THEREFORE - fridge is probably better in-terms of energy efficiency.

Good work! Its nice to see some real world testing and data--part of the reason I love communities like this.
 
Sometimes I'm a dummy when it comes to physics/chemistry so I'm probably missing something, but how is it possible for heatsinks and fans to bring the temperature below ambient?

Doesn't a heatsink only work if the air temperature is lower than the temperature of the thing being cooled, in fact if the air temperature was higher than the thing with the heatsink attached to it, wouldn't it be a "coolsink" (acting in the opposite manner as a heatsink).

As I understand it a 'heatsink' is a facilitator and accelerator of heat transfer, but is dependent on temperature differential for cooling/heating ability.

Nothing can cool less than ambient, other than refrigerant.

A heat sink directs the heat that is generated at the source. This causes the heat to flow away from the source.

If the tip of the heat sink (the pointy end) is cooler than the base (the flat end), the laws of thermodynamics kick in and the heat move towards the cool. It's all about the "surface area".

How does a heat sink work?:
Peltier Effect:

ElectroBOOM is the coolest:
 
That's actually not nearly as bad as I expected. But like your test data shows, still much less efficient than a compressor fridge.



Good work! Its nice to see some real world testing and data--part of the reason I love communities like this.
Thank you sir! I learn from y'all and Will, so yeah - share the knowledge.
 
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Hi....As respects limit, the LFP pack has 270ah limit. The entirety of that is hypothetically usable however it isn't astute to do as such consistently in the event that you need a long life from the battery. As a dependable guideline LFP is for the most part figured to have about double the usable limit of lead corrosive for a given named limit size. Clearly there are various factors in all that yet the thing that matters will be generally critical for those cycling their batteries day by day when, on account of the long assimilation phase of lead corrosive, it may not be feasible to return to more than 80-85% condition of charge.
 
Why not insulate the batteries while in storage, and if there is power, power vent based on outside temperature, or a dusk till dawn function.
As DZL was starting to say above?
Have you run a logging temp in the space to see what the actual ambient is night to do against outside temps?
Maybe you can pay extra to have the sailboat out of direct sun under hard cover, which will also preserve your lines and other bits from UV damage as well as lower the temp in the boat.
 
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